Preflop live: QQ in SB
 

This may be very basic, but I wanted to get some feedback. Standard loose fullring 10-20 live with 3 tricky players, 3 LPA fish, 2 TAGs.

2 tricky players limp, 2 fish limp, TAG limps on button. I'm in SB with QQ.

My line was to raise. Afterward, TAG who I'm friendly with comments on how it's a marginally bad play since I'm advertising my hand to tricky players and bloating a pot for fish to draw to.

What's your line here? I play this generally 2 ways.

- Raise preflop and cbet most flops unless both A and K come up.
- Call preflop and C/R a J-lower flop.

Assuming the right play is to raise here, how small of a PP do I pop with in the SB?

Re: Preflop live: QQ in SB
 

It is correct to raise here, and I don't think it is close to marginal, you are way ahead here... like always.

I bet every flop except for maybe 5s6s7s when my Q's are red, or the like.

I think 99 is as about small of a PP I raise from the SB with this many limpers

Re: Preflop live: QQ in SB
 

Wow that's some bad advice. Although typical for live players. Your equity here is so huge that collecting another bet from everyone even though you're bloating the pot is 100% correct. Please take this to the SS forum.

Re: Preflop live: QQ in SB
 

i wish i could advertise AA every hand...

in all seriousness i've seen folks who do this,limp in the sb or check in the bb with a big hand and i still don't get it...

just play poker and be prepared to get sucked out on...

Re: Preflop live: QQ in SB
 

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Wow that's some bad advice.

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Re: Preflop live: QQ in SB
 

Yeah, when I was explaining my line, that was my reasoning. Get that money in while I've got the best hand. If the flop kills me I can dump my hand, but otherwise I pick up all those extra bets. Seemed really basic to me, but I wasn't absolutely sure.

Re: Preflop live: QQ in SB
 

You played it right. Sounds like your TAG friend wanted to see a cheap flop but with Q's in the SB....I don't think so.

I somewhat agree with him on the "advertising your hand" bit but that would depend on your image & how perceptive your opponents are.

Re: Preflop live: QQ in SB
 

[ QUOTE ]
You played it right. Sounds like your TAG friend wanted to see a cheap flop but with Q's in the SB....I don't think so.

I somewhat agree with him on the "advertising your hand" bit but that would depend on your image & how perceptive your opponents are.

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Advertising your big pair with all these limpers is not necessarily a bad thing. Collect the bets and then collect on your fold equity.

Re: Preflop live: QQ in SB
 

You should mentally thank the TAG for him informing you he's a live nitfish.

Re: Preflop live: QQ in SB
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You played it right. Sounds like your TAG friend wanted to see a cheap flop but with Q's in the SB....I don't think so.

I somewhat agree with him on the "advertising your hand" bit but that would depend on your image & how perceptive your opponents are.

[/ QUOTE ]

Advertising your big pair with all these limpers is not necessarily a bad thing. Collect the bets and then collect on your fold equity.

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I know it's not a bad thing. Never said it was. I was just agreeing that his hand would be clear to a thinking player. He could definitely capitalize on that later.

Re: Preflop live: QQ in SB
 

I definitely raise this; you have too much equity not to. Go ahead and collect while you're ahead (no pun intended.)

I would rethink your friend being "TAG".

Re: Preflop live: QQ in SB
 

as long as you have a positive ev you raise. QQ is a must raise.

other clear raisers are AA, KK, JJ, TT, AK, AKS, AQS, AJS, ATs, KJs, KQs, and there are others too. that is a short list of hand to raise with.

you either have a big pair, or a hand that plays well multiway on my above list. you certainly have a much better then 1 in 6 chance of winning with those hands, therefore, you raise.

Re: Preflop live: QQ in SB
 

read ssh it will be very helpful.

Re: Preflop live: QQ in SB
 

if that many players are in the pot, many are not thinking players. they don't all have "reasonable" hands. punish the limpers. punish the trash they play.

Re: Preflop live: QQ in SB
 

I never really take any of the poker advice people give me at the table.
I do say 'yeh, i see...' thoughtfully and stroke my chin like they have offered me deep piece of wisdom. Let them tell you how they play and think is +ev.

Re: Preflop live: QQ in SB
 

I've read SSH and HE for adv players. I think my main concern there, was that I'm dealing with some tricky regulars and my preflop raising range from the SB and BB are pretty tight for that many callers. My only real uneasiness was with defining my hand preflop fairly clearly.

I've been trying to widen my PFR range for the blinds beyond the TT+ and AQs+, but whenever I do, it seems like a leak.

Re: Preflop live: QQ in SB
 

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Afterward, TAG who I'm friendly with comments on how it's a marginally bad play since I'm advertising my hand to tricky players and bloating a pot for fish to draw to.

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All fish I have played with are drawing on both the flop and the turn to gutshot straights without raises pre-flop... They also play bottom and middle pair the same way. I think your TAG friend is wrong by a wide margin. You are making it profitable for players like him to draw on the flop and maybe the turn. Otherwise you are building a big pot where you have the best hand (35%-40% winner against 5 or 6). You will only win 1 of 3 or so but that is true whether you raise or not.

Re: Preflop live: QQ in SB
 

i don't understand what your trying to write. if your concern if that 2 tricky opponents limped, it doesn't matter when you have either the 3ed or 4th best limit hold em hand there is. if your worried about defining your hand i am really lost. that many players in any pot shows me that many are clueless. what types of hands do most have? the answer with so many in a pot is unusal and poor hands. collecting 6 extra bets pre flop is worth any possible reason not to raise. if you raise, do you think your clueless opponents "say oh he has a big pair". i doubt it. your raise can be made correctly with a wide variety of hands. if you are considerating not rasing here the i think you should step down in limits and do more work on your game. letting people take the flop for one bet, or even considerating it, is very incorrect. good luck.

Re: Preflop live: QQ in SB
 

I guess raising is fine, its just a tough hand to play from the lead over so many flops. It has been so long since I have played this game type that my head hurts thinking about it.

The Nit in my doesnt like creating a huge pot preflop with QQ here peflop.

If you smooth call where do you think the first bet is going to come from when the board is T82? That's kind of important.