Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

This is a hand from yesterdays full tilt $75 short handed.

Rekwob is the BB with about 7700.
I'm button with about 6600.
Blinds 100/200

We're 5 handed for the time being, and i've been moderately aggressive. Rekwob has yet to play back at me yet.

I hold K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] on the button.

Preflop: Folds to me, i raise to 550, SB folds, rekwob calls.

Flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Rekwob bets 600, I?

Line me.

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

So I guess no read on what he weak leads with? That varies sooo much from good player to good player.

But, I think a raise here looks really bluffy, so why not call? IT doesn't really turn our hand over because presumably we're calling with lots of marginal hands too.

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

call, and shove any turn card if he checks.

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

Im still pretty new here, and trying to learn by posting & responding..

I shove this. I would think he must be on something like Ace Jack. He is leading pretty strong, enough that says he may well fold to a shove.... Assuming he even folds 10-15% of the time I think this is a solid play. When he does call you, at the very worst you have 4 outs twice for the straight (sf) the real most likely scenario on a call is that you have 13 outs twice, and theres plenty in the pot already for overlay.

At these stack sizes your not in the money yet right? I would think he is stabbing at this pot and willing to fold. If he folds he still has 6600 NP, he knows if he calls you the most likely scenario is that he is up against a hand with a lot of drawing potential, I dunno, I really think he mucks a jack here.

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

I don't know about a line for the rest of the hand but, I like calling here because as mentioned I don't think it reveals your hand. In fact, I think he might be more likely to call a value raise from your made hand if you call here and raise a scare card.

cjx

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

Alrite then, lets advance the hand.

Flop:
Rekwob bets 600, hero calls.

Turn: Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Rekwob bets 1800, hero?

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

[ QUOTE ]
call, and shove any turn card if he checks.

[/ QUOTE ]

You want to bet ~5k into a ~2.5k pot?

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

How has he been playing? I'm not sure of his style or how often he's leading out a flop when he called a raise PF as it is usually either something players do a lot or never.

Now, we have 1200 in the pot PF and he leads out 1/2 pot. You have 6k left at this point. With the flush draw, gut shot draw, and an over I think you have plenty of outs even if you're behind right here.

A lot of people will want to call this and see a turn card, but if you completely miss the turn what do you do when he fires a 2nd barrel? Fold?

My play on this is raise to 2k-ish. If all goes well he folds right here and we take down a sizable pot. If he calls we wait and see what the turn brings and play it from there.

I can see this as him just leading out a flop that has a lot of potential scares to you and trying to take it down. He's going to be folding to a raise a lot of the time here IMO. Calling the flop looks like either a monster or a monster draw. I do not think you get paid off on a straight or flush here if it hits on the turn with you calling on the flop.

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

Bond

I am not familiar with the play in such events, nor Rekwobs style.

What kind of holdings do you think he could be taking this line with?

How often do you expect it to be just some kind of blind defense?

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Alrite then, lets advance the hand.

Flop:
Rekwob bets 600, hero calls.

Turn: Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Rekwob bets 1800, hero?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero folds. IMO you had to become the aggressor on the flop if you wanted to take this pot down without hitting your hand. By raising on the flop, if he calls to see the turn he's very very likely to check it to you. At which point you can shove this Q and take the pot down. As it is you looked very weak on the flop and I don't see him laying down to a shove on the turn regardless of holdings (I'm of course assuming he has at least something decent like a J or PP, of course a Q is calling)

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bond

I am not familiar with the play in such events, nor Rekwobs style.

What kind of holdings do you think he could be taking this line with?

How often do you expect it to be just some kind of blind defense?

[/ QUOTE ]

Rekwob is definately a good enough player to defend his blind with the call/donk flop line.

I think he could take this line with a Q, KJ/JT, 9T, KT.

The donk bet threw me for a bit of a loop.

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

Well, that's about as bad a turn as possible. Maybe only slightly better than a Jack. I curse myself for not playing it differently and fold. I just don't know if he'll be able to lay ANYTHING down unless he's on a pure bluff and calling, check/folding a miss would be awful so all I can think of here is push or fold and ... I fold.

cjx

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Alrite then, lets advance the hand.

Flop:
Rekwob bets 600, hero calls.

Turn: Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Rekwob bets 1800, hero?

[/ QUOTE ]

And this would be why I pushed on the flop. So, if a diamond comes we can assume he *might* check fold, so were not exactly extracting by making a call on the flop. If we flat call, what do we do when the inevitable happens and we do not hit one of our outs and any old card comes and the villain bets. I think having to fold the turn really sucks. The whole point of a hand like yours on the flop is that it should see both of the last two cards.

Clearly you play at a way higher level than I do, and against way harder opponents. I think pretty straightforward on this flop. Mucho outs, Want to see both cards, some moderate fold equity, ALLSYOUCANEAT, im allin.

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

Flop call is good, turn should be a fold. You're not ahead, he'll rarely fold turn, you'll never bluff river successfully when you miss, you'll rarely get paid when you hit, you don't have odds to draw, and sometimes you get stacked on river because boats and trips are definitely in his range here.

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Alrite then, lets advance the hand.

Flop:
Rekwob bets 600, hero calls.

Turn: Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Rekwob bets 1800, hero?

[/ QUOTE ]

And this would be why I pushed on the flop. So, if a diamond comes we can assume he *might* check fold, so were not exactly extracting by making a call on the flop. If we flat call, what do we do when the inevitable happens and we do not hit one of our outs and any old card comes and the villain bets. I think having to fold the turn really sucks. The whole point of a hand like yours on the flop is that it should see both of the last two cards.

Clearly you play at a way higher level than I do, and against way harder opponents. I think pretty straightforward on this flop. Mucho outs, Want to see both cards, some moderate fold equity, ALLSYOUCANEAT, im allin.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pushing that flop is not a good idea at all IMO. The pot is way too small to be overpushing that and lets him know you don't have a made hand. As I said originally, raising to 1,800-2k is the play on the flop.

Fold is the play on the turn given how you played the flop.

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

Raise the flop all day and call a shove.

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop all day and suck out

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop all day and call a shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

Make it 1800 on the flop and get all your chips in one way or another on the turn (except for this Q or J turn, when you have to fold to a push).

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

just make it 2100 on flop and call a push

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

R/R to 1800-2000 on the flop. If he just calls, you may get a free card if you miss the turn. If he folds, great, If he pushes, let's gamble.

As played on his turn bet of 1800, your expressed odds are 2.4 to 1, not good enough to call. If you think you can get all his chips in the middle if you hit T or a diamond, then your implied odds are closer to 5.4 to 1, which would be good enough. If you think you can get him to call another 2k for value if you hit your hand, you'll get around 4.2 to 1 odds which is just good enough to call. Its a gamble if you decide to call, but I think you'll have the odds if you hit your hand. If your flush/str8's are actually good that is.

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

Do you guys think this is a good spot to try to get a free card? I think i would raise the flop to 1800-2000 and if he calls/checks turn i would check behind. As played, i think i fold the turn to that bet.

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

if we're raise-calling w/ K high; we should probably think about just shoving

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

[ QUOTE ]
if we're raise-calling w/ K high; we should probably think about just shoving

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I'd do and I've been waiting for someone to patiently explain why it is wrong, except for the fact that raising substantially probably generates more FE than an open push. But I think that's compensated by the fact that we fold out worse draws that beat us at showdown unimproved.

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop all day and call a shove.

[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely when he donks he makes the hand so easy to play. I seriously can't believe you called his flop bet.

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
call, and shove any turn card if he checks.

[/ QUOTE ]

You want to bet ~5k into a ~2.5k pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

abso-[censored]-lutely

a turn check on his part would be so insanely weak, it is begging us to shove here, and besides, we will be almost guaranteed to get all our chips in if a king hits the river anyway, i really dont see much difference between shoving and potting the turn as if we are drawing to "only" 12 outs, the end result is exactly the same (we lose half our stack when we miss or a king hits and he was already ahead of us, except if we dont get the chips in before the river we may not get paid on the river)

Re: Another hand vs Rekwob (Full tilt $75 6 handed)
 

question is whether you shove, which has much more folding equity and might get me off second pair, or you raise, because im shoving any pair/draw that i donk bet with and it only gets me off total air