25/50 Hand 2: 97s
 

Due to somebody leaving on their button or blind, it's one of those hands where there are two BBs and the button posts a SB. I am directly left of the button but post the BB.

I now have some vague reads on these guys:

EP: pretty much a total idiot, can have anything, plays aggressively most of the time, can't think at all, takes 15 minutes per decision and doesn't read hands
Button: semi-thinking LAG but plays poorly
BB: passive
MP2: passive, tightish

EP limps, MP2 raises, Button semi-CCs, I call with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], BB calls, EP calls.

5 to the flop for 10 SBs.

Flop gives me the most monster draw ever. 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

Double-gutted to the nut straight with the flush draw. I lead out, BB raises, EP cold-calls, PFR folds, Button cold-calls, I 3-bet, BB calls, EP now caps it, Button calls.

Turn is the worst card in the deck: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I check, BB checks, EP bets, Button calls, I call, BB calls.

River is the 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. What now??

Re: 25/50 Hand 2: 97s
 

you have to lead here. it's going to check through way way too often.

Re: 25/50 Hand 2: 97s
 

Bet and hope nobody raises. It might be possible to convince me a check is good here though.

Re: 25/50 Hand 2: 97s
 

bet/call based on your read of how aggro and stupid EP is. I could find a fold if raised by some people on river here.

Re: 25/50 Hand 2: 97s
 

Bet. EP is calling if he doesn't have a boat. So checking to induce bluff doesn't make sense. Bet, probably crying call if EP raises based only on your description of EP(dumb enough to raise with pp?, large pot)

Re: 25/50 Hand 2: 97s
 

[ QUOTE ]
Due to somebody leaving on their button or blind, it's one of those hands where there are two BBs and the button posts a SB. I am directly left of the button but post the BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF this is I don't know, but it seems very wrong. Was everyone else required to put up a live straddle?

For the hand:

Well, I guess it comes down to whether you think EP has the boat. The turn suggests the others were drawing. By betting you give the boat a chance to raise. By checking you get to showdown for 1 bet or fold when one of the passives comes alive. It's going to be tough enough when BB bets his 7 into EP who raises with 2 pair.

So, I think betting is going to make SD too expensive often enough that you want to check OOP and look to SD for 1 bet.

Re: 25/50 Hand 2: 97s
 

Bet and probably fold. Depends on the player, live players tend not to raise PP on a 4 to a straight board.

Re: 25/50 Hand 2: 97s
 

Are you afraid of a PP here?

I suppose if you thought EP is done being aggressive and none of the others will raise then betting would be the right choice. With a vulnerable 1 card straight a lot could go wrong here though.

Re: 25/50 Hand 2: 97s
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Due to somebody leaving on their button or blind, it's one of those hands where there are two BBs and the button posts a SB. I am directly left of the button but post the BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF this is I don't know, but it seems very wrong. Was everyone else required to put up a live straddle?



[/ QUOTE ]

You've played live before, right? It's hard to imagine you've never seen this situation.

OK, say that in the previous hand, the button is seat 1. Seat 2 is the SB, seat 3 is the BB, and "hero" is in seat 4 and is UTG.

Seat 2 busts out, and now the chair is empty. The button has to then move to seat 3. But he hasn't paid his SB yet. "Hero" in seat 4 hasn't paid his BB yet, but now he's directly left of the button. So seat 3 pays the SB on the button, Hero posts a BB, and seat 5, like all players two seats to the left of the button, posts a BB.

Re: 25/50 Hand 2: 97s
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bet and hope nobody raises.

[/ QUOTE ]

I probably call a raise by EP, but maybe not the others if they're as weak as you say.

Re: 25/50 Hand 2: 97s
 

You need to lead out here.

Re: 25/50 Hand 2: 97s
 

chk/call, yo.

Re: 25/50 Hand 2: 97s
 

Seems like a pretty easy bet to me. The bad player is going to pay you off. If the passive BB raises its probably a safe fold.

The only question is whether you call if EP raises. I think you call because he is the bad agressive type. If he was the bad passive type it would be a clear bet-fold.

Re: 25/50 Hand 2: 97s
 

I hesitate to fire, seems possible he may have boated the turn, but I still do fire. Ill take the risk he has not I hate to loose some river bets since he may not have much faith in his AA or killed draw as well?

Re: 25/50 Hand 2: 97s
 

Bet/call. I dont think its close.

Re: 25/50 Hand 2: 97s
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Due to somebody leaving on their button or blind, it's one of those hands where there are two BBs and the button posts a SB. I am directly left of the button but post the BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF this is I don't know, but it seems very wrong. Was everyone else required to put up a live straddle?



[/ QUOTE ]

You've played live before, right? It's hard to imagine you've never seen this situation.

OK, say that in the previous hand, the button is seat 1. Seat 2 is the SB, seat 3 is the BB, and "hero" is in seat 4 and is UTG.

Seat 2 busts out, and now the chair is empty. The button has to then move to seat 3. But he hasn't paid his SB yet. "Hero" in seat 4 hasn't paid his BB yet, but now he's directly left of the button. So seat 3 pays the SB on the button, Hero posts a BB, and seat 5, like all players two seats to the left of the button, posts a BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've a played maybe 500 hours live in Vegas, Foxwoods and AC and I've never seen this. In that situation, the button moves to the empty seat and 3 & 4 post the blinds. Have you seen this scenario in Vegas?

Re: 25/50 Hand 2: 97s
 

Joker --

I'd check and call. I think many here are underestimating how often we chop if we win.

If you feel comfortable folding to a raise, then betting has to be better, but given your descriptions I don't think you can be too comfortable. So check, I think.

--Nate

Re: 25/50 Hand 2: 97s
 

[ QUOTE ]


I've a played maybe 500 hours live in Vegas, Foxwoods and AC and I've never seen this. In that situation, the button moves to the empty seat and 3 & 4 post the blinds. Have you seen this scenario in Vegas?

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting. In California they never put the button in an empty seat. It sounds absurd to me that any cardrooms in America actually do.

Re: 25/50 Hand 2: 97s
 

I sent you a link to a post I made about this to the B&M forum. It is a Cali thing by the looks of it.

I think the only scenario at play is where the SB walks away without posting. If BB walks then next guy posts BB, if button walks then he misses his button. But if SB walks there's no one to post the SB. How you get from there to having 2 other plays post 3x SB doesn't make any sense to me. But whatever. If I ever get a chance to play in Cali I'll see for myself.

Cheers.

Re: 25/50 Hand 2: 97s
 

Bet and call a raise.

Re: sults
 

I decided to check and see how the action went. It checked around.

That bummed me out because clearly I lost a bet and I must have the winner, right? I proudly flipped over my straight, and then BB turned over 87o (no heart) for the nut straight. EP cursed and flipped over 42o for the flopped sucker.

Re: sults
 

I suck at poker.

Clearly donkeys>me.

LOL. Los Angeles poker is yummy.

Re: sults
 

In Vegas,they don't use the multiple blinds when somebode leaves in the middle of the blinds or on the button like they do in LA.They just leave the button in the dead seat.

Re: 25/50 Hand 2: 97s
 

You have to lead the river for value, all the players have been smooth calling, obviously a few others would have a heart draw in this situation so you hit the perfect card essentially (with the exception of the board being paired) One thing that always makes me a little sketched out in making this hand and leading out on the river after making your hand in a paired board is betting into it with 4 or 5 other players still in the hand. Now obviously your going to most likely get 2 or 3 folds but if your sharing that straight card with someone they might raise (especially if there donkeys!!) and then the person who has the boat might re-raise. This situation is always tough with a paired board. But what do I do in this situation? Lead because if someones gotta a big over pair and there married to it your going to get paid, you can sustain one raise and no more ont he river.

What was the final outcome?