10k Withdrawals and Government
 

I have heard that withdrawing 10k leads to some sort of Government notification after post 9/11 legislation. I do not, however, know if that matters at all or not or even who get's notified and what they are told. If I pay taxes, is that something I shouldn't care at all about, or do you try to avoid having a "flag" shown up for no reason?

Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

it's actually 3k now.

Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

What is 3k? Where did you hear this? WHAT does it mean and WHAT are the implications? Is it something to care at all about?

Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

Does anyone know if this is something to even care about? What are its implications? What exactly does it all?

Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

Also, do you receive any kind of notification if this happens, or you have no idea?

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If you pay your taxes you have nothing to worry about, no matter the sums of money you're moving. Report it, sleep easy.

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I would still like to know if anyone knows the answers to my specific questions..

Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

Withdrawing over 10k means that your bank must file a SOA, suspicion of activity ,form on you and submit it to the irs. They may also do it on their own for other amounts but this almost never happens since it is extra work for the emlployees.

Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

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I would still like to know if anyone knows the answers to my specific questions..

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Well, you have been informed, so everytime you move $3K or more it is reported. No, they never send you a notice.

File your taxes properly and sleep easy.

-Tom

Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

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If you pay your taxes you have nothing to worry about, no matter the sums of money you're moving. Report it, sleep easy.

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Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

i don't think the 3k thing is right, i think you are wrong.

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I think the 3K is for cash deposits only and the 10K is for wire/check type deposits but I could be wrong.

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I think the 3K is for cash deposits only and the 10K is for wire/check type deposits but I could be wrong.

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The answer is SOA's are filled out whenever the tellers want them to be filled out, even if it's $10.

Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

If you take ANY action to avoid the reporting requirements, it is a felony. If you "structure" transactions -- deliberately always move under certain amounts to avoid triggering the report -- it is a felony money laundering offense called structuring and it's pretty easy to see if you are guilty. You leave a paper trail every time you move money. So move the amount you need or want, be it $20,000 or $20.

I've had lots of reports filed on me over the years. No big deal. It's pretty easy for me to prove the source of the cash though, as I was a well-known player in my area for a number of years. If most of your cash was earned online, I imagine that you can still prove the source of the cash is not illegal drugs or another illegal enterprise. Just keep good records. If the cash is from illegal enterprise, knock it off and see an attorney.

The law goes back to the Reagan era, not 911, although it is popular for banks etc. to pretend that these days you are helping the war on terror and it's something about the Patriot Act. But the legislation was passed in the 80s, and these reports have been going out on you for years and years before 911 if you dealt in cash.

Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

While this is true, $3,000 is a guideline I've heard suggested so that reporters don't have to use their imaginations or indulge in private vendettas.
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The answer is SOA's are filled out whenever the tellers want them to be filled out, even if it's $10.

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Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

Just as clarification from someone who works in a bank the threshold for reporting cash transactions is 10000.01 it is called currency transaction reporting or an "atchley" attempting to avoid the reporting can be prosecuted as a felony. The 3000.01 threshold referred to earlier is in reference to monetary instrument logging this refers to converting cash into some sort of monetary instrument I.E. stored value cards official bank checks money orders etc. Suspicious activity is typically filed as a S.A.R or Suspicious Activity Report. These reports first go to the banks security department and then onto the proper authorities. I could not ever imagine any type of activity for 10 dollars that would generate a Suspicious activity report unless it was repeatedly changing Counterfeit bills.

*edit for clarifications* while small value SAR's are not common filing an SAR because an individual changed his mind not to make a transaction due to reporting requirements is very common* also almost all banks have systems in place to track attempts at structuring transactions by "splitting" larger transactions into smaller transactions or I cant stress enough not to attempt this you will get caught and its not fun. end edit*

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i don't think the 3k thing is right, i think you are wrong.




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He's right. 10K gets reported for cash transactions, and 3K gets reported for wire transfers.

Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

My cashouts from poker sites are usually in the area of 5k-9k. I'm not keeping it in amounts like this to "structure", its just that those are the amounts that are most convenient for me to withdraw.

I pay my taxes, so I shouldn't have to worry about anything right?

Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

Exactly, while repeated cashouts near the 10k threshhold may rouse suspicion, if you are not intentionally structuring the deposits to avoid reporting and are paying taxes you have nothing to worry about.

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Yeah, right. I would not want to stand in front of a jury of my peers and explain why I never needed in excess of 9K. You never buy a car, never put a down payment on property, hell, never got dental work or jewelry in excess of $10K. Well, good on you, but I think the logical explanation is that if a person is repeatedly making transactions below the reportable limit yet "somehow just by coincidence" never makes any transactions above the limit, he's guilty guilty guilty.

You guys think the Money Laundering Act of 1986 and the Patriot Act are about...taxes? They are about money laundering done by drug cartels and terrorists. They are not about taxes. Yes, by all means, you should be on good terms with IRS, but you still aren't allowed to structure. Plenty of money launderers pay their taxes in the hopes of "washing" their money. Don't structure your transactions. Structuring is a felony. Even if you pay your taxes! Sheesh, guys.

If your site does not ever allow you to withdraw more than the reportable amount, you need to document that it's a requirement of the site that you are not allowed to get more in one transaction. If it's under your control, stop structuring. Now. Today.








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My cashouts from poker sites are usually in the area of 5k-9k. I'm not keeping it in amounts like this to "structure", its just that those are the amounts that are most convenient for me to withdraw.








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I pay my taxes, so I shouldn't have to worry about anything right?

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Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

so does the IRS know exactly how much money every single big online poker player makes? i always thought their jaws dropped in joy when they got the big tax checks from money they didnt know existed...

Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

I was rather stupid since I hadn't had a large withdrawl recently, but Bodog just sent me $12,500 spread out on 5 consecutive check numbers. Any way to deposit these without raising suspicions?

Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

The 10k reporting requirement only applies to CASH transactions, not checks, wire transfers, etc. If BoDog sends you a 10k+ check or wire transfer, nothing is reported. As referenced by another poster, the law was designed to catch drug dealers who did all their business in cash.

Because the rule only applies to cash transactions, one cannot be guilty of structuring if one breaks up their non-cash transaction into increments of less than 10k. Basically, one would be attempting to circumvent a reporting requirement that does not exist.

SARs get filed for a variety of reasons, including multiple cash deposits of less than 10k in close proximity. Because there is no reporting requirement relating to checks (other than cashiers checks and other cash equivalents), depositing multiple checks of less than 10k in close proximity should not trigger an SAR.

Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

What would you define as "close proximity"? Weekly? Every other week? Also, since all checks are dated 1/30...would that raise any flags? Thx again

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If what Poker Ace writes is true, it seems to conflict with all the other postings. If it is JUST cash transfers, then this becomes a non-issue to all. So what's the truth?

Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

Yes,it is true and, yes, it does conflict with the common understanding on the boards and, yes, this is a non-issue which is why I keep posting about it. Unless one is dealing with CASH transactions of more than 10k, one need not worry.

Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

The confusion here arises because there are different laws, passed at different times, regarding cash and checks.

Cash, by the way, refers to not just to cash as in greenbacks but also to traveler's checks and certain wire transfers. For awhile after the 1986 act was passed, there was a fad for drug distributors to use traveler's checks. The evil-doers also played with using wire transfers. So the definition of cash is a little broader than intuition suggests.

I actually don't know if ACH deposits are counted as wire transfers. I tend to think not. I thought ACH was more like electronic checks. There is a clear record of where they came from and where they are going already. No need to create a second trail. Perhaps our banker friend can clarify.

In any case, the guy with the several $12,500 checks cannot be laundering cash, since he is merely depositing checks. I hope you already know that all checks over $100 are required to be copied and kept on file at banks since the 1970s. So your checks are open to inspection by DOJ or Dept. of Treasury if you are ever the subject of an investigation. We can thank Nixon for that one. This was the infamous and badly named "Bank Secrecy Act," in which it was established that in U.S. banks, there ain't no such thing as secrecy. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I exaggerate, of course, but perhaps only a little.

You may assume that the government can pull up a history of your deposits and withdrawals by check quite easily by presenting your bank with a subpoena.

Pay your taxes on all earned income. Don't try to earn by illegal activity, and don't associate with those who do. Not as fun as the oft-suggested "hookers and blow" but there it is.

To the man with several $12,500 checks, I say "well done, sir" and be sure to review the rules for estimated payment of tax, as making prompt estimated payments can reduce the amount of your taxes. If you wait until April 2008 to pay the taxes, there MAY be (depending on circumstance) additional penalties.

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If what Poker Ace writes is true, it seems to conflict with all the other postings. If it is JUST cash transfers, then this becomes a non-issue to all. So what's the truth?

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Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

so issue closed? all initial responses were wrong or not specifying cash only

Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

im sorry i was not clear earlier in my first post the poster who mentioned that these reporting requirements are for cash only is entirely correct the purpose of this reporting is to establish some sort of audit trail. With cash there is typically no audit trail, with check deposits or automated clearing house (ACH) deposits there is always an audit trail. However wire transfers are monitored constantly for suspicious activity to ensure that the banks are meeting compliance requirements and are not practicing willfull blindness which in essence is turning a blind eye to possibly suspicious activity. Most large banks have large units dedicated to the monitoring of wire transfer activity which is typically under more intense scrutiny than normal deposit and withdrawal behaviour. This is to look for possible activity which may be suspicious in nature. They do this by computer monitoring of transactions as well as actual human monitoring.

Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

besides all the (mis)information in a thread, there is a law that you have to report if you have over 10k total across all foreign bank accounts. this certainly applies to neteller + money in poker sites at any given time, but unclear if anyone has ever had any consequences from not reporting that.

Re: 10k Withdrawals and Government
 

obv anyone who cashed a check under 10k more than once is going to jail