how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

unfortunately, all the "chicken littles" were apparently right. firepay, neteller, party, mansion, paradise, now doyles room, etc etc are all off limits to the u.s. some neteller funds are being seized by the doj, and even some particular banks are not wanting to honor checks from certain sites/companies. virtually everything that can go wrong, has.

i have to assume that all of these companies shut out u.s. players because they felt they were (at least very soon were going to be) forced to. how long before stars, fulltilt, and ultimatebet (and the few other little guys that are left) just give up?

this latest fiasco with doyles room illustrates that a site (or a representative) can tell you theyll definitely be open for the foreseeable future, and then literally hours later slam the door. im thinking ps, ft and ub happen to just be the smartest/greediest/boldest and are trying to make every last dime possible during their last few months in the u.s. market. there have been a lot of people predicting the slow but eventual falls of all these rooms/companies, and we all sat here and shot them down repeatedly. but every day the people who were accused of "overhyping" the ban are being proven right. gaboonviper is starting to look like a genius with all of this.

the bill was signed on october 13th, so the 270 day enforcement rule marks july as the big showdown date. i wouldnt be surprised to see the last few remaining companies stick it out til may or june and suddenly just pull the plug on the u.s. im guessing stars will be the last major site left and drops in may.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

I think Stars will be next. The rest won't be able to survive without Americans, Stars can. I would guess within 6 months.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

[ QUOTE ]

gaboonviper is starting to look like a genius with all of this.


[/ QUOTE ]

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

You gotta remember, back in October when the fallout started, each site stated their intentions shortly thereafter. FT, UB, STARS, ABSOLUTE, said they were staying for good.

The others, including Doyle's Room said they would be leaving. I know they hoped to be able to service the US, but why bother? Without Tribeca, they are nothing and I fully expect Doyle's Room to be gobbled up into an IPOKER brand.

Let's not all panic just yet, the sky is not falling. The sites that said they are staying are still here. Let's not go down without a fight.

Mega

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Let's not all panic just yet, the sky is not falling. The sites that said they are staying are still here. Let's not go down without a fight.

Mega

[/ QUOTE ]

seriously man, if youre not "panicing" now, then what would it take? im so incredibly sick of this "the sky is falling" dig at everyone to make them sound like unreasonable fanatics. the sky clearly is falling, its just a matter of how much.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

If I recall, when the sites all pulled out, as well as firepay, Neteller said they were staying....

Neteller also told PokerStars that if they ever abandoned the market, they would give them 90 days notice, they gave them 1 day notice (or less).

Point is, it is in no site's benefit to give a long notice or intention to withdraw. I assume if the big 4 exit the U.S. market, we will not have more then a few days notice.

The sites will do what is best for their owners, not the players. Same as Neteller did.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

Neteller never said they were staying for good. Also, the DOJ seized 55 million of Neteller customer's money in transit; they didn't choose to leave, nor did they have the ability to give 90 days notice.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

What's the point in speculating? Also note that the sites you mention have taken a contrary legal interpretation than the DoJ likely takes of the IUGEA, or they don't care. It doesn't matter which, and nothing has changed to alter that. If they were willing to take the risk immediately after passage they still are now. The only thing that will give them a big incentive to leave the US market is the new regs coming out and being a lot more effective than they think or seems likely, which might make the attendant legal risk not worth the reward.

Again you can speculate and make all the predictions you want like lawmangaboontroll has been doing, or you can just wait until the fall and see how it stands. However if you both depend on poker income for your living and also don't have any savings, then you might want to start looking for a j-o-b now and avoid the rush later as a backup plan.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

Edited by me

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

HUD---you sound like a hater!

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

gaboonviper is starting to look like a troll with all of this.


[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

No personal attacks

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

gaboonviper is starting to look like a troll with all of this.


[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
Starting might not be the most appropriate word [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
the sky is not falling

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it is falling - anybody with a brain can see that and only the people that are blind with hope do not see it.

As Bill Rini says - go smoke your Big Fat Joint of Hope but things are NOT well in the poker world.

If you have not noticed it the poker rooms in LV are almost empty now and the fish are becoming less and less as they go belly up and there is no EASY way to reload.

I WANT a Big Fat Joint of Hope but saying everything is all right is just lunacy.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

Doyles room is folding b/c they arent big enough to stand alone. Look at Negreanus site. It is attempting to stand alone though im not sure it will. Doyle lost its network and had time to find a new one but didnt. Some of the others left but they werent worthwhile anyways.

The only site of real worth to leave is Party...The others dont have any real reason to leave do they? I doubt they had or have any plans to visit america anytime soon

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Again you can speculate and make all the predictions you want like lawmangaboontroll has been doing, or you can just wait until the fall and see how it stands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting choice of words. Do you mean fall as in the season or as in the fall of Rome?

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What's the point in speculating?

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the point in guessing what your opponent has? What's the point of ever considering the future?

The point of speculating is that via making educated guesses about the future you can attempt to adapt and position yourself either for the least harm or the greatest benefit. I don't agree with people like gaboonviper and that should come to some of you as a surprise since the guy has ripped off several of my posts on my blog and poorly restated my arguments in threads here. He's a troll in the sense that few of his posts are actually his own original thoughts so he poorly defends them and has no ability to offer a reasoned debate.

The OP is right though. People like me have been right, right from the beginning. I don't mean that to brag. I say that because I didn't get all emotional about it and let myself get caught in a state of denial or in a state of panic. I took what facts I could gather and made some educated guesses about the future. Some of those guesses saved me a ton of money that would otherwise be locked up at Neteller. I didn't panic. I didn't make rash decisions. I made careful decisions.

These are risky times to be doing what we do. To ignore that fact with arguments which assume speculation is pointless or that waiting is the best policy seem to add a lot more risk.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also note that the sites you mention have taken a contrary legal interpretation than the DoJ likely takes of the IUGEA, or they don't care. It doesn't matter which, and nothing has changed to alter that. If they were willing to take the risk immediately after passage they still are now. The only thing that will give them a big incentive to leave the US market is the new regs coming out and being a lot more effective than they think or seems likely, which might make the attendant legal risk not worth the reward.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that why Full Tilt sent out an email this morning with the following:

[ QUOTE ]

Although many legal scholars would argue that online poker should not be affected by the UIGEA, we believe the law's lack of clarity can only harm the game unless an express exemption is granted under the UIGEA. You should be outraged that, in a rush to passage, poker did not receive the objective review it deserves, and did not already get this express exemption while lotteries, horse racing, and fantasy sports were all given free passes. We demand that Congress address this grievous oversight now.


[/ QUOTE ]

It sure as hell seems they now think that the law needs to have an express carve out otherwise the game will be harmed. That's not the stance they took in Oct when they calimed that they felt the law didn't even apply to online poker.

In case you forgot, this is what they said in Oct

[ QUOTE ]

Furthermore, we firmly believe that online poker is not encompassed by this new legislation. In any event, we will continue to lobby for an express carve-out for online poker and for your right to play a truly American game from the privacy of your own home and computer.


[/ QUOTE ]

Over/under lines on FTP, PStars, WPEX, Absolute/UB
 

FTP , the earlier of July 15 or a threatened indictment of one or more principals, likely when they show up for the 1st day of the WSOP..... best guess July 6 (?).

PStars, July 15, or earlier ... depending upon their non-US volume.

WPEX, never .... they are already under indictments for sports, so wtf would they care ?

Absolute, never, as they seem to be built along the sportsbook mentality.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

They hear footsteps. now that they have become the tallest weed in the poker garden ... that's all.

It WOULD be nice if they showed up effectively on the Hill an got an exemption passed .... wishful thinking, though.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

Good call, perhaps

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What's the point in speculating?

[/ QUOTE ]

The point is, I would not keep any balance at a pokersite that you could not live without for a year plus. When the bill was signed Oct 13, we all felt we would have plenty of time for an orderly return of funds ala Party Poker. I'm not so sure this will be the same when any of the 4 go down post the 270 day period.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

Bill,

Regarding the usefullness of speculation, note again that we are talking about a *short* time period before the regs come out and then a couple of months afterward to see their immediate effect. Since that time frame is in months, there really isn't much point in speculating for the sake of making plans, except for the caveat I gave, which is a player who makes his living online and also has no savings. And even then the plan he should make isn't to ignore the shortcomings of the PPA, but to start looking for a job.

As to FT or other sites that currently allow US players to play on their sites, their email you quote really doesn't necessarily indicate a change in their views. They simply are prudently taking steps to reduce the amount of legal risk they have chosen to take on if they can. However that risk doesn't exist in a vacuum. It exists along with profit/reward and ratio of same to risk determines their actions. Just as any business constantly tries to reduce overhead and non-fixed costs, those sites will try to reduce risk, in this case legal risk.

And I want to address this overall conversation here between those like yourself who are glass empty guys, and those of us who are glass half-full guys. We have both made our points and there is no reason to belabour it. The position I set out above of waiting 6 months before making long term plans is reasonable with the noted caveat. You disagree, but also have a further agenda here, which was evidenced by one of your blog entries where you state the glass half-full players were the biggest threat to online poker. Let's examine that.

Your contention might be correct if we were talking about a longer time frame. As in if we had foreknowlege a couple years ago that the IUGEA was like to be passed in two years, thus necessitating the direst predictions in order to mobilize effective action. But in fact we are post-IUGEA and pre-regs, and again dealing with a short time period. There is a long term need for us to act, but not a pressing short term need as a carve-out is a long shot in any such time frame, and more likely to be achieved in the long run as even failed short term efforts increase long term awareness of our cause.

Thus I believe that you and others have mistakenly focused on this short time frame of 6 months instead of the longer one, and with the result that many of you are willing to sweep any legitimate concerns about the PPA under the rug and also believe it necessary to fan the fires of hysteria and panic in order to get others to also ignore both the PPA's shortcomings and the unlikelihood of any carve-out being achieved in the short run, so as to bolster the PPA.

But in so doing you also allow yourselves to become the pawns of those companies, both publicly held poker sites and funding concerns, and also sports betting sites, who have the most to lose in a glass half-full scenario where the regs come and go and mostly aren't effective and we are still left with a hand full of sites doing business with US players in a hostile legal environment. Party Poker in particular is very bitter about the private sites remaining in the market and wishes nothing other than to have them in the same situation as themselves, instead of what we have now which is those private sites free-rolling on Party.

So you and lawmangaboontroll can keep beating the drums of panic and hysteria all you want, and if your direst predictions come true then you can proudly thump your chests and say "Aha! We told you so!" in six months. However for myself and others, we will take the longer view and wait till that short run has ended, and focus on making sure that we have the best organization possible to lead our cause for the long run. We would in fact like that to be the PPA, but only if they are willing to address our legitimate concerns. Six months is nothing in the long term to insure it is *our* interests that are being *effectively* advanced, and not those of companies with divergent interests.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
and even some particular banks are not wanting to honor checks from certain sites/companies.

[/ QUOTE ]


Link please.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

See the zoo (internet gambling forum) for such bank issues. There are a couple threads going on about same.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bill,

and if your direst predictions come true then you can proudly thump your chests and say "Aha! We told you so!" in six months.

[/ QUOTE ]

You forgot the part about beating something else because the hysteria has increased his blog traffic.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
See the zoo (internet gambling forum) for such bank issues. There are a couple threads going on about same.

[/ QUOTE ]

And as of yet, there hasn't been a single check rejected. People keep spouting that nonsense about banks not honoring checks because they don't understand how banking works.

Kids: Ask your mom and dad how paper checks work. And stop posting that crap.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

KotOD, please explain your last post.

I deposited a check from River Belle that my bank did not honor. I deposited and then had the deposit reversed a week later. I called RB's customer service and was informed that USA banks are not accepting their checks.

I am not the only one that has reported this.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

Well, I guess you can fight the PPA (the only group I know of doing anything - whether we agree with tactics or not) at every turn and take this wait and see attitude.

What happens in August if there aren't any rooms left open to US players?

It's hard enough to get people to take action now - even if it's dialing a phone or pushing send on a prefab online letter to Congress. Do you really think people will be motivated to do anything once there's nothing left to fight for?

If there are no rooms to play at - there will be no point (in the minds of most) to taking any kind of action. By then UIGEA will be a done deal. Goodbye online poker. Forever.

Aside from perhaps a handful of online pros (e.g. those with no political clout whatsoever), the only potential "players" left with an interest in a carveout or whatever else, will be the rooms and CP etc - those you feel the PPA is working too hard for now. But by then the market will have been obliterated and even they may determine fighting is would be -ROI. No way to know for sure. I guess we should just wait and see.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

The message that governments in the US, France, The Netherlands, Germany, Poland, Turkey, Russia, Israel, China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Vietnam, and even parts of Canada (notably Ontario Province) are sending is very clear:

Either the government owns the online poker room or the government issues an explicit license to an online poker room to operate in a country/territory, or the government will do whatever it takes to block off the flow of cash to that offshore online poker room in order to protect government-owned or government-licensed gaming monopolies.

The governments around the world will each have a HEAVY hand on determining who is allowed to run legal online poker rooms in each country/territory.

Remember that in most countries, being able to gamble legally is a PRIVILEGE, not a right. The government can decide who gets to gamble, on what a person can gamble, with whom a person can gamble, how much a person can gamble, and how much "juice" the government will extract from gamblers.

Get used to this trend.

Even PartyGaming, the biggest bully on the block, has figured out that governments hold ALL the "aces" when it comes to explicit licensing.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

Oliver,
I completely agree. I think the fight to save poker as we know it is a waste of time. The fight should be for US Gov sanctioned sites, even if that means full disclosure, 1099s, etc. That's the only long term possibility. Let's just get on with it.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

olivert is right. the wild west days will be soon be ending.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

Thank you for the positive input zombies. As time passes everyone will see most of my past predictions will come true. Also, FT, Stars, UB, Bodog... all done, just a matter of time. Highly unlikely any of them left by end of 2007 WSOP--probably much sooner.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

I hope it not going to happen. If either stars or FT leave U.S. then people start worry.
Just so many bad news and really none good news since Neteller. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

Well if you can point me to where I've spread unsubstantiated hysteria that would be useful because I don't believe I have. I will admit to stating things in very blunt and unapologetic terms in an effort to get people's attention but I have not claimed people are going to lose all their money or anything like that.

Also I don't play into the hands of anybody. I disagree with the PPA on several issues and I've stated some of those in public and some I've discussed with Michael in private. I don't feel the carve out is the way to go. Which by the way is funny because supposedly I'm siding with the non-US companies, the PPA, and since FTP is using that email to encourage people to join the PPA which I obviously am siding with then . . . I guess FTP as well. According to you I'm playing into every side's hands :-)

In poker we're taught to look at the long term and not be results oriented but that still doesn't mean you shouldn't pay attention to the hand you're playing right now. And, to be completely honest, that's the advice I see you give out in several threads. Oh don't worry, we'll wait and see how this all pans out. Why wait? Some things are highly probable. Some things have a medium possiblity and some are highly unlikely. Why not prepare and take action to either protect yourself or to profit from the highly probable events? Why should we wait for regs to be published?

You say the only actions that should be taken now is if you're a pro with no savings. Why shouldn't Joe Player be evaluating which sites are more likely to stay than others? Some site's payment options are troubling. Should you ignore that because the regs haven't been published yet or should you take your business to a site that offers more security.

And I do look at the long term. I see a very bright future for online poker for the long term. However, I don't see a very bright future for sites currently offering gaming to US players in the long term. The US has a way of remembering who's given them the finger and I don't think any of those companies is ever going to legally be able to offer gaming in the US. America's funny that way.

But the bottom line is that while you may hate my point of view, you would likely not suffer any ill effects following any of my advice which, to date, has been:

Join organizations like the PPA (if there was others, I would recommend them too)
Vote
Inform your elected reps that you won't vote for them if they don't support online poker
Get the word out to others
Educate yourself
Don't listen to any of these online poker sites blindly
Be very, very careful until this whole thing gets sorted out and expect the worst.

Is any of that hysterical? Is any of that unreasonable?

I don't need to beat my chest. I'm not here to say I'm right. I'm here to at least offer a counter-opinion to all of this overly optimistic crap being flung around as facts or advice from people in the know. Many of the same people claiming that the worst is behind us are the same people who claimed it would be impossible to shut down Netller. I'm not saying you said that (and I'm too lazy to read through your copious posts <grin>) but certainly many of the folks still offering their expert advice on what's coming up did. Banks couldn't cut off ACH transfers, no way! It's too expensive. Too complex. But somehow they did it. And they did it without the regs.

Now which would have been more prudent:

a) Act blindly thinking you had 270 days to gamble your little heart out

b) Do a little research and find out how vulnerable the payment processing business is and adjust your actions to reflect that fact (e.g. keeping smaller deposits, etc).

Picking "B" doesn't mean you run around like a chicken with it's head cut off, quit playing, go into hibernation, and start stockpiling guns in your bomb shelter. It means you adjust yoru actions based on the risk involved. Many people are not only promoting staying ignorant but intentionally pumping misinformation into the forum as a form of denial. If you can get another people to believe then somehow it seems more reasonable for you to have held the view in the first place.

Starting to see why I'm more than willing to sound a little like chicken little if it might help people avoid making the mistake of picking "A"?

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
And I want to address this overall conversation here between those like yourself who are glass empty guys, and those of us who are glass half-full guys.

[/ QUOTE ]

The weatherman predicts heavy rain this afternoon. By lunch time the clouds come rolling in and the wind picks up. Still some people say the weatherman is nuts and as we all know, he's not always right. Darker clouds roll in and we find out it's raining to the north. Nah, it still couldn't rain here, it's just not possible. Oh crap, now it's starting to sprinkle....hmm, well this will just blow over....wait is that rain? Son of a gun. Well the weatherman is still an idiot even though he got lucky with this prediction. What? Now he's predicting severe weather? How could that be, it's just raining, lightning and thundering outside now? It can't get worse than this. The weatherman is an idiot.

You can stand out in the rain getting wet and deny the weatherman was right and keep lieing to yourself because you are a fatal optimist or you can face the facts and admit it will probably get worse before it gets better. Had more people really believed the UIGEA was coming and would be real, something might could have been done to head it off at the pass.

Optimism in a situation like this does nothing to actually help the cause. I was very optimistic up front but once the push for the ban was on, I knew it was going to get ugly. I echoed Bill's sentiments all the while praying I would be wrong. Once the UIGEA was passed I knew our days were numbered, even though the eternal optimist still told us that the UIGEA would do nothing and wouldn't even be enforced. Not only did the online poker empire fall, if fell faster than even I could have guessed.

Then the eternal optimist said that average Joe Fish would not be hindered from jumping through hoops to deposit and redeposit on the 2 major sites left for us to play at. I beg to differ. I dare you to find a FT mirco-limit full ring LHE table with more than 40% of the players seeing the flop. 30% is usually a real stretch. Oh and if you do find a loose table, the waiting list will be 8 people deep. Then the game dries up as the one or two fish bust out and the TAGs take their place. Within 30 minutes PAHUD shows the % has dried up to 22% seeing the flop. The point is, the masses of fish are gone. Just another prediction that sadly came true.

I hate this as much as anyone else. I hope that something can be done to change all of this and the US will step up to allow regulated online poker. I'm trying to be optimistic about that because it is our best chance for the future. I just think that some people take optimism too far and begin lieing to themselves and then consider realist the "glass empty" people.

Just my 2 cents and no need for huge debates directed at me. My position isn't going to change and us arguing won't do any good. I've spoken my peace. Now I'll go back to daydreaming about the good ol' days at Party Poker. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

Bill,

Caution and skepticism is certainly prudent. I wouldn't argue otherwise. And I follow carefully all the nuances of funding mechanisms. However this overall situation is comprised of several sub-issues, the majority of which have to go against us in order for the current situation as of today not to be availiable to us 6 months from now. You have chosen to believe the direst possibilities will come true. The probability of same is certainly non-zero, but it's not 100% either. In fact a parlay has to occur for that worst case scenario to transpire. The financial regs have to come out in the worst form and be virtually totally effective either in themselves or by influencing hyper self-compliance, they have to have the technical and international means to do so, and the sites have to abandon their current contrary to the DoJ legal interpretations of the IUGEA (or their not caring about the legal risks), and all of them cutoff US players.

I certainly don't mean to portray an overly rosy picture. It is far from that. It's just that I don't believe the government will ulitmately be effective in cutting off all avenues of relatively easy funding/withdrawal options, which factor is likely to be more relevant to whether we have sites to play on in six months than the factor of legal risk those sites may or may not be taking. Intimidation of a few to scare the majority who are mostly beyond their legal reach is a prime strategy of the DoJ.

So I'm not acting blindly like in 6 months it is a surefire thing the current situation will prevail, and neither are the majority of knowledgeable posters here who have closely followed this issue. Your cautions are in fact more appropriate for the rank and file posters of the zoo than the regulars here.

As to the PPA, even if we were assured the worst case scenario would transpire by the end of the year, there is no urgent necessity to support them as is without their addressing legitimate concerns about their organizaional structure, goals and financial transparency. For the long term we need an organization that supports *our* goals, and is *effective* in pursuing them. As I have said before I would like that organization to be the PPA. But as there is no urgent necessity in the short term to ignore those concerns, I'm not supporting them fully until and unless they do adequately address those concerns.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Oliver,
I completely agree. I think the fight to save poker as we know it is a waste of time. The fight should be for US Gov sanctioned sites, even if that means full disclosure, 1099s, etc. That's the only long term possibility. Let's just get on with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

With the way the UIGEA is worded, the gaming commission or lottery authority of each U.S. STATE can legally start up its own online poker site that is limited to state residents ONLY.

I would not be surprised if the likes of Progressive Gaming (PGIC for you NASDAQ home gamers) is pitching its software to each of 40+ lottery commissions around the U.S.

As for Nevada: I do know that Stations Casinos has applied for an intrastate online gaming license with the Nevada Gaming Commission for online sports betting. One should not be surprised to see other casinos in Nevada applying to launch intrastate online gaming sites, including online poker, in the next 24-36 months.

The future of online poker, even in the U.S., will likely be government-owned or government-licensed sites serving each state. The potential licensees will also have to be SQUEEKY CLEAN if they want a shot at getting the licenses.

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not only did the online poker empire fall, if fell faster than even I could have guessed.

[/ QUOTE ]
Fell where? I still play online every single night of the week.

[ QUOTE ]
Then the eternal optimist said that average Joe Fish would not be hindered from jumping through hoops to deposit

[/ QUOTE ]
Jump through hoops? You mean all the hoops it takes to reach into my wallet and grab my debit card? Oh, ok.

I guess I'm a fish, relatively speaking. I run well, then get stupid and play above my head, lose, drop down, win again, rinse and repeat.

I'm here and going nowhere. Play on!

Re: how long before PS UB and FT drop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
With the way the UIGEA is worded, the gaming commission or lottery authority of each U.S. STATE can legally start up its own online poker site that is limited to state residents ONLY.

[/ QUOTE ]


olivert,

Your legal interpretation is slightly off here. The states don't possess the right to allow intra-state online gambling because of the permissive largesse of the federal government through the IUGEA, but rather constitutionally already possessed that right which the federal government cannot take away even under the broadest interpretation of the commerce clause. Indeed, the IUGEA depends for much of any effective force it might have upon state law regarding gaming.