Speeding Cameras
 

I am not sure if everyone is familiar with these cameras but essentially (at least where I live) the police park vans on the sidewalk and take pictures of speeders through a camera in the back window.

I was driving yesterday and spotted two of these vans posted up within a five mile radius. For some reason I feel this is a extreme violation of rights. We as tax payers pay for the roads and I feel that cops should not be able ticket citizens by posting up cameras in unsuspecting areas. I was wondering why as tax payers we do not get to Vote and decide whether or not we want cameras enforcing speed?

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

You're saying that the vans contain human officers who take pictures using a camera? Suggesting that that's a violation of your rights is pretty ridiculous.

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

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For some reason I feel this is a extreme violation of rights. We as tax payers pay for the roads and I feel that cops should not be able ticket citizens by posting up cameras in unsuspecting areas. I was wondering why as tax payers we do not get to Vote and decide whether or not we want cameras enforcing speed?

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What specific right are they violating? Your right to speed?

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

My right to not be monitored and ticketed through a camera. I also think that the public should be able to vote on whether or not these cameras should be on the roads.

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

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My right to not be monitored and ticketed through a camera. I also think that the public should be able to vote on whether or not these cameras should be on the roads.

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You don't have the right to "not be monitored and ticketed through a camera". It's basically a robocop. Why is it different if a machine does it instead of a person? It's not invading your home, you're out in the public streets. Also, voters have struck down these camera schemes in the past.

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

Going w/ the topic thought this was interesting. http://www.i-go-cars.com/autos/legis...dar-detectors/

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

Here in San Diego at certain intersections we have cameras. They will only take a picture if you run a red light. It is pretty obvious that they are there, as they are in big white boxes that look like a camera belongs in them, and in some places they have signs up saying photo enforcement is in effect. They even block out the passenger side of the car when a picture is taken.

It also sounds like these cars are marked as police vehicles. Do you find cameras on police cars that are used when making a traffic stop a violation of your rights as well?

As a taxpayer I should have the right to feel safe on the road

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

Interesting that the driver signs no promise to appear.

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

Some may find it a distraction on the road. I think it is often safer to be driving 5-10 mph faster than the speed limit. Also the they are just white Astro vans that they park on the sidewalk in random spots on different days.

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

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Interesting that the driver signs no promise to appear.

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True, I have heard that if you just throw away the ticket the Police will have to eventually send an officer to your house to make you sign.

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

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Interesting that the driver signs no promise to appear.

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True, I have heard that if you just throw away the ticket the Police will have to eventually send an officer to your house to make you sign.

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Make who sign, the registered owner? What if someone else was driving?

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

Bringing up good points, but if they got a picture of you and you are the owner...

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

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My right to not be monitored and ticketed through a camera.

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Where does such a "right" come from? I'm quite sure the courts have ruled that you have very little expectation of privacy in public.

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

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I think it is often safer to be driving 5-10 mph faster than the speed limit.

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See, your real beef is you don't like speeding laws. Fair, but this particular argument is complete BS. You're openly violating the law in public. How can you possibly think you have a right to do this?

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

Article about photo speeding tickets in San Jose, CA

<ul type="square">[*]The camera vans (as used in San Jose) are illegal[*]the city knows they are and they lost in court [*]the city plans to continue using the vans and mailing out the tickets anyways[/list]
I read the article and wondered why the city officials aren't going to jail. The author, Gary Richards, covers traffic and is a big fan of using the state to coerce behavior he likes from drivers (helmet laws, cell phone laws, etc.), as long as it is not an inconvenience for him.

Invisible license plate spray to combat cameras
 

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

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For some reason I feel this is a extreme violation of rights. We as tax payers pay for the roads and I feel that cops should not be able ticket citizens by posting up cameras in unsuspecting areas. I was wondering why as tax payers we do not get to Vote and decide whether or not we want cameras enforcing speed?

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What specific right are they violating? Your right to speed?

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his right to freedom from opression and his right to be treated as more than a entity to tax.

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

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My right to not be monitored and ticketed through a camera.

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Where does such a "right" come from? I'm quite sure the courts have ruled that you have very little expectation of privacy in public.

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sounds like slave speak to me.

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

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Here in San Diego at certain intersections we have cameras. They will only take a picture if you run a red light. It is pretty obvious that they are there, as they are in big white boxes that look like a camera belongs in them, and in some places they have signs up saying photo enforcement is in effect. They even block out the passenger side of the car when a picture is taken.

It also sounds like these cars are marked as police vehicles. Do you find cameras on police cars that are used when making a traffic stop a violation of your rights as well?

As a taxpayer I should have the right to feel safe on the road

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i didn't read that he was driving dangerously. speed tickets are about a tax scam, you know that right?

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

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For some reason I feel this is a extreme violation of rights. We as tax payers pay for the roads and I feel that cops should not be able ticket citizens by posting up cameras in unsuspecting areas. I was wondering why as tax payers we do not get to Vote and decide whether or not we want cameras enforcing speed?

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What specific right are they violating? Your right to speed?

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his right to freedom from opression and his right to be treated as more than a entity to tax.

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If this is oppressive, why aren't speed limits and traffic lights oppressive?

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

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My right to not be monitored and ticketed through a camera.

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Where does such a "right" come from? I'm quite sure the courts have ruled that you have very little expectation of privacy in public.

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sounds like slave speak to me.

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Now that's funny! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

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Some may find it a distraction on the road. I think it is often safer to be driving 5-10 mph faster than the speed limit. Also the they are just white Astro vans that they park on the sidewalk in random spots on different days.

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Yes, you may think so, like most morans!

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

Getting rid of publicly funded roads and letting the free market do it's thing is sounding better now isn't it?

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

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If this is oppressive, why aren't speed limits and traffic lights oppressive?

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It's all a matter of degree and where you draw the line is always going to arbitrary and subjective. Which is why people shouldn't be forced to fund it if it doesn't adhere to their opinion of what it should be.

On the other hand if we left it up to private companys to create private roads they would be able to most accurately measure driver's preferences because they have to in order to maximize profit.

Obviously I know you know this, just writing it for those that may support the quoted statement who may not have heard it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

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For some reason I feel this is a extreme violation of rights. We as tax payers pay for the roads and I feel that cops should not be able ticket citizens by posting up cameras in unsuspecting areas. I was wondering why as tax payers we do not get to Vote and decide whether or not we want cameras enforcing speed?

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What specific right are they violating? Your right to speed?

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his right to freedom from opression and his right to be treated as more than a entity to tax.

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If this is oppressive, why aren't speed limits and traffic lights oppressive?

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I guess you enjoy being taxed by speed limit tickets while driving safely and not endangering anyone. Not everyone shares this view.

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

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...while driving safely and not endangering anyone...

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yes, exactly... probably very authoritative and scientific or statistically based comment. In all honesty, I think you are a moran too.

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

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Getting rid of publicly funded roads and letting the free market do it's thing is sounding better now isn't it?

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Aren't you the guy who consistently complains about ACers being wrongfully accused of hijacking threads?

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

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I guess you enjoy being taxed by speed limit tickets while driving safely and not endangering anyone. Not everyone shares this view.

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The driver does not own the road, so he has no expectation of freedom there.

Now, of course, the state distorts (to put it mildly) the market for road provision. Further, the state does not *legitimately* own the road in the first place (since states cannot legitimately own property at all).

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

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Three years ago, he was headed down Booksin Avenue going 35 mph in a 25 zone.

...

But Luebkeman isn't an ordinary motorist. He had been a traffic lieutenant in the Santa Clara Police Department, and he knew that only cops can issue speeding tickets.



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So next time I get caught doing 35 in a 25 zone by some Santa Clara cop ...

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

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Getting rid of publicly funded roads and letting the free market do it's thing is sounding better now isn't it?

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Because there's nothing stopping the private owner of a road from taking your picture from a van and issuing you a citation if he deems your driving inappropriate. Yep. Privatization fixes everything.

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

The police also use radar. Would you be against that too?

I don't understand what difference it makes if they use a camera or radar or any other electronic aid in determining whether a person is speeding. Here in the L.A. area, they've installed cameras at key intersections to see if people run red lights. If you enter the intersection after the signal turns red, the camera takes a picture of you and your license plate.

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

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Getting rid of publicly funded roads and letting the free market do it's thing is sounding better now isn't it?

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Because there's nothing stopping the private owner of a road from taking your picture from a van and issuing you a citation if he deems your driving inappropriate. Yep. Privatization fixes everything.

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Why would any ACist consider this a problem? If I own a dance club and I say you have to wear a pink shirt to enter, this might be considered unreasonable by some, but if enough people thought this, I would go out of business.

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

I prefer speed limits to an officer subjectively and arbitrarily judging an "unsafe" speed. I also agree that speed limits are usually too low. If they were raised, and a lower tolerance for speeding was enforced (no bs 7mph rule) that was objective, I don't see the problem.

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Speeding tickets might have an element of scam in them, but they are also about public safety. My son was ticketed for going 69 in a 25 zone. That ticket was not a scam.

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

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Getting rid of publicly funded roads and letting the free market do it's thing is sounding better now isn't it?

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Because there's nothing stopping the private owner of a road from taking your picture from a van and issuing you a citation if he deems your driving inappropriate. Yep. Privatization fixes everything.

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Why would any ACist consider this a problem?

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I didn't say it was a problem, but it's the same situation about which the OP was complaining, and shake seemed to suggest would be "fixed" with private roads.

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

You reminded me of this clip from Monty Python's Holy Grail

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cxWYR0HAwE

Help Help, I'm being repressed!

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

"I think it is often safer to be driving 5-10 mph faster than the speed limit."

I think it is often safer to be driving under the influence of alcohol. Makes me calmer and less prone to road rage. I know best what laws I can violate with impunity.

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

Try living in Arizona--we have them on a stretch of freeway going through Scottsdale in addition to the cameras at red lights and vans. Rumor is they want to try to put them on ALL of Arizona's freeways through a referendum next year.

A huge problem IMO as this is driven by revenues not safety and is a pet peeve of mine. I follow a site/blog called thenewspaper.com and it follows the topic very closely. I bought a license cover for $25 and that keeps me insulated from the tickets, but still pi$$es me off. Police should be around for public safety NOT as a revenue source. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

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I was wondering why as tax payers we do not get to Vote and decide whether or not we want cameras enforcing speed?

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What makes you think that you can't get a law proposed that disallows traffic cameras like this? You don't have a right to directly vote on every decision made (we live in a representative democracy, not a direct one), but there is absolutely nothing that would disallow a bill being introduced, voted on and passed that would ban robocops.

A couple of problems with the traffic cams (as I see them):

1) it makes unfair assumptions as to who the actual driver of the vehicle is at the time of the violation. Essentially, the burden is shifted to the owner to prove that they were not the driver. This is, in my opinion, an inappropriate burden-shifting. The state should have to prove All elements of the crime/offense (in particular that the defendant actually committed the crime)

2) It takes away police discretion. This can be both a good and bad thing. Police discretion can certainly lead to abuse. However, there are many instances where a "warning" does the job as good/better than a ticket or where the totality of the circumstances do not warrant issuance of a ticket in the first place (i.e. driving to the hospital.)

Re: Speeding Cameras
 

I just want to make sure I'm reading this right:

Are people actually complaining about being caught openly breaking the law? I can understand disagreeing with the law itself, but complaining when you get caught OPENLY VIOLATING IT? Amazing.