Leave the table?
 

Ok, so in the current online environment, you have to be able to get the most out of all kinds of games.

Here's one thing I've been thinking about, your multitabling, and you have your name on a couple of lists. Your name comes up, and you get a seat in a game. A while ago, it had some characteristics that you liked, but you were fourth or fifth on the list, when you joined it, and you have been busy, and haven't kept up with whether or not the game is any good.

Anyway, you post in the Big blind, and the first hand you play is folded to you. This kind of indicates that the game is going to play tight, and right now you don't see any known donaters on the table. You got a SB's worth of profit off of this table, for playing one hand. Should you decline the SB, and try and find another table, perhaps one where there is more action, or do you stick it out, and hope that the seat that you took, wasn't the one that was generating all the action?

Anyway, what do people think about taking a one SB profit and bailing on this table?

Re: Leave the table?
 

I usually just get stuck and play for ten hours trying to get even.

Re: Leave the table?
 

I think players comfortable chipping away rock gardens will say stay, and those more comfortable with more active opponents will say bail?

Re: Leave the table?
 

You already "won" your SB. So basically, I look at this as freerolling for an orbit.

Re: Leave the table?
 

Do we know for sure that this is a crappy table? Or is this view just based upon a single hand?

I usually quite like adapting my play to the tight tables - getting to steal lot, etc. I personally quite like my winrate at these tables...

But if we don't want to be at the table I think leaving now would be silly. I'm sure the vast majority of players winrates would increase remarkably if they, by some great blessing, didn't have to pay blinds. We can now see another 9 hands (approx.) for the price of a SB. So I think we should pay our SB and enjoy our position for the following few hands and beyond.

Re: Leave the table?
 

I agree that leaving here would be silly. At the very least, pay the SB and see if you can't catch a premium hand in the next 9 hands. In the meantime you can get a slightly better evaulation of the table, and maybe you'll find your donor and want to stay.

That being said, I don't have the experience where I can decide quickly if a table is good for me. Right now I actually try to sit at different environments to pick up new skills.

Re: Leave the table?
 

well, you likely won't match that winrate for the rest of the session(1hand=1sb, that's 50bb/100). that said, i would just check the availability for tables real quick, or just make a change. i try to stay aware of the table situation for the limits i am playing while on a less than spectacular table, always staying on a waiting list for a "better" table. when the seat opens, if i want it i take it. if i like where i'm at, well, i usually take the other seat anyway and decide after a few more orbits(or less).

Re: Leave the table?
 

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I think players comfortable chipping away rock gardens will say stay, and those more comfortable with more active opponents will say bail?

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Well, I can chip away at the rock garden, but it is hard work, and it is usually a lot harder than finding a couple of loose passive players, or a maniac, where the profits can come in several big bets, instead of the couple of small bets that you can chip off in a rock garden.

I guess I just find it a lot more fun to play in looser games, because a lot more hands are playable. In those tight games, you can expand your range preflop if you are first in, but if you can't get first in, you have to contract your range, and you have to play a lot more cautiously postflop, which also isn't as much fun.

When I'm playing a lot of tables, I usually end up dumping these tables within a lap or two, anyway, so I was just wondering if I shouldn't dump the table immediately.

Re: Leave the table?
 

Bob:

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When I'm playing a lot of tables, I usually end up dumping these tables within a lap or two, anyway, so I was just wondering if I shouldn't dump the table immediately.

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Since great tables aren't all that common (it isn't like 3 years ago when I could just close the bad table and immediately find a dozen great ones) , I usually will give a table a chance---maybe an orbit or 2 before giving up. I am often surprised to find a couple of unknown loosish donators after initially thinking the table was completely craptastic.

Re: Leave the table?
 

I treat this situation as other have stated - a free orbit.

Re: Leave the table?
 

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I usually just get stuck and play for ten hours trying to get even.

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that's funny.

fwiw bob, and this may have been mentioned, i usually stay away from the tables with 4 or more on the waiting list. if i do put my name on, i may scout it throughout my session to make sure the donators are still present. if they leave(as they often do by the time it reaches you as the 4th in line), i just remove myself from the list or decline the seat when it opens.

Re: Leave the table?
 

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You already "won" your SB. So basically, I look at this as freerolling for an orbit.

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I agree, I also think of this as a freeroll in the first orbit rather than a small profit. Take the "free ride" at least till you are UTG and by then you probably have small idea how the table is, and who knows, you might have gotten some rockets on the way around! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Leave the table?
 

Imagine a game where you didn't have to post the big blind. How profitable would this game be? Even filled with rocks (a perfectly profitably situation in itself, by the way), you should crush this game.

Well, this is exactly the game you get to play right now, for one round. Leaving now is silly.

Unless I'm sitting on your left and will get to skip the big blind if you leave. Then by all means, go ahead. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-eric

Re: Leave the table?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You already "won" your SB. So basically, I look at this as freerolling for an orbit.

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So by this logic, a 2/4 player who wins $150 in a session would be wise to sit down in a 100/200 game for one round and "freeroll" as he looks for aces? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

You got the right answer, but for the wrong reason, IMO. Previous results have no bearing on our decision to stay or go.

-eric

Re: Leave the table?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You already "won" your SB. So basically, I look at this as freerolling for an orbit.

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So by this logic, a 2/4 player who wins $150 in a session would be wise to sit down in a 100/200 game for one round and "freeroll" as he looks for aces? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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No. But if that 2/4 player were foolish enough to sit at the 100/200 table and were then given a walk after posting in the BB, then he should play out the rest of his orbit. Although that would be a slightly different situation, as the $50 that he would have "won" with that walk represents more than 10 BBs in his usual game.

The OP tells us that we suspect that this table is no longer good, but we can't be sure. We also can't be sure that, even if it does suck now, a rock or two might leave during our one orbit and be replaced by a known donor. Since the 1/2 SB makes no difference whatsoever to our bankroll, it would be foolish to leave the table now and pass up our chance for a "free" orbit. Much the same as it would be a mistake to stand up after folding on the button in a full game.

This is even more true if we believe that, even in a rock garden, we still have a +EV situation (albeit less +EV than we could expect at a better table).

Re: Leave the table?
 

What you are talking about is just a simple version of a stop loss strategy. You've "already" made the money you are going to average so you just leave? One thing I have noticed about online play vs. live play is that players tend to hop alot more. This means that there might be a lot of fresh live money coming in pretty soon and as stated previously many times in this string the one orbit idea isn't a bad one.

I've also noticed that the action players love to run over a table, so they will often look for a tight table when it's time to take a seat. Moreover, these action players don't always know the difference between a tight aggressive player and a tight passive player, so they could easily confuse you for just another tight passy that they can run over, especially on a table full of tighty whiteys.

When I have a tight table like that (this goes for live play too but especially in an online environment where players hop around) I steal a few blinds here and there just trying to scrape up a little bit, and I wait. Sure enough, sooner or later, here comes Mr Action and I let him run me over a couple times, maybe toss out a few blinds. Sooner or later, this guy will make the tight players uncomfy so as some of them leave I obtain a seat that has excellent relative position (depending on my strategy). Then I begin to play back at him and pummel the poor sucker, which more often then not makes him tilt (especially on the lower limits) while at the same time makes the tight passive players that are left want to "stay out of it" which means I can go heads up an awful lot with a tilting loose aggressive player. Oh the joy oh the joy!!

The point is, sometimes, in an online environment you have to have a strategy for the table, not just a way to play the status quo but rather a way to play the evolving table.

Re: Leave the table?
 

i just tend to start new tables. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Leave the table?
 

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i just tend to start new tables.

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IMO, this is an excellent way to find good games. In my experience loose, gambling players don't really like to join waiting lists. When a FR game gets going from a very SH gaame, I find they are often full of loose players and will often have the SH atmosphere about them long after they turn to FR.

Re: Leave the table?
 

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The OP tells us that we suspect that this table is no longer good, but we can't be sure. We also can't be sure that, even if it does suck now, a rock or two might leave during our one orbit and be replaced by a known donor. Since the 1/2 SB makes no difference whatsoever to our bankroll, it would be foolish to leave the table now and pass up our chance for a "free" orbit. Much the same as it would be a mistake to stand up after folding on the button in a full game.

This is even more true if we believe that, even in a rock garden, we still have a +EV situation (albeit less +EV than we could expect at a better table).

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These are all good reasons, and like I said, continuing to play is the right move. If you'd said this in your first post, I wouldn't have said anything! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

But you said this:

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You already "won" your SB. So basically, I look at this as freerolling for an orbit.


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and I couldn't resist pointing out that this logic is bad, even though it happens to lead to the right conclussion. Your follow up reasons are much better.

-eric

Re: Leave the table?
 

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Quote:
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i just tend to start new tables.


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IMO, this is an excellent way to find good games. In my experience loose, gambling players don't really like to join waiting lists. When a FR game gets going from a very SH gaame, I find they are often full of loose players and will often have the SH atmosphere about them long after they turn to FR.

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I agree. I rememeber, just barely, because it was a long time ago [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img], when I was starting out, and one of the hardest things that I had to deal with, was a full handed game, that got short, and then got full again. I made the switch to shorthanded play, but then when the game filled back up, I couldn't shift gears again.

I'm sure that there are players who jump into shorthanded situations, and then when the game fills up, are unable to switch to a style compatible with full ring.

The only thing to be careful when you start games, is that sometimes, the second player in the game is a shorthanded specialist, and they might play shorthanded very well, until the game starts to fill, and then they move on to another shorthanded game.

Re: Leave the table?
 

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I usually just get stuck and play for ten hours trying to get even.

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I concur

Re: Leave the table?
 

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When I'm playing a lot of tables, I usually end up dumping these tables within a lap or two, anyway, so I was just wondering if I shouldn't dump the table immediately.

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Feel free to leave the table for any reason you choose. This sounds like a very adequate reason. Game rejection is an important skill.

Re: Leave the table?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
i just tend to start new tables.

[/ QUOTE ]
IMO, this is an excellent way to find good games. In my experience loose, gambling players don't really like to join waiting lists. When a FR game gets going from a very SH gaame, I find they are often full of loose players and will often have the SH atmosphere about them long after they turn to FR.

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I've been doing this more and more recently. Seems to be working really well.