Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

Everyone is bitching about their frozen Neteller funds. But this is not the big problem. The big problem is that the feds are using FORENSIC accountants to go over all the records Neteller has just handed them on a silver platter. Your records. Do you know when forensic accounting is used by the government? When they plan to file CRIMINAL charges. The forensic accountants the government is using on Neteller accounts are there to find any funds you have not reported to Uncle Sam, so they can nail you with CRIMINAL charges. Do not confuse this with a standard audit. With a standard audit, if the IRS nabs you for underreporting, you pay what you owe plus a penality--and usually(unless you really screwed them)--that is it. But Neteller is much different. It deals with hiding money overseas from the US government and many other issues. Here they can nail you with a variety of CRIMINAL charges too cumbersome and varied to cover (money laundering and international fraud are only a few). This is why they are using FORENSIC accountants and also why you should be much more worried about what they will find in your Neteller records and what they are going to do to you with this information. Frozen funds are a joke compared to this.

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

What field of expertise do you work in to back up your claim?

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

Those of us that payed our taxes have nothing to worry about, now [censored] off

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

baboonviper, why are you still posting? Can't you find another forum for your hysterical rantings?

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

OP,

As a 16 year police officer, let me say this to you. You are a moron.

DON\'T WORRY ABOUT FORENSIC ACCOUNTANTS
 

Why would the government spend millions on forensic accounting?

It would cost like $10M to recover $55M of funds. Even if they could recover, since that money is not necessarily income. It's just not worth it for Uncle Sam.

That's what the IRS is for, which is still not worth it for Uncle Sam.

Re: DON\'T WORRY ABOUT FORENSIC ACCOUNTANTS
 

hello gaboonviper, I was just wondering where you were this week [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

beat: apparently you're not splawndarts

Re: DON\'T WORRY ABOUT FORENSIC ACCOUNTANTS
 

From what Ive read, the government is using forensic accountants to look at records. What records is not known. What they plan to do with the reocrds is not known.

They may be looking at Neteller records as it relates to money laundering. They may be trying to make sure Americans get their money back and NT doesnt try to steal money. They may turn records over to the IRS. Its all just speculation.

This much I do know. The word "forensic" DOES NOT mean they are planning on filing criminal charges. It means the records are being looked at in relation to some sort of investigation. Whether or not that leads to charges being filed on someone could never be known until the investigation is over.

I really doubt these accountants are going to go over 2.5 million US members' accounts with a fine tooth comb, but as someone else said, pay your taxes and you dont have to worry about what they are looking into.

Re: DON\'T WORRY ABOUT FORENSIC ACCOUNTANTS
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why would the government spend millions on forensic accounting?

It would cost like $10M to recover $55M of funds. Even if they could recover, since that money is not necessarily income. It's just not worth it for Uncle Sam.

That's what the IRS is for, which is still not worth it for Uncle Sam.

[/ QUOTE ]

The government has no problem spending money as a precursor to filing criminal charges. Essentially all criminal prosecutions are massively -$ for the government, and they do it anyways because that's what the law says to do.

Lots of people are going to court over this - money laundering, fraud, and RICO charges are on the horizon.

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

[ QUOTE ]
OP,

As a 16 year police officer, let me say this to you. You are a moron.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not saying OP is right, but what does this have anything to do with the OP? You being a police officer I wouldnt think would give you inside info on how forensic accounting is used by the federal government.

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

[ QUOTE ]
The big problem is that the feds are using FORENSIC accountants to go over all the records Neteller has just handed them on a silver platter.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I'm not worried about frozen funds or forensic accountants my big problem is it's Valentine's day but my wife is having her "thing" and so I won't get laid even though I bought flowers and a card and candy. So, do you think I should get a hooker or would that cause me even bigger problems because maybe my wife wouldn't like that so much because, you know, we're married. And I suppose if I got a hooker I'd probably have to buy her flowers and candy and a card too because it's Valentine's day and that would cost me even more money than the sex and that would suck. Such a dilemma! What should I do, gaboon?

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone is bitching about their frozen Neteller funds. But this is not the big problem. The big problem is that the feds are using FORENSIC accountants to go over all the records Neteller has just handed them on a silver platter. Your records. Do you know when forensic accounting is used by the government? When they plan to file CRIMINAL charges. The forensic accountants the government is using on Neteller accounts are there to find any funds you have not reported to Uncle Sam, so they can nail you with CRIMINAL charges. Do not confuse this with a standard audit. With a standard audit, if the IRS nabs you for underreporting, you pay what you owe plus a penality--and usually(unless you really screwed them)--that is it. But Neteller is much different. It deals with hiding money overseas from the US government and many other issues. Here they can nail you with a variety of CRIMINAL charges too cumbersome and varied to cover (money laundering and international fraud are only a few). This is why they are using FORENSIC accountants and also why you should be much more worried about what they will find in your Neteller records and what they are going to do to you with this information. Frozen funds are a joke compared to this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm very worried about this. Once they find that I net lossed about $430 last year, I'm gonna be in big trouble. !!! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: DON\'T WORRY ABOUT FORENSIC ACCOUNTANTS
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why would the government spend millions on forensic accounting?

It would cost like $10M to recover $55M of funds. Even if they could recover, since that money is not necessarily income. It's just not worth it for Uncle Sam.

That's what the IRS is for, which is still not worth it for Uncle Sam.

[/ QUOTE ]

The government has no problem spending money as a precursor to filing criminal charges. Essentially all criminal prosecutions are massively -$ for the government, and they do it anyways because that's what the law says to do.

Lots of people are going to court over this - money laundering, fraud, and RICO charges are on the horizon.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're an idiot. There's a reason that only 600 people go to prison each year for tax fraud. The IRS doesn't start criminal investigations unless they can get a buttload of $$ (min 6 figures) or they can make a case against a celebrity for PR/scaring the public purposes.

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
OP,

As a 16 year police officer, let me say this to you. You are a moron.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not saying OP is right, but what does this have anything to do with the OP? You being a police officer I wouldnt think would give you inside info on how forensic accounting is used by the federal government.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please quote where I gave "inside info" on how its used by the federal government. All I did was tell you what the word "forensic" means.

Re: DON\'T WORRY ABOUT FORENSIC ACCOUNTANTS
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why would the government spend millions on forensic accounting?

It would cost like $10M to recover $55M of funds. Even if they could recover, since that money is not necessarily income. It's just not worth it for Uncle Sam.

That's what the IRS is for, which is still not worth it for Uncle Sam.

[/ QUOTE ]

The government has no problem spending money as a precursor to filing criminal charges. Essentially all criminal prosecutions are massively -$ for the government, and they do it anyways because that's what the law says to do.

Lots of people are going to court over this - money laundering, fraud, and RICO charges are on the horizon.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're an idiot. There's a reason that only 600 people go to prison each year for tax fraud. The IRS doesn't start criminal investigations unless they can get a buttload of $$ (min 6 figures) or they can make a case against a celebrity for PR/scaring the public purposes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not even talking about tax law yet. DOJ != IRS.

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone is bitching about their frozen Neteller funds. But this is not the big problem. The big problem is that the feds are using FORENSIC accountants to go over all the records Neteller has just handed them on a silver platter. Your records. Do you know when forensic accounting is used by the government? When they plan to file CRIMINAL charges. The forensic accountants the government is using on Neteller accounts are there to find any funds you have not reported to Uncle Sam, so they can nail you with CRIMINAL charges. Do not confuse this with a standard audit. With a standard audit, if the IRS nabs you for underreporting, you pay what you owe plus a penality--and usually(unless you really screwed them)--that is it. But Neteller is much different. It deals with hiding money overseas from the US government and many other issues. Here they can nail you with a variety of CRIMINAL charges too cumbersome and varied to cover (money laundering and international fraud are only a few). This is why they are using FORENSIC accountants and also why you should be much more worried about what they will find in your Neteller records and what they are going to do to you with this information. Frozen funds are a joke compared to this.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you didn't pay taxes though, that's more serious. That, I do.

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

[ QUOTE ]


If you didn't pay taxes though, that's more serious. That, I do.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the DOJ brings RICO charges because you derived income from a racketeering operation, it won't matter if you paid your taxes or not.

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

[ QUOTE ]
If the DOJ brings RICO charges because you derived income from a racketeering operation, it won't matter if you paid your taxes or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Derive income" here being the issue which is key. See my prior post. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

millions of Americans have played online poker

they dont have room for us behind bars

not to mention the huge public relations disaster that would be

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the DOJ brings RICO charges because you derived income from a racketeering operation, it won't matter if you paid your taxes or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Derive income" here being the issue which is key. See my prior post. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, my bad, you're fine. You can't prosecute the victims of a racket with RICO [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

[ QUOTE ]
millions of Americans have played online poker

they dont have room for us behind bars

not to mention the huge public relations disaster that would be

[/ QUOTE ]

That is true. They'll go after the people who derived the most income from the racket, and then go into charge-n-bargain mode to extract fines out of a larger population. Then the IRS will go after the income and bored junior state DAs will get into the act (since online poker is not an approved form of gambling in any state).

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

summary: lol splawnaments

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

I normally like to keep it to one, but today Im going to have to call a second person a moron.

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

In other news, every state has been ordered to build 50 new federal prison complexes by the end of 2007.

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

[ QUOTE ]
In other news, every state has been ordered to build 50 new federal prison complexes by the end of 2007.

[/ QUOTE ]

At least it will be easy to play poker now. All the time in the world, all my poker buddies living in one place.

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

Isn't this a DOJ investigation, and isn't there some sharing of information act or something prohibiting federal agencies from sharing certain information uncovered during an investigation?

For example, if I understand correctly, if I report drug dealing money as income for IRS, the IRS can't legally go and tell my local law enforcement agency to arrest me.

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't this a DOJ investigation, and isn't there some sharing of information act or something prohibiting federal agencies from sharing certain information uncovered during an investigation?

For example, if I understand correctly, if I report drug dealing money as income for IRS, the IRS can't legally go and tell my local law enforcement agency to arrest me.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is patently false.

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

OP, you are moron, and maybe a paranoid schizofrenic.

I stopped reading your post half way through. The IRS is underfunded and undermanned. They sure as hell do not have crack storm squads of accountants ready to fan out across the country tracking down every last internet poker player.

Sure, they'll go over the info and go after the people who'll be easiest to go after or get money from, but this fear mongering is just so over the top.

Re: DON\'T WORRY ABOUT FORENSIC ACCOUNTANTS
 

[ QUOTE ]
From what Ive read, the government is using forensic accountants to look at records. What records is not known. What they plan to do with the reocrds is not known.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

I think that they will go after high-profile celebrity poker stars, then anyone not claiming 6 figure incomes, then 5 figure incomes, but nothing under that. They have limited manpower and will try and get the best Bang for their Buck (To set an example).

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think that they will go after high-profile celebrity poker stars, then anyone not claiming 6 figure incomes, then 5 figure incomes, but nothing under that. They have limited manpower and will try and get the best Bang for their Buck (To set an example).

[/ QUOTE ]

At the moment they are going after the Neteller founders... there is no reason to believe, at the moment, that they are going after individual poker players.

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

Guys, as I've said many times, just pay your taxes and sleep well. I'm claiming every dollar on my taxes this year that I made from poker. I started using Neteller in 2006, so there's absolutely no reason for not to claim it all, especially now that we know that neteller is handing over records.

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

I agree - if you haven't paid your taxes you deserve to sweat about this, and there is a remedy available to you.

If you are worried about being arrested for playing alone, I think you worry too much (obviously the chance isn't 0, but you probably have more to worry about from falling airplane parts, etc.)

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The big problem is that the feds are using FORENSIC accountants to go over all the records Neteller has just handed them on a silver platter.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I'm not worried about frozen funds or forensic accountants my big problem is it's Valentine's day but my wife is having her "thing" and so I won't get laid even though I bought flowers and a card and candy. So, do you think I should get a hooker or would that cause me even bigger problems because maybe my wife wouldn't like that so much because, you know, we're married. And I suppose if I got a hooker I'd probably have to buy her flowers and candy and a card too because it's Valentine's day and that would cost me even more money than the sex and that would suck. Such a dilemma! What should I do, gaboon?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you still treated her like your valentine, it will be extra +EV this weekend. Good Luck [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The big problem is that the feds are using FORENSIC accountants to go over all the records Neteller has just handed them on a silver platter.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I'm not worried about frozen funds or forensic accountants my big problem is it's Valentine's day but my wife is having her "thing" and so I won't get laid even though I bought flowers and a card and candy. So, do you think I should get a hooker or would that cause me even bigger problems because maybe my wife wouldn't like that so much because, you know, we're married. And I suppose if I got a hooker I'd probably have to buy her flowers and candy and a card too because it's Valentine's day and that would cost me even more money than the sex and that would suck. Such a dilemma! What should I do, gaboon?

[/ QUOTE ]

Most women are wicked horny on their period. What's your wife's problem?

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

I plan on paying taxes on the cashouts I made last year, but I don't at all feel comfortable paying taxes on the 6K i have frozen right now being that its indefinite and I may never get my hands on it. After all, its not income if you can never spend it, it might just as well have been play money. What are your thoughts on this.

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Isn't this a DOJ investigation, and isn't there some sharing of information act or something prohibiting federal agencies from sharing certain information uncovered during an investigation?

For example, if I understand correctly, if I report drug dealing money as income for IRS, the IRS can't legally go and tell my local law enforcement agency to arrest me.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is patently false.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps you can expand on that?

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

90%+ of all poker players are net losers. So we would have to assume that the IRS is pouring all of this effort into trying to catch the ~ 10% who actually make money. Of that 10%, you're likely to have a nice curve that starts off with most people making chump change and sloping down quickly as the amount won goes up. Of all the winners, I'm going to speculate that over 50% are on the chump change side of the curve.

My guess is that the IRS is hoping to accomplish the following:

a) Find a few big fish who have under-reported income.

b) Put together a mountain of evidence against the online gaming sites plus gather evidence on other illegal activities.

That's not an a or b answer. It's a and b. I really don't think the IRS is going to get it's panties in a bunch and spend all of that money to go after some guy who netted out +$300 last year and failed to claim it. They do want to go after a guy who netted out +$300,000 and didn't report it though.

I also believe this is a data gathering exercise that they feel they can use in further criminal cases against sports books, online casinos, etc. I mean, let's face it, does anybody really think that bookies aren't laying off action to online sports books? There's likely to be mob money washing around inside Neteller too. Hundreds of millions of dollars are moving around and the US gov knows that some of it is up to no good. They want those accountants in there looking for the fishy activity that might lead them to taking down a major sports book operation (not online), money laundering, and other big arrests.

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

There's no reason to worry about this unless you cheated the government out of six figures or more (and this does apply to some people on this site). There aren't enough prosecutors in the country to go after everyone who should neglected to mention earning a couple k from online gambling.

Re: Dont worry about Frozen Funds. Worry about Forensic Accountants
 

I've paid all my taxes and filed my FBAR reports, but if they really start filing criminal charges against people for playing poker online, I will just leave this [censored] fascist regime and never come back.

Hell, I'd rather live in a Communist country where at least they're level-headed atheists who don't pretend they're ass-raping you for your own good.