Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($482)
Hero ($719)
SB ($609)
BB ($684)
UTG ($199.50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $18</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $58</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $192</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $482</font>, Hero???

Here's what I've observed about my opponents:

MP: A solid TAG player who seemed to play smart. I don't remember him getting grossly out of line. After 141 hands, I had his stats at 23/16 (with a post flop aggression factor of 3.3).

SB: Tight and very aggressive player capable of making moves. After 305 hands, I had his stats at 24/19 (with a post flop aggression factor of 5.2).

So, what do I do? Never fold KK preflop, right?

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

I'm folding here.

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

when pigs fly in my Mr. Burns voice. Def looks like a fold to me.

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

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when pigs fly in my Mr. Burns voice. Def looks like a fold to me.

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Lol. That may be my favorite Simpson's episode. I want to hire Mr. Burns as my poker coach.

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

Which of you guys would not fold this?

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

In theory i think i would fold. In game is another story.

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

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In theory i think i would fold. In game is another story.

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Usually when people post their KK preflop hands, they get railed on for trying to find ways to fold KK too much. Thus, I've just sort of adopted the belief that I should never fold KK preflop.

Maybe a better question might be, "When was the last time you folded KK preflop?"

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

Yeah, this is definitely a fold.

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

Who said that the 4th bet is always Aces?... Anyways..

Considering the action i would puke and probably fold, and i never fold KK.

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

i wouldnt fold here

the 600nl game plays too crazy to ever be laying down kk pre for 1 buyin. u will see AK/QQ here enough to justify yer call. only way this gets interesting is if yer 1200+ deep

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

guys,

theres a lot of f'cking money in that pot

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

Don't listen to these nits

There's enough dead money in this pot that you practically have odds to race against AA.. round up and gamble!

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don't listen to these nits

There's enough dead money in this pot that you practically have odds to race against AA.. round up and gamble!

[/ QUOTE ]

aren't we getting like 2:1 or something [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

He's saying that you have to give one of them aces quite a bit not to get odds on calling, but I'm not sure. In aggressive games he may be right but this could be one time when folding kings is OK.

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

I was actually just trying to be funny.

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

ahah lol - yeah that was funny.

no wonder i was confused -- lost my sense of humour somewhere today.....

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

I fold here.

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

I fold this.

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

By the time SB pushes all in as well you will only be getting like just over 2 to 1. I dont think there is any possibility that at least one of these players doesnt have Aces, esp. MP he is only in for 18 and after raise and r/r he pushes - you have to be very bad to not have AA here (some may with KK) but AK/QQ etc. is suicide. Plus you have said both opponents are TAG and providing they arent donkeys then they arent pushing here with any less.

Im pretty sure there isnt a scernario where this can be a +EV case if one has AA (closest is like 21% if they both have AA i think), so I fold.

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

I'm not folding here

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

foldy folderson

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

I folded them a week ago preflop, and i think this is an EZ fold without reads on MP being a donk, AceCR9, wow, your getting stacked here then

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

Looks likea fold to me too.
People very rarely go crazy in multiway reraised preflop pots.

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

This is a fold.
Yellowsub I think your off, I mean MP is decent and he's just not doing this with anything less than KK. And then again, SB 4 bet range is probably KK+ too. It's just retarded to call here.

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

Sb might be squeezing if he sees you as position abuser and MP has like 75BB, so he might have QQ-AK here as well.
It's a tough one and i think it's close enough decision that you don't lose value by doing either.
So, i'd say what i do here depends on my mood and how well i've been running lately , since it's probably neutral EV.

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

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This is a fold.
SB 4 bet range is probably KK+ too.

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Come on. What games do you play in? Unless OP is a huge nit, any decent player capable of making moves has a much wider range here.

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

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"When was the last time you folded KK preflop?"

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here

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't listen to these nits

There's enough dead money in this pot that you practically have odds to race against AA.. round up and gamble!

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aren't we getting like 2:1 or something [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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If we are getting 2:1 its an easy call i think. He only has to have AK, QQ a small percentage of the time to make this call correct.

Anyone who folds: please tell me ur screennames - i'll be happy to push u around.

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

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Sb might be squeezing if he sees you as position abuser and MP has like 75BB, so he might have QQ-AK here as well.
It's a tough one and i think it's close enough decision that you don't lose value by doing either.
So, i'd say what i do here depends on my mood and how well i've been running lately , since it's probably neutral EV.

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AHAHAHA

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

In the actual hand, I did want to puke... but, I also kept hearing a little voice, "Never fold KK preflop.... never fold KK preflop..."

At the time, I thought SB could be squeezing as well. I was more than happy to get it all in against SB. It was MP that got me thinking. Are there chances that MP is playing back at what he suspects is a squeezing SB? Also, I'm fairly certain MP came to the table with a full buyin and had lost a little. I did not see MP tilting on previous hands, but doesn't this increase his chances of pushing back at SB out of some minor frustration? Couldn't he have a hand like AQ or 77 and just be tired of people pulling "TWP"-type crap?

FWIW, I was probably showing a TAG game as well--something around 25/15. One other note: MP did not push all in instantly. A little bit of time passed on his turn before he pushed. Is it possible these players are doing some kind of warped 3rd, 4th, or 5th level thinking?

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

There is too much going on in this hand to fold. As you say, he may be squeezing the SB, and KK is a possibility. You can't lay this hand with all these possibilities.

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

well now that I know you guys are all nits and won't felt KK for 100bb 5 handed vs a very strong line I need to start changing some things up.

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

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well now that I know you guys are all nits and won't felt KK for 100bb 5 handed vs a very strong line I need to start changing some things up.

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That's what I'm thinking. I mean if MP knows I will fold everything except AA, and suspects SB is getting fancy, then isn't it +EV for MP to push with anything?

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

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"When was the last time you folded KK preflop?"

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here

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JKratzer:

Interesting. Is this the only time you can remember folding KK preflop? Also, what would you have done if you had been min. raised by your second opponent after the all-in bet by your first opponent? Do you still fold?

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

It's not exploitable if you don't get exploited (got that from someone in HSNL) seriously, how are you gonna know if your opp is thinking on the nth level or not.

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

1- i guarantee you none of you people actually fold KK here
2- what yellowsub said

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

You guys know that if you fold whichever 2p2er made you fold is going to post a thread about the hand in MSNL and will have like a [censored] suited connector asking "IS THIS SPEW?!"

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

there s no folding with KK at any time at a 6 max table. push it quick

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

[ QUOTE ]
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Sb might be squeezing if he sees you as position abuser and MP has like 75BB, so he might have QQ-AK here as well.
It's a tough one and i think it's close enough decision that you don't lose value by doing either.
So, i'd say what i do here depends on my mood and how well i've been running lately , since it's probably neutral EV.

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AHAHAHA

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Wow, thank god you showed up in this thread and cleared the whole issue.
Now OP knows what to do next time he has KK and faces 2 reraises.

P.S. Ban

Re: Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?
 

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1- i guarantee you none of you people actually fold KK here
2- what yellowsub said

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wow is that wrong, i know PLENTY that would fold, myself included