self censorship
 

are there any views opinions you self censor? i used to have none. I have many strange controversial views that i will spout at the drop of a hat, argue ad nauseum and back w/ my bankroll if the answer can be proven. lately i have taken one out of the repertoire. I DONT SUPPORT THE TROOPS. last time i checked people have free will. it seems to many morons like to back thier view on this subject w/ their fists and/or decide they can never speak to me again because im worse than hitler or something. what view do you censor?

Re: self censorship
 

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I DONT SUPPORT THE TROOPS.

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I got to put you on the spot here as I have to hear your reasoning on this one. I promise not to turn this into anything more than just accepting your response.

Re: self censorship
 

When I'm being smart, I try to not waste time in conversations with people that I know won't/can't listen about what I'm trying to say.

There's a lot of stuff about race and class that I don't bother to discuss with people who I know won't understand or it just won't change. Same with gun control and religion.

From where it seems like you're comming (free will), I think "I don't support the troops" has a chance of being an awfully unsophisticated argument, but I'd love to hear it.

Re: self censorship
 

I would say that I support the troops, but only insofar as I realize that there were plenty of people that didn't think "I want to be in a war".

There are people that signed up for various branches for educational benefits, etc.

Others were poor and dumb and got roped into it.


I'm not supportive of what our Commander in Chief is trying to do, but I want as many troops to make it home alive as possible. Then I want them to get the best mental health and general healthcare possible.

So, I support the troops inasmuch that I support people not dying even if they made some bad decisions to be there.

Except for the dudes that kill and rape Iraqi women and children. I don't give a [censored] about trauma of war, that should NEVER occur.

Re: self censorship
 

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I'm not supportive of what our Commander in Chief is trying to do, but I want as many troops to make it home alive as possible.

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This is how almost every person I've came across that claims they don't support the troops actually feels. They seem to think that just because you support the young men and women to come home safe, it means you agree with the political cause, which certainly isn't true.

Apparently, it's a two way street though since people were so successful in turning no votes towards the Iraqi war into an "against the troops" vote. It shouldn't be and I feel like anyone with 1/2 a sense should be able to differentiate the two.

Re: self censorship
 

As a general rule, any view that generates a response you don't care for is probably best left unexpressed. To most people, this is known as survival.

Re: self censorship
 

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I got to put you on the spot here as I have to hear your reasoning on this one. I promise not to turn this into anything more than just accepting your response.

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From where it seems like you're comming (free will), I think "I don't support the troops" has a chance of being an awfully unsophisticated argument.......

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I would say that I support the troops, but only insofar as blah blah blah standard widely accepted opinion that couldn't possibly cause one to impose self censorhip to avoid discussing........

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it's funny how people can simultaneously miss and illustrate the point of the thread at the same time.
(or maybe I'm misunderstanding?)

I think that "Ending World Hunger" is not only an absurd idea but a very bad one to strive for. Redistributing world hunger is a more realistic and less destructive idea.

Re: self censorship
 

i don't really censor myself so much as i just don't bother starting arguments that can't be won / have no purpose. i hold a lot of opinions that would probably shock or offend most people but they aren't really important to my daily activities, so i don't feel obligated to share them.

there's a difference between a conflict of principles and a conflict of opinions. i won't hesitate to hash out the former whenever necessary. the latter is usually not worth getting into.

Re: self censorship
 

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So, I support the troops inasmuch that I support people not dying even if they made some bad decisions to be there.



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so that means you support the people our troops are fighting too, right?

Re: self censorship
 

I have found that as I have gotten older I have become more conservative. I am more liberal than most people my age, but compared to the ultra liberal university students I go to school with, I am Rush Limbaugh. I generally keep my yap shut in classroom discussions because it is pretty pointless to get into an argument with kids. (No offense to university students on here. for the most part you guys are intelligent, and can form good arguments. I am sure even you realize that you are the exception and not the norm).

Re: self censorship
 

Stuff I censor:

* I cuss like a sailor around some of my friends (and especially when I'm driving, even if I'm alone). But I don't cuss at all at work. And rarely cuss in front of my wife.

* I don't talk politics with any co-workers either. I used to in my old job. But my current job is in the Bay Area, with many people with much more "liberal" views than I have. So I just don't talk about that stuff with them. (I also never voiced my libertarian views to "conservative" co-workers at my last job.)

Re: self censorship
 

I hate people who don't capitalize, only slightly less than people who hypocritically claim to support the troops.

Re: self censorship
 

I'm pretty excellent at censoring myself. The typical conversation around my house would not be appropriate in most places. And I typically don't bring up controversial subjects unless
1) I think it will be a good discussion
2) I want to piss someone off, which usually involves...
3) I'm drunk

Somewhat off topic:
My best friend swears in public all the time and will discuss things like Alabama hot pockets (Urban Dictionary link- NSFW text) in a restaurant with little kids sitting in the booth next to us. I don't get how he can't at least tone it down in public.

Once I started to let a "that's what she said" slip while bowling with a VP at a company event. Yes, I have a childish sense of humor.

Re: self censorship
 

I don't vote. I have what I think are good reasons for this but I don't want to explain them here and I'm not interested in debating the issue. Otherwise intelligent and calm people have been known to flip out or view me the way they would someone who picked fights with the mentally retarded when I mention this. I just tell people I voted for Kerry.

I've had some spiritual/occult/transcendent experiences that I will never bring up unless I'm sure the person I'm talking to has had similar experiences. Same thing with drug use.

Re: self censorship
 

This is tough to admit, but deep within me I believe that Asian people are bad drivers. I don't want to believe it, I'm ashamed that I believe it, but Jesus Christ, it really seems to me that there are a lot of crappy-driving Asian people. I don't know why this would be, and it's probably not even true. I try to keep this view to myself, but sometimes it forces its way out, much to my embarrassment.

Re: self censorship
 

I'm pretty prejudice... I don't let other know that usually.

Re: self censorship
 

This is tough to admit, but deep within me I believe that white people are fantastic drivers. I don't want to believe it, I'm ashamed that I believe it, but Jesus Christ, it is the White Man's Burden to teach me and my kind how to drive [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

We all have cultural and ethnic stereotypes, some of which are embarrassing. One of the harmless ones I have are that Filipino women are fierce.

Re: self censorship
 

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So, I support the troops inasmuch that I support people not dying even if they made some bad decisions to be there.



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so that means you support the people our troops are fighting too, right?

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I support pretty much minimizing the amount of deaths regardless of nationality or side of the fight.

I'm not gonna lie, I have certain patriotic feelings and empathy for Americans that make me value an American soldier's life more than an Iraqi soldier. But I'm pretty sure 99.9% of Americans feel the same way.

Re: self censorship
 

Unless I'm drunk I'll never comment on politics or religion in a social setting where my opinion wasn't solicited.

When I'm drunk, I'll tell people talking about religion that they're stupid and their deity was a conman, etc. I'll also play devil's advocate against anyone I'm around that talks about politics. It usually ends up with me making an enemy or two (but is soooo much fun).

Re: self censorship
 

Limon - I lost a lot of respect for you.

Re: self censorship
 

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So, I support the troops inasmuch that I support people not dying even if they made some bad decisions to be there.



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so that means you support the people our troops are fighting too, right?

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I support pretty much minimizing the amount of deaths regardless of nationality or side of the fight.

I'm not gonna lie, I have certain patriotic feelings and empathy for Americans that make me value an American soldier's life more than an Iraqi soldier. But I'm pretty sure 99.9% of Americans feel the same way.

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i think a good rule of thumb is that if the majority of america thinks something then you should seriously consider going the opposite way.

in this case you don't even have to use this convenient rule of thumb. imaginary lines and being randomly born in a certain place shouldn't be the only reason to value one human's life over another's.

Re: self censorship
 

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This is tough to admit, but deep within me I believe that white people are fantastic drivers. I don't want to believe it, I'm ashamed that I believe it, but Jesus Christ, it is the White Man's Burden to teach me and my kind how to drive [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

We all have cultural and ethnic stereotypes, some of which are embarrassing. One of the harmless ones I have are that Filipino women are fierce.

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I think there's a good reason for this one. Or at least my guess.

Many asians are learning to drive at a much older age, so you're just seeing noobish driving. We all know teenagers can't drive, but we don't factor other demographics into it.

Re: self censorship
 

I have to be careful, because a)I have a pretty dirty mouth, and b)I am a Libertarian, which puts me at odds with most people. It doesn't mean I never voice my opinion, but I basically decide for myself beforehand whether or not I want to get into a debate/fight. Some things I let go, some things I can't let go...it just depends on me.

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Yes, I have many stupid and irrational beliefs but i never let anyone know what they are becuase I know they are stupid and irrational, and I dont want to end up having people thinking Im a complete douche bag, like many are thinking about the OP.

Re: self censorship
 

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Yes, I have many stupid and irrational beliefs but i never let anyone know what they are becuase I know they are stupid and irrational, and I dont want to end up having people thinking Im a complete douche bag, like many are thinking about the OP.

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Didn't you just post a couple weeks ago that you don't care what anyone thinks about you?

Re: self censorship
 

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Limon - I lost a lot of respect for you.

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huh?!? you havent evn heard my arguement yet. this is why i self censor on this particular isssue.

Re: self censorship
 

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Yes, I have many stupid and irrational beliefs but i never let anyone know what they are becuase I know they are stupid and irrational, and I dont want to end up having people thinking Im a complete douche bag, like many are thinking about the OP.

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Didn't you just post a couple weeks ago that you don't care what anyone thinks about you?

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i dont care what people think...its what they think is worth a fist fight.

Re: self censorship
 

Self-moderation is more accurate term for me than self-censorship.
A lot of times I just choose to sit a play, when my friends make ridiculous claims such as,
JJ Redick top 10 NCAA B-Ball player of all time.
Barnagi will become as good as Dirk not even close.
Three years from now I would take Brady Quinn over any QB in the NFL.
etc, etc.


I often censor myself about poker. I don't feel like telling my friends that I'm pissed off because I have lost $x this week, or conversely that I'm pissed off because I only won $x or that I'm giddy because this Month I made $x.

Re: self censorship
 

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I often censor myself about poker. I don't feel like telling my friends that I'm pissed off because I have lost $x this week, or conversely that I'm pissed off because I only won $x or that I'm giddy because this Month I made $x.

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I understand that. I lost 2k whoring a casino once and made the mistake of telling my friends that. They couldn't understand why I would do that. Even though I lost 2k, it was still +EV. It's hard to explain EV to someone who doesn't gamble.

Re: self censorship
 

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I DONT SUPPORT THE TROOPS.

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I got to put you on the spot here as I have to hear your reasoning on this one. I promise not to turn this into anything more than just accepting your response.

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here is an intro to the subject. candy coated and simplistic but i dont want ot really get into it if most arent interested.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...e-stein24jan24,0,4137172.column?coll=la-news-comment-opinions

Re: self censorship
 

i haven't read it yet, and want to distance myself from his opinion.

working link to limon's article

Re: self censorship
 

I rarely tell people that I don't believe in free will. They are awfully attached to that idea.

Re: self censorship
 

limon et al,

I read the article and agree with pretty much all of it.

It's not so clear that the guy doesn't "support the troops" though. He basically thinks that we need to get the soldiers the care that they need (hospitals and mental I guess) aftwerward and tools like armor they need to fight. While he's not doing anything, nor are the people who put up yellow ribbons and bumper stickers. At least if the things he has to say were implemented the soldiers would actually get real support that would help them.

Re: self censorship
 

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[ QUOTE ]
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I DONT SUPPORT THE TROOPS.

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I got to put you on the spot here as I have to hear your reasoning on this one. I promise not to turn this into anything more than just accepting your response.

[/ QUOTE ]

here is an intro to the subject. candy coated and simplistic but i dont want ot really get into it if most arent interested.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...e-stein24jan24,0,4137172.column?coll=la-news-comment-opinions

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Is that you or it just sums up your opinion?

I want to reply more, but I said I wouldn't and I'll keep it that way [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: self censorship
 

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I rarely tell people that I don't believe in free will. They are awfully attached to that idea.

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new kind of science is a book i go back to again and again (on several topics). i tend to think wolframs ideas about free will have alot of merit. heres a snippet of an interview:

"I do think that the history of the universe--and everything in it--is completely determined. But the point about computational irreducibility is that it shows that that doesn't mean it has to be dull. Even though it's determined, it can still be unpredictable and surprising. And it's irreducible--so we actually have to live it in order to see what happens. I find that a bit ennobling: to know that our history can't just be compressed--that we can't predict its outcome without living it.

NKS brings science into quite a few issues that have only been addressable by philosophy--or theology--before. And one of the things that at first seems troubling is that it makes humans seem less special than we thought. But that's often the way science advances. The Copernican revolution showed us that we don't live at a special point in the physical universe. NKS is now telling us that we don't represent a special point in the computational universe either. Still, it tells us something ennobling too: it tells us that we are just as computationally sophisticated as the physical universe."

Re: self censorship
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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I DONT SUPPORT THE TROOPS.

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I got to put you on the spot here as I have to hear your reasoning on this one. I promise not to turn this into anything more than just accepting your response.

[/ QUOTE ]

here is an intro to the subject. candy coated and simplistic but i dont want ot really get into it if most arent interested.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...e-stein24jan24,0,4137172.column?coll=la-news-comment-opinions

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Is that you or it just sums up your opinion?

I want to reply more, but I said I wouldn't and I'll keep it that way [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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two quotes are spot on:

"I'm not for the war. And being against the war and saying you support the troops is one of the wussiest positions the pacifists have ever taken -- and they're wussy by definition. It's as if the one lesson they took away from Vietnam wasn't to avoid foreign conflicts with no pressing national interest but to remember to throw a parade afterward."

and

"The truth is that people who pull triggers are ultimately responsible, whether they're following orders or not. An army of people making individual moral choices may be inefficient, but an army of people ignoring their morality is horrifying."

much of the rest can be quibbled w/, added to or simply discarded.

Re: self censorship
 

I censor tons of opinions I have, on religion, ethics, relationships etc... why bother starting an argument when you don't have to? I'm not going to back down from an opinion because it's unpopular, but in casual conversation I'm more likely to give a lazy "yeah" than launch into a philosophical discussion on why I don't think it's possible to have an absolute morality, etc. IMO Certain opinions only resonate with certain people and it can be incredibly time-wasting to argue for an hour with someone who is set in his or her ways and will not concede any point to any logic, evidence, etc.

Re: self censorship
 

Determinism is probably best left out of most conversations unless you are speaking with like minded people.

Oh yeah and fwiw I believe everyone has loads of self censors, whether they realise it or not.

Re: self censorship
 

Limon - Don't really care about your reasons. I support the war and the troops.

"The truth is that people who pull triggers are ultimately responsible, whether they're following orders or not. An army of people making individual moral choices may be inefficient, but an army of people ignoring their morality is horrifying."

Re: self censorship
 

I think the phrase "self-censorship" is inapt. Editing one's own expressions, for whatever reason, is not censorship imo.

And the invocation of "censorship" strikes me as a cowardly advance against some other who can't handle freedom of speech-- so I the victim am double wronged, not only am I being suppressed, but I'm forced into being my own suppressor.

Anyway. I often don't express my thoughts on this or that (many subjects) for many of the reasons already provided in this thread.

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two quotes are spot on:

"I'm not for the war. And being against the war and saying you support the troops is one of the wussiest positions the pacifists have ever taken -- and they're wussy by definition. It's as if the one lesson they took away from Vietnam wasn't to avoid foreign conflicts with no pressing national interest but to remember to throw a parade afterward."

and

"The truth is that people who pull triggers are ultimately responsible, whether they're following orders or not. An army of people making individual moral choices may be inefficient, but an army of people ignoring their morality is horrifying."

much of the rest can be quibbled w/, added to or simply discarded.

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The first quote is irrelevant, I assume, because neither the author or you are pacifist-- in which case, a direct refutation of the distinction between "jus in bello" and "jus ad bellum" would be necessary.

The second quote strikes me as incoherent.