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The Music Producers Series: Phil Spector
There are always plenty of music threads revolving around bands, songs, and albums. But the producers rarely get any love, even though at times they’re the true authors of the sound. It’s different for every producer – some are more hands-on than others – but I’d like to kick off this series with the guy I think is the single most talented musician in the history of American pop and rock. Please, other posters should do threads on their favorite producers; the only one I am liable to write about is Phil Spector.
Also: I am writing this post in bits and pieces while I have a few minutes here and there, so apologies in advance if it’s not as cohesive as I’d like. A little background on Phil Spector. He was born in Brooklyn to a Jewish family in 1940, then moved to Los Angeles where he grew up and went to high school. His father committed suicide when Phil was 8 years old, by driving alone and pulling the car over to the side of the road, hooking a hose up to the exhaust pipe, and filling the interior of the car with carbon monoxide. When Spector was a teenager, he wrote a song about his father, naming it after the inscription on the tombstone (which read: To Know Him Was To Love Him). Spector’s song was a love song from a girl to a boy called “To Know Him Is To Love Him,” and Spector wrote it in the middle of the night. He called his best friend Marshall at the crack of dawn, woke him up, and played the song for him over the phone. A little while later, Marshall, Phil, and a girl Phil liked all went into the studio and paid some dude $30 or something to get an hour of recording time. They did “To Know Him Is To Love Him” and somehow the demo got played on the radio and remarkably became a #1 single. That started Spector’s producing career. He ended up going to New York and working at the Brill Building, which is where all the great songwriters of the 1950s were working. Spector, as a teenager, studied under the great minds of music and quickly rose to fame. He had balls too: when he showed up as a kid in New York, he would say, “I came here from California to make hits.” His first claim to fame was “He’s a Rebel” in 1962 (I think, sorry I can’t check all these dates) recorded by The Crystals. Spector defined himself in 1963 while at Gold Star studios in Hollywood. It was a small recording space with a low ceiling. Spector crammed it with more musicians than anyone imagined could fit in there. He had dozens of percussionists, strings, horns, and guitars. And he had them play all at once rather than one at a time, their sounds bouncing off the walls and ceiling into each other’s microphones. That mic sound was then sent through an echo chamber and funneled into one track – always recording in mono – and that became the “wall of sound” Spector is famous for. He did this for a song called “Da Doo Ron Ron” that, if you listen to it today, still sounds like the most phenomenal breakthrough in rock and roll you could possibly imagine. Once he started working with hottie Ronnie Bennett and The Ronettes, he was unstoppable. “Be My Baby” was another classic, as was “Baby I Love You” and “And Then He Kissed Me,” my favorite Crystals song. But he didn’t stop with the girl groups. He recorded with the Righteous Brothers and did “You’ve Lost That Lovin’ Feeling” and “Unchained Melody,” two more classics people fell in love with around the time of Top Gun and Ghost. His influence spread far and wide. There would be no Brian Wilson or Pet Sounds without Spector. Sonny Bono and Cher, two kids who watched Spector at work in the early ‘60s, recorded their biggest hit “I Got You Babe” using his wall of sound approach. But Spector was insane. He was a musical genius for sure – in fact, the first version of “Lovin’ Feeling” was fast, like an Everly Brothers song. He slowed it down and slowed it down and slowed it down until it became the gut-wrenching classic it is today. And when he recorded the most expensive single ever produced (at its time), the amazingly great “River Deep Mountain High” with Tina Turner, he turned into a lunatic in the studio. He made Turner perform the track so many times that they went deep into the night. Without air conditioning in 1968, Tina was so hot and sweaty she ended up taking her shirt off. And, in the middle of the night, singing in nothing but a bra, she belted out the performance that is on that track today – still a masterpiece if you listen to it. There are stories of Spector being so wrapped up in his music that he would go to the fridge to take out some pastrami and leave his wallet in there, then spending days looking for his lost wallet. He wouldn’t let his wife Ronnie leave the house so he took all her shoes. And of course we all know he became such a weird recluse in recent years that he took to shooting some Hollywood starlet in the face with one of his many guns at his mansion. But despite his lunacy, he had the best ear for music of any producer in existence. When the Beatles broke up, Spector took over for George Martin and produced their farewell Let It Be album. He made George Harrison’s solo records as well as John Lennon’s Imagine. He even recorded with The Ramones, producing their greatest song ever: “Do You Remember Rock N Roll Radio?” I challenge anyone to go listen to that Ramones song and find something wrong with it. The blast of horns and drums, along with the vocals, make it the single pinnacle of American punk music history. “It’s the end, the end of the ‘70s/ It’s the end, the end of the century.” The thing I love about Spector is that he just had that sixth sense for what would make a record sparkle. When he heard stuff like “Da Doo Ron Ron” played back, he would turn to his engineers and say “Do you know what that sound is? Coming out of that speaker? That is solid gold coming out of that speaker.” He orchestrated entire symphonies to back up stupid 2-minute pop songs. His lyrics were primitive in their simplicity, but his melodies and harmonies and instrumentation were as complex as anything in the musical landscape. He truly authored his songs no matter who wrote or performed it; he had that much creative control. Whatever Stanley Kubrick was to cinema, Phil Spector was to pop music. For those of you unfamiliar with the sound of Phil Spector, I recommend either a) just buying his box set called Back To Mono; or b) hunting down these 10 songs to get a taste of what a genius he was: Da Doo Ron Ron (The Crystals) Do You Remember Rock N Roll Radio (The Ramones) Then He Kissed Me (The Crystals) River Deep-Mountain High (Tina Turner) Black Pearl (Sonny Charles and the Checkmates) You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' (The Righteous Brothers) I Wish I Never Saw the Sunshine (Ronnie Spector) To Know Him Is To Love Him (The Teddy Bears) Baby, I Love You (The Ronettes) Unchained Melody (The Righteous Brothers) |
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Re: The Music Producers Series: Phil Spector
Thanks PJ. As someone just getting into home recording I'll check those rec's out with this post in mind. The role of producer is such an enigmatic sort of role. It's always interesting to hear how producers like Rick Rubin or Quincy Jones works.
There is a version of "Thriller" out there that has a lot of Quincy Jones commentary in between songs and some outtakes and demo's of the tunes as well. Pretty interesting stuff. |
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Let's get a visual going with this... [/ QUOTE ] http://www.alhazan.com/images/phil-spector.jpg |
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Be My Baby is one of the five best pop songs ever IMO.
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aj - good post. I actually had Phil Spector on my Wikipedia reading list for today.
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Good post and great point about the importance of good production. Its interesting how directors in movies get so much credit but the same notority doesn't apply in music.
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PJ, I don't think I'm alone when I say I'm not entirely sure what music producers do. Do they just have a lot of input on the mixing and effects? Do they suggest/demand changes in song structure and hooks? What's the nature of their relationship with the artists, i.e. can one override the decisions of the other?
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Great post! I agree that music producers do not get the respect they deserve. I guess I never realized that Phil Spector did all that. Pretty impressive even though he seem to have finished up his life as a lunitic. Then again a LOT of really talented people are lunitics.
One of my music heroes is Todd Rundgren not just for his diverse musical talent but also for his huge skills as a producer. I am not on the list to start threads in this forum but I think Todd would make a great topic in this series if one of the folks who can start threads would want to go in that direction. |
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PJ, I don't think I'm alone when I say I'm not entirely sure what music producers do. Do they just have a lot of input on the mixing and effects? Do they suggest/demand changes in song structure and hooks? What's the nature of their relationship with the artists, i.e. can one override the decisions of the other? [/ QUOTE ] All of the above. Re: future music producer series suggestions, I need to see Rick Rubin. |
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Da Doo Ron Ron (The Crystals) Do You Remember Rock N Roll Radio (The Ramones) Then He Kissed Me (The Crystals) River Deep-Mountain High (Tina Turner) Black Pearl (Sonny Charles and the Checkmates) You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' (The Righteous Brothers) I Wish I Never Saw the Sunshine (Ronnie Spector) To Know Him Is To Love Him (The Teddy Bears) Baby, I Love You (The Ronettes) Unchained Melody (The Righteous Brothers) [/ QUOTE ] We should be linking this to the Martin Scorsese thread in OOT. The opening of Mean Streets with Be My Baby and the longing Harvey Keitel shots made the song unusable by any other director, according to Tarantino. |
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[ QUOTE ] PJ, I don't think I'm alone when I say I'm not entirely sure what music producers do. Do they just have a lot of input on the mixing and effects? Do they suggest/demand changes in song structure and hooks? What's the nature of their relationship with the artists, i.e. can one override the decisions of the other? [/ QUOTE ] All of the above. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah. To follow up on this -- first of all, it depends. Some are hands-off and let the artists do most of the creative stuff. But the real hands-on producers like Spector, Steve Albini, Rick Rubin, etc.; they have input in songwriting (suggesting everything from lyric changes to key changes to entire structural overhaul), they often determine the tempo of the song, and they DIRECT the performance in the studio. The same way a filmmaker guides his actors, a good music producer pays attention to every track and tells the artist how to hit the note, when to come down on the beat, how to express every part of the song to make it the best it can be. You'll notice some bands sound better on some albums and like crap on another. How can this be, since it's the same 4 guys writing and performing the songs? It's because they switched producers -- being told how to play and how to shape the song can absolutely turn a band from mediocre to great. Then you've got other tracks: producers will often suggest (and play on or at least compose) extra parts for keyboards or horns or whatever, stuff the band never dreamed of. Anything to add flavor to the song. Furthermore, they work with the engineers to record the sound the way they want -- what mics to use, where to put those mics, whether it should be clear or scuzzy, rich or simplified, gritty or glossy, mellow or loud, chaotic or easy. Mono or stereo even. Listen to a lot of not-that-talented bands and you'll realize the reason they suck on stage is that their producers do all the heavy lifting. Compare the Killers' "When You Were Young" single to their SNL performance of it. Night and day. Bands like OK Go are absolutely embarrassing when they play live. And Madonna and Britney became pop superstars of their day by listening to and following extremely talented producers. |
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Re: future music producer series suggestions, I need to see Rick Rubin. [/ QUOTE ] And Sam Phillips FTW!! |
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Great post. In addition to his regular pop stuff, "A Christmas Gift to You From Phil Spector" may be the best Christmas album ever (and put to great use in the Goodfellas sountrack). Darlene Love's "Christmas (Baby Please Come Home)" is just amazing.
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pj,
Great post and thread. I'd love to see writeups on all of the following: Rick Rubin Steve Albini Dr Dre Brian Eno Pharrell / Neptunes Quincy Jones Also sorta interested in Jermaine Dupri Timbaland Babyface I'm very seriously considering music producer as my next career. |
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One of my music heroes is Todd Rundgren not just for his diverse musical talent but also for his huge skills as a producer. I am not on the list to start threads in this forum but I think Todd would make a great topic in this series if one of the folks who can start threads would want to go in that direction. [/ QUOTE ] I'm listening to XTC today, so maybe you can answer this: what exactly happened between XTC and Rundgren. I've seen basic writeups, but no details. So what I know is that XTC hired Rundgren to produce Skylarking. Andy Partridge and Rundgren had a huge falling out, to the point where Partridge refused to speak to Rundgren for a long time (maybe even today). But the Skylarking album was a huge success anyway. |
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But despite his lunacy, he had the best ear for music of any producer in existence. When the Beatles broke up, Spector took over for George Martin and produced their farewell Let It Be album. [/ QUOTE ] I was always under the impression that: 1) Spector didn't actually "produce" the sessions, he took the tapes recorded during the Let It Be sessions and made an album out of it. Basically, he mixed the album. 2) The Beatles (and Paul McCartney in particular) HATED what Spector did to the album. (Although I guess Harrison and Lennon must not have hated it that much, since they hired Spector for solo albums). |
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Some other producers that I would love to see more stuff on:
Nigel Goodrich Trent Reznor Kanye West Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis -Al |
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I was always under the impression that: 1) Spector didn't actually "produce" the sessions, he took the tapes recorded during the Let It Be sessions and made an album out of it. Basically, he mixed the album. 2) The Beatles (and Paul McCartney in particular) HATED what Spector did to the album. (Although I guess Harrison and Lennon must not have hated it that much, since they hired Spector for solo albums). [/ QUOTE ] Both of these are true. McCartney released (just a few years ago I think) his version -- something like "Let It Be...Naked." But I love what Spector did with it. "The Long and Winding Road" is one of the best Beatles song, and "Let It Be" is their most tolerable ballad. |
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From when I started in the business thirty years ago, everyone always had stories of how crazy he was.
The guys at A&M studios told me that when he came there to work for a weekend, he wanted them to move the restroom next to the studio. Of course this was impossible. When they came in on Monday, they found that he had been using the microphone room next to the studio as a restroom. Several of my friends have told me stories of him pulling guns on them. I was friends with an ex-girlfriend of his. One night, she and Leonard Cohen went to Spectors for a party. When they wanted to leave he shot out her tires so they would stay. When that girl got shot, everyone was surprised something like that hadn't happened sooner. |
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I'm glad you saw this thread, Gabe. I'd love to get your insight on record producing in general, as well as some thoughts on Spector's artistic merits.
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I used to work with Barry Mann, who wrote "You've lost that Lovin' Fellin'." He says when he first heard the record of that Spector made with the Righteous Brothers he thought it was playing at the wrong speed.
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Awesome. Yeah that agrees with the info I had heard about Spector slowing it down a lot in the studio until Bill Medley was just creaking it out. What a genius.
Barry Mann, by the way, wrote a ton of great pop songs in the '60s with his partner -- was it Cynthia Weil? |
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pj,
Great thread man, hope you do some more. |
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I am not really sure. I haden't heard that until you mentioned it today.
Here is some stuff I just dug up quick: From Amazon: "The interesting thing about "Skylarking" is that it was recorded in a fractious atmosphere with Andy Partridge and producer Todd Rundgren getting on about as well as a mongoose and a snake. Perfectionist Partridge found Rundgrens more spontaneous recording methods irksome and this led to a major fall out with Colin Moulding as well . That the result is an album as musically rich and erudite as "Skylarking " suggests more bands should record their music in an environment of implacable hostility." From an interview with Andy Partridge and Colin Moulding on WBRU, 1989 ************************************************** ********** WBRU: OK. Um, now, Todd Rundgren, I know, produced "Skylarking," and you have a - (AP sucks in his breath with horror) - story behind someone who produced this album. . . CM: Emperor Toddulus. AP: Emperor Toddulus the First, yes, the only four foot tall producer we've ever worked with. CM: Yes, it can be told now, listeners, that Andy Partridge did not get on with Todd Rundgren. It has to be said. WBRU (worried): Ohh. AP: It's OK. Too much has been made of that, actually. We should be nice to Todd today. CM: Todd likes to do things the Todd way - AP: In Toddio. [?] CM: And if you don't like it, then the sparks are gonna fly, you know, but. . . AP: Yes, suffice to say that when you work with Todd you just have to leave your ego at home in the cupboard and come and be fleshy recording fodder for his love. WBRU: Which is what you love to do. AP: Oh, I just love to do that, yes! I mean, I've got a reasonable-sized ego, no bigger and no smaller than anyone else's, and Todd's rather got a monster! But he wouldn't show it to me, so. . . We just didn't get on too much. But I think the LP's fine. When we initially finished it, I was a little displeased with it, but I think that was more my - the fact that I thought that doing the whole LP was going to be like a summer holiday, a summer camp or something - not really summer camp, it was more like a concentration camp! Yes, Camp Todd, Stalag Todd, as it was known, actually. CM: Todd's got this studio up near Bearsville in upstate New York, and when the bands record at his studio, you have to stop in "The Guest House" for bands, you know, you make pals with the mice that roam the corridors and. . . it's a pretty decrepit sort of place. AP: It's amazing, the last band that were there had such a plague of mice that they tried to poison them, and succeeded, and so there were lots of dead, rotting mice under the floorboards stewing up the house lovely by the time we got there. WBRU: Always good for a bit of musical inspiration. AP: Oh, it was great, you get in there and - (sniffs) - Hmm, what's that smell? Is that airline food? (sniffs) CM: One thing that did strike us was the fact that Todd's gear that he's got in the studio all seems to be very antiquated, it really is stuck in the early 70's, technology-wise. AP: He's got "Stalinphone" printed on the lot of it. CM: And even more surprising that he runs his 24-inch, uh, sorry, 24-track tape recorder at 15 inches per second, which is unheard-of these days. It's supposed to be thirty inches. WBRU: All right, well, before we get sued, maybe we should stop. (Giggles nervously) AP: Just to round it all up, despite him being a total pain in the neck to work with, he's, uh - CM: He is a good producer. AP: He's a great producer, and - WBRU: The album sounded wonderful. AP: And a wonderful musician. And he did some very surprising, but very good things with the music. It was his idea that we do the kind of John Barry existentialist spy theme backing to "The Man Who Sailed Around His Soul," I mean, the original demo was nothing like that, it sounded more like Leonard Cohen, the original demo. CM: But he's a rotten engineer. AP (over intro to "Dear God"): Well, he's a rotten engineer, yeah. It's give and take, you know, he's a good producer. . . CM: On balance, it was a good experience, I think. AP: I wish I hadn't crapped in his wastepaper bin |
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The philosophy for recording had always been to capture a performance. While a few people, like Les Paul, were using the recording process to actually create the performance, it was a novelty until Spector.
Spector’s Philly’s Records was certainly the template, if not the inspiration, for Gordy’s Motown. Cynthia wrote with and was married to Barry. She wrote lyrics to “He’s So Shy,” a song I did with the Pointers. By the way, speaking of song writers, Mike Stoller, of Lieber and Stoller, plays 20-40 Stud every Saturday at HP. |
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Some other producers that I would love to see more stuff on: [/ QUOTE ] I like to see something on Don Fagenson (aka Don Was) For a while it seemed that every album I liked was produced by him. Regards, Woodguy |
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pj, Great post and thread. I'd love to see writeups on all of the following: Rick Rubin Steve Albini Dr Dre Brian Eno Pharrell / Neptunes Quincy Jones Also sorta interested in Jermaine Dupri Timbaland Babyface I'm very seriously considering music producer as my next career. [/ QUOTE ] Another GREAT one is Tom Dowd. I mentioned him in the documentary thread as there's a movie called "Tom Dowd and The Language of Music" which is excellent BTW. His contribution to music is immeasureable. |
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Great post. This is really cool stuff.
I, too, would like to hear more about Rick Rubin. His American Recordings albums with Johnny Cash are among my all-time favorites. How about Jack Endino, though he's probably too fringe. But I was in college in the Seattle area in the late 80s, and was into the local music scene. But then Mudhoney came out with 'Touch Me I'm Sick.' That was the song that told me something was really up in Seattle, and Endino produced it. For a while, his name was synonymous with Seattle music, and that song is 'grunge' to me. |
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I think Daniel Lanois is worth a mention as well.
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Dust Brothers!
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[ QUOTE ] Re: future music producer series suggestions, I need to see Rick Rubin. [/ QUOTE ] And Sam Phillips FTW!! [/ QUOTE ] Elvis effin Presely Johnny Cash Ike Turner Jerry Lee Lewis Roy Orbison Carl Perkins |
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Joker,
great post..I [censored] love Pet Sounds Sloop John B rules didn't realize it was so much bigger in the UK than in US at the time. Although not a big seller for the band originally, Pet Sounds has been influential since the day it was released. Rapturously received in Britain, it was lauded in the music press and championed by many top pop stars. The Beatles, for example, have said that Pet Sounds was a major influence on the Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band album, and Paul McCartney has repeatedly named it as one of his favorite albums (with "God Only Knows" as his favorite song) — completing a circle begun by the Beatles' influence on Brian (see "the beginning of Pet Sounds", above). McCartney stated that: “ It was Pet Sounds that blew me out of the water. I love the album so much. I've just bought my kids each a copy of it for their education in life ... I figure no one is educated musically 'til they've heard that album ... I love the orchestra, the arrangements ... it may be going overboard to say it's the classic of the century ... but to me, it certainly is a total, classic record that is unbeatable in many ways ... I've often played Pet Sounds and cried. I played it to John [Lennon] so much that it would be difficult for him to escape the influence ... it was the record of the time. The thing that really made me sit up and take notice was the bass lines ... and also, putting melodies in the bass line. That I think was probably the big influence that set me thinking when we recorded Pepper, it set me off on a period I had then for a couple of years of nearly always writing quite melodic bass lines. "God Only Knows" is a big favourite of mine ... very emotional, always a bit of a choker for me, that one. On "You Still Believe In Me", I love that melody - that kills me ... that's my favourite, I think ... it's so beautiful right at the end ... comes surging back in these multi-colored harmonies ... sends shivers up my spine. ” Other artists have also cited Pet Sounds as one of the all time classic albums. Eric Clapton stated that "I consider Pet Sounds to be one of the greatest pop LPs to ever be released. It encompasses everything that's ever knocked me out and rolled it all into one." Elton John thinks that "Pet Sounds is a landmark album. For me to say that I was enthralled would be an understatement. I had never heard such magical sounds, so amazingly recorded. It undoubtedly changed the way that I, and countless others, approached recording. It is a timeless and amazing recording of incredible genius and beauty." Beatles producer George Martin stated that "Without Pet Sounds, Sgt. Pepper wouldn't have happened… Pepper was an attempt to equal Pet Sounds. |
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Deserving of mention is Phil Spector's pivotal cameo in Easy Rider where he plays the drug dealer in the pre-opening credits deal.
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For sheer artistic quality of music produced, few come close to Tom Wilson, in my personal pantheon.
Bob Dylan; "Bringing It All Back Home", "Highway 61 Revisited" Frank Zappa & The Mothers of Invention; "Freak Out" Velvet Underground; "White Light/White Heat", "The Velvet Underground and Nico" Simon & Garfunkel; "Wednesday Morning, 3 A.M." Soft Machine; first album He had a record label which issued Sun Ra's first LP and Cecil Taylor's "Jazz Advance". Died 47 years old. |
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good post pj
i just heard an interview w/ Ronnie Bennett now Ronnie Spector on Fresh Air. Phil and her are now divorced, and I'd really like to hear more about their marriage and what Phil was like. Ronnie sort of insinuated some things when she was talking to Terry Grosse of Fresh Air, but she didn't really describe their marriage directly and why they broke up. Ronnie did say, flat out, that Phil would get mad at her when she sang rock and roll. Ronnie said that only classical music was allowed in the house.... this seemed strange to me, considering all the rock albums Phil produced. What really interested me is that Ronnie seemed to insinuate that it was somehow because of Phil that she stopped singing when they got married. That she had planned on singing, but that somehow the marriage... well Phil, I guess, prevented it. Does anyone know anything else about this? Anyway.... the interview's on NPR's podcasts of Fresh Air. It's the 3/2/2007 one, which is also good since it's got interviews w/ Melle Mel ("it's a jungle out there" - the message) and Grand Master Flash |
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pj, Great post and thread. I'd love to see writeups on all of the following: Rick Rubin Steve Albini Dr Dre Brian Eno Pharrell / Neptunes Quincy Jones Also sorta interested in Jermaine Dupri Timbaland Babyface I'm very seriously considering music producer as my next career. [/ QUOTE ] o rly? |
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Just adding this link in to somewhat show a producers input, Nirvana - Nevermind.
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Another GREAT one is Tom Dowd. I mentioned him in the documentary thread as there's a movie called "Tom Dowd and The Language of Music" which is excellent BTW. His contribution to music is immeasureable. [/ QUOTE ] I opened this thread and that is immediately who came to mind. I saw that documentary at SXSW a couple of years ago and was blown away by the volume of his work both as a producer and engineer. For those who don't know of him here is a short list: The Allman Brothers Cream Eric Clapton Solomon Burke Dr. John Derek and the Dominos Aretha Franklin The Drifters Buddy Guy Ben E King Freddy King Patty Labell Lynyrd Skynyrd MeatLoaf Charles Mingus Willie Nelson Fathead Newman Wilson Pickett Sam and Dave Otis Redding Diana Ross Dusty Springfield A Tribe Called Quest Rod Stewart Wet Willie Jerry Jeff Walker I would highly recommend the documentary for anyone who is interested in the production side of music. I was amazed at the amount of input/control that a producer has on the finished product. |
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Just adding this link in to somewhat show a producers input, Nirvana - Nevermind. [/ QUOTE ] Pretty cool, thanks. |
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