AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

Villan had loose stats, like 35/22 or something like that. No real read on his postflop play. Hero is TAGgy. Std here?

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
orange: $357.75
UTG+1: $142.85
CO: $51.15
Button: $203.55
SB: $238.55
BB: $198.75

Pre-flop: (6 players) orange is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">orange raises to $8</font>, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($26, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">orange bets $17</font>, UTG+1 folds, SB calls.

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($60, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">orange bets $44</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $98</font>, orange folds.

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

Your flop bet is kinda retarted.

edit: I mean, maybe a little bigger? Turn is standard I'd say. His line is hella strong. And so is yours.

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

flop bet bigger? what does 23 accomplish that 17 doesnt?

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

More on flop I think, this is a pretty good flop to cbet as far as multiway pots go.

Turn is definetely standard. What do you beat?

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

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flop bet bigger? what does 23 accomplish that 17 doesnt?

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NADA

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

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flop bet bigger? what does 23 accomplish that 17 doesnt?

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23 accomplishes nothing more. I play this hand same way.

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

I kind of disagree. I find that SSNL donks look for every reason to continue in a hand when they shouldn't. $23 truly says that "I mean business," while $17 could be construed as just a "c-bet that I can pick off cause I'm not just gonna get bullied PAL!!"

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

does no one check behind on this turn or is that awful?

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

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does no one check behind on this turn or is that awful?

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looks like an excellent texture to cbet to me

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

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does no one check behind on this turn or is that awful?

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looks like an excellent texture to cbet to me

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I think he was talking about the turn... I would sometimes check behind the turn, yeah.

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

eh villain would be on a spade draw or even have a wheel draw now. however if he has KJ/QJ/TJ then we want to check behind to get a vbet in on the river. THis also prevents us from being c/r'ed. So yeah perhaps a turn check would be good if we are hesitant to fold to a turn c/r.

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

For some reason I like to check behind turn here.

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flop bet bigger? what does 23 accomplish that 17 doesnt?

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For an observant villain 17 looks like you missed and 23 looks like you hit and want to protect your hand against a FD.

If I bet here, I'm betting at least 22.

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

I would bet a little more on flop, but thats just preference, not too important i dont think. On turn, i would continue to bet to charge draws, but really easy fold unless this guy is crazy and stacks off with trash. I like turn bet size.

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

Looks fine. I'm sure you would 2nd barrel alot here so you have to bet sometimes when you actually hit it to.

Paul

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

Yes villain might have AJ, but some will also min raise here to try and scare you with the A (assuming you havent hit really).

I really like checking behind on the turn and calling a river bet (often bluff), but two spades two clubs, err

Fold

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

im firing a 2nd barrell here w/ pretty much anything i raise with so no reason not to do it when you actually hit this turn. villains line is super strong so i like the fold since you havent given him a reason to think he can push you off

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

On an aside,

If villains stats are tighter ie. 18/16 as oppose to 35/22 should we bet this turn more frequently or less (meaning check behind)?

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

Orange,

Looks fine. Sucks that there are eleventy billion draws on the board, but your hand isn't going to improve on the river.

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

I have a harder time folding these hands. I don't think you can automatically put him on AJ, 55 or 22. Ax[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] has to be a decent portion of his range. I may convince myself to call vs a loose player.... leak?

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

yea pretty std. Well played

GL

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

I'd fold as well.

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

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flop bet bigger? what does 23 accomplish that 17 doesnt?

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NADA

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Might fold 66-TT with a bigger bet. Plus, wouldn't we bet $23 with AA, KK, QQ, JJ here?

As an aside, should our bet sizes be a larger or smaller fraction of the pot since we're 3-handed instead of HU here? Or neither?

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

I think I check behind on the turn...especially against an aggressive player for a few reasons:

1)might get him to fire the river w/ a busted draw
2)we get to showdown for almost the same price as bet/folding the turn
3)in the future he might bluff the river less often after I check behind on the turn...knowing I do it with some good hands as well as bad ones

And IMO...the flop bet is fine. If you really want to show that you mean business...I suppose $20 would be a good even number.

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

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flop bet bigger? what does 23 accomplish that 17 doesnt?

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NADA

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Might fold 66-TT with a bigger bet. Plus, wouldn't we bet $23 with AA, KK, QQ, JJ here?

As an aside, should our bet sizes be a larger or smaller fraction of the pot since we're 3-handed instead of HU here? Or neither?

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Definitly. Because a cbet into 2 villains shows more strength than cbetting into 1, its not a bad policy to reduce the size of your cbet. Reasoning being its a ballsy move betting into 2 opponents and also the fact that the chances the flop hit an opponent are higher and subsequently, our chances of getting called are higher as well. We lose little FE and we save money.

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

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As an aside, should our bet sizes be a larger or smaller fraction of the pot since we're 3-handed instead of HU here? Or neither?

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Definitly. Because a cbet into 2 villains shows more strength than cbetting into 1, its not a bad policy to reduce the size of your cbet. Reasoning being its a ballsy move betting into 2 opponents and also the fact that the chances the flop hit an opponent are higher and subsequently, our chances of getting called are higher as well. We lose little FE and we save money.

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But against more players, there's a larger number of outs for the someone from the group to hit on the turn (ie, 2 guys with mid pairs draw out on TPTK approx. as often as 1 guy with a fd). Wouldn't that suggest we should bet more in multiway pots the same way we bet more on coordinated boards?

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

looks standard.

I'd bet the same on the flop
I still think you're kind of lag-tardy orange

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

Sorry, I'm kinda new to poker, so I cant exactly follow the discussion here.

Could someone tell me what's the rationale behind betting on the flop? Seems like you're only drawing to 6 outs, plus a backdoor straight if someone has something like Jack pair.

Wont the $17 bet make your own odds lousier?

Would really appreciate an answer, thanks!

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

JamesLeong, its a standard c-bet, or continuation bet. The theory behind it is that villain folds about half of the times so its profitable right away + it will be easier to build a pot when you hit. Everybody does it.

Harrington on holdem explains when to do it etc pretty well.

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

looks fine. flop isnt very wet so i think flop bet size is fine.

Re: AQ [censored] pot control 3 or 4 or whatever
 

i don't think a set is very likely if he is agg pf... but at best you are prob facing an ace with a FD. pitch