Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

What hand does reraiser, MP3, have.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Button (t3095)
Hero (t2675)
BB (t2065)
UTG (t2505)
UTG+1 (t1370)
MP1 (t6225)
MP2 (t1955)
MP3 (t2180)
CO (t2770)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to t120</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises to t480

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

hands that are not folding to a shove.

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

With no reads I'll say QQ+ and a steal probably won't work.

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

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With no reads I'll say QQ+ and a steal probably won't work.

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Well I wasn't planning on making a move with JTs, but I had a specific read on MP3's hand based on both players' bet sizes.

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

Precisely QQ.

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

I was gonna say QQ as well.

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

I'll third that; QQ

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

MP1 has KK

MP3 Has *Edit AK/QQ

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

I thought AK, which was what the reraiser had. You have an early position raise to 4xBB and a reraise to 4xraise. AK or QQ is about all the reraise could be, if you assume a rational but straightforward reraiser.

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

would've been my 2nd guess. Bold of loc0loc0 calling out MP1s hand after just one standard raise [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. Although if we got to see MP3s hand I guess there's a decent chance MP1 does have KK.

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

The 4 time reraise has intendings not to play a flop. Wich would indicate a AK.

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

QQ also

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

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The 4 time reraise has intendings not to play a flop. Wich would indicate a AK.

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lol

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

Lets put it a otherway.

Wich hands would he 4xR preflop? beside QQ/AK?

That was indeed pretty lame thinking of me [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

I think this could be JJ with many players too, no?

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

hmm could be maybe but if he didnt wanna see a flop wouldnt he bet more ?
like 500-600

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

I would RR QQ to 4xRaisers NON AA KK raise.

I want him to flop a Q with his AQ.

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

[ QUOTE ]
Lets put it a otherway.

Wich hands would he 4xR preflop? beside QQ/AK?

That was indeed pretty lame thinking of me [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
In general, 4x raises in the early levels can mean a lot of things. On Stars, I've seen 4x raises to generally mean PPs 88-QQ, AQ+.

I lol'ed at putting him on _exactly_ AK, how often can you put a villian on one specific hand with any certainty? Very, very rarely [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

its against the poker law not to raise 4xBB in MP with AK.

didn't you know that soulman. Call yourself a player. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

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I lol'ed at putting him on _exactly_ AK, how often can you put a villian on one specific hand with any certainty?

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But isn't that what the thread is all about...putting him on a hand...the op didn't say 'range'.

I was thinking QQ or KK though...which is two hands...but since QQ has been chosen several times already I'll just say KK.

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lets put it a otherway.

Wich hands would he 4xR preflop? beside QQ/AK?

That was indeed pretty lame thinking of me [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
In general, 4x raises in the early levels can mean a lot of things. On Stars, I've seen 4x raises to generally mean PPs 88-QQ, AQ+.

I lol'ed at putting him on _exactly_ AK, how often can you put a villian on one specific hand with any certainty? Very, very rarely [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
The first raiser raises 4xBB, meaning AQ-AK, 88-QQ. The reraiser reraises to 4x the initial raise. This means he has the original raiser's range crushed, but he doesn't have a big pair. Hence AK or QQ. I thought AK, because people tend to reraise big with AK.

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

Crap, I really need to better my reading comprehension. I thought Loc0Loc0 was talking about the initial raise. Never mind me in this thread then, that's what I get for quickly browsing in between work tasks [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

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This means he has the original raiser's range crushed, but he doesn't have a big pair.

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Just FMI, so would you expect a 3X rr with a big pair?

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

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[ QUOTE ]
This means he has the original raiser's range crushed, but he doesn't have a big pair.

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Just FMI, so would you expect a 3X rr with a big pair?

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Yeh, from typical donks. Or maybe a miniraise with a big pair.

I usually raise raise to 3x initial reraise with whatever, unless I am pushing or pot committing myself. If I have AK, AQ, a middle pp, or a suited gapper or high cards as a move, I want it to look just like a big pair.

I lot of people reraise less with big pairs, not wanting anyone to fold and more with AK (or AQ or 99-QQ), not minding taking the pot.

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

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If I have AK, AQ, a middle pp, or a suited gapper or high cards as a move, I want it to look just like a big pair.

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Thanks. But just to take it a step further...would you ever rr 4x with a big pair...to make it look like AK? Or is your goal, in general here, to just not give away any info at all by raising the same amount whatever you have?

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

Straightforward poker: I think MP1 could have a lot of hands AK down to AJ, ATs; KQ or KJ, AA down to 99. MP3 the reraiser could have AA down to QQ or AK, maybe JJ or TT knowing to have position.

Re: Hand reading excercize preflop, Stuper
 

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if you assume a rational but straightforward reraiser.

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Big mistake.

Also a lot of people standard open to 4x so any hand they are raising or reraising they will raise t120/ t480.