Law School Brag
 

Brag - I got a full ride scholarship to Baylor Law School. To those who don't know it's barely top 50, great for trial law and doesn't have the religous crap like the undergraduate program.

Beat - I hate waco, this was the ultimate safety school that I had no intention of going to and and now this free money might make me pass up a slightly better school/city/life etc. to go there because I don't want debt. Oh yeah my mom offered to help pay for some of school, but she probably won't if she finds out.

Should, I go into debt for some top 20 schools or am I a naive kid who doesn't realize that a full tuition scholarship is awesome and debt sucks?

Re: Law School Brag
 

isn't there more school snobbery in law than in any other profession? won't you make big $$$ right off the bat if you graduate from a top 10 school?

Re: Law School Brag
 

Full ride is sweet, depends on the alternative and your specific plans though.

Re: Law School Brag
 

go into debt for a top 20 school over baylor. its not close. law is extremely snobby about where you went to school.

Re: Law School Brag
 

this is a good thread for The Dorm, as there are some good threads there. i'm a lawyer who has gone through the hiring process on both sides, and i'm of the opinion that nothing speaks like a degree from a top 20, the higher the better. i think it's a +EV move for pretty much anyone to go to the highest ranked school they get into, regardless of scholarship. lawyers get paid pretty well, so paying off the school loans is no prob generally. a better school will just open more doors. others (drewdevil) disagree and think that loans are a burden to run and hide from.

Re: Law School Brag
 

Yeah school snobbery is strong I've heard. On the other hand I know of older people who have gone to obscure [censored] schools making $500k a year so who knows. If I get into Michigan or Duke i'm going to one of those for sure, but I applied to some other school that i'm not sure are worth giving something like this up.

Re: Law School Brag
 

Have you considered getting a full ride to Iowa Law only to drop out and play poker? It worked for me.

FWIW: Lawschool is a beat.

Re: Law School Brag
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah school snobbery is strong I've heard. On the other hand I know of older people who have gone to obscure [censored] schools making $500k a year so who knows. If I get into Michigan or Duke i'm going to one of those for sure, but I applied to some other school that i'm not sure are worth giving something like this up.

[/ QUOTE ]

go to the other schools if they're ranked higher than baylor. also consider that going to school in a big city can also work to your benefit as some firms are very loyal to their city schools. at least that's how I hear people from saint louis university get jobs.

Re: Law School Brag
 

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW: Lawschool is a beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed

Re: Law School Brag
 

[ QUOTE ]
Have you considered getting a full ride to Iowa Law only to drop out and play poker? It worked for me.

FWIW: Lawschool is a beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed

Iowa Hawks FTW (law class of 2005)

Re: Law School Brag
 

[ QUOTE ]
this is a good thread for The Dorm, as there are some good threads there. i'm a lawyer who has gone through the hiring process on both sides, and i'm of the opinion that nothing speaks like a degree from a top 20, the higher the better. i think it's a +EV move for pretty much anyone to go to the highest ranked school they get into, regardless of scholarship. lawyers get paid pretty well, so paying off the school loans is no prob generally. a better school will just open more doors. others (drewdevil) disagree and think that loans are a burden to run and hide from.

[/ QUOTE ]

Though about posting in the dorm, but I figured it would go unanswered for a week.

FYI here is the list of schools to which I applied. I think top 20 is worth rejecting Baylor, but maybe nothing else.

#8 Michigan
#11 Duke
#13 Cornell
#14 Georgetown
#15 UCLA
#16 UT - Austin
#17 Vanderbilt
#22 Notre Dame
#27 William and Mary
#37 George Mason
#39 Ohio State
#43 SMU
#51 Baylor

Re: Law School Brag
 

Depends what kind of job you want to get after school. If you want to get a "top job" where you can work 100 hours a week, do lots of coke and sleep under your desk (and possibly never make partner), Baylor might not cut it. If you see yourself eventually being your own man, save the money. Get your license and go make a name for yourself in practice. I say be a Bear.

Good luck with teh defective widgets and teh Learned Hand BP&L from Carroll Towing.

Re: Law School Brag
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is a good thread for The Dorm, as there are some good threads there. i'm a lawyer who has gone through the hiring process on both sides, and i'm of the opinion that nothing speaks like a degree from a top 20, the higher the better. i think it's a +EV move for pretty much anyone to go to the highest ranked school they get into, regardless of scholarship. lawyers get paid pretty well, so paying off the school loans is no prob generally. a better school will just open more doors. others (drewdevil) disagree and think that loans are a burden to run and hide from.

[/ QUOTE ]

Though about posting in the dorm, but I figured it would go unanswered for a week.

FYI here is the list of schools to which I applied. I think top 20 is worth rejecting Baylor, but maybe nothing else.

#8 Michigan
#11 Duke
#13 Cornell
#14 Georgetown
#15 UCLA
#16 UT - Austin
#17 Vanderbilt
#22 Notre Dame
#27 William and Mary
#37 George Mason
#39 Ohio State
#43 SMU
#51 Baylor

[/ QUOTE ]

other than probably SMU, I disagree personally, but you have to do what you want and what will make you happy.

Re: Law School Brag
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW: Lawschool is a beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems to be the consensus of almost everyone, but I'm just some idiot with a dream I guess.

Re: Law School Brag
 

[ QUOTE ]
#8 Michigan
#11 Duke
#13 Cornell
#14 Georgetown
#15 UCLA
#16 UT - Austin
#17 Vanderbilt
#22 Notre Dame
#27 William and Mary
#37 George Mason
#39 Ohio State
#43 SMU
#51 Baylor

[/ QUOTE ]

If you want to practice/live in Texas, I think you can pass all of these up for a free ride *easily* tbh...otherwise, probably go to UCLA and up, pass up everything lower. 95K in student loans really sucks, and keep in mind that BIGLAW isn't nearly as cool once you factor in opportunity cost etc.

(Michigan Law '05. holla.)

Re: Law School Brag
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW: Lawschool is a beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems to be the consensus of almost everyone, but I'm just some idiot with a dream I guess.

[/ QUOTE ]

To hell with these guys, if you want to be a lawyer go for it. There are plenty of unhappy lawyers who will try to sell you this crap; as if they wouldn't suck at life if only they would have chosen to be a UPS man or something.

Re: Law School Brag
 

I thought 2+2 was all degenerates, and 19 year old college dropouts, does everyone have a law degree here?

Re: Law School Brag
 

[ QUOTE ]

(Michigan Law '05. holla.)

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored] the wolverines. holla.

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Law School Brag
 

[ QUOTE ]
Depends what kind of job you want to get after school. If you want to get a "top job" where you can work 100 hours a week, do lots of coke and sleep under your desk (and possibly never make partner), Baylor might not cut it. If you see yourself eventually being your own man, save the money.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this post. Never underestimate how big a pain it can be repaying huge student loans. And practicing at a big firm flat out sucks. Go to Baylor, graduate debt free and if you do well there you can still get a good job in Texas. You'll also enjoy your law school experience more being a big fish in a little pond. I went to a second tier law school and did very well there, while I probably would have been middle of the pack at an Ivy League school. It's more fun being the big fish.

Re: Law School Brag
 

I went to a lower then #50 ranked law school and cracked BIGLAW pretty easy. I had a really good excuse for going to a second tier school though (I worked full-time and was married with two kids so I needed evening classes; ranked #1 in my class).

Re: Law School Brag
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Depends what kind of job you want to get after school. If you want to get a "top job" where you can work 100 hours a week, do lots of coke and sleep under your desk (and possibly never make partner), Baylor might not cut it. If you see yourself eventually being your own man, save the money.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this post. Never underestimate how big a pain it can be repaying huge student loans. And practicing at a big firm flat out sucks. Go to Baylor, graduate debt free and if you do well there you can still get a good job in Texas. You'll also enjoy your law school experience more being a big fish in a little pond. I went to a second tier law school and did very well there, while I probably would have been middle of the pack at an Ivy League school. It's more fun being the big fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

i generally agree, but let me give a couple sentences of counterpoint. i have literally sat in hiring meetings with my colleagues and looked at applicants who were top 5 in their class at a 40-70 school, and the question that always comes up is "why didn't they go to [insert random top tier school in the same state]?" At least where I work, middle of the road at a top 20 will get you more looks than top 5 at a middling school. but yes law school on top of the mountain is fun.

Re: Law School Brag
 

what happens if youre middle of the class in a 40-70 school [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

Re: Law School Brag
 

[ QUOTE ]
what happens if youre middle of the class in a 40-70 school [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

you don't get discussed at all

Re: Law School Brag
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what happens if youre middle of the class in a 40-70 school [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

you don't get discussed at all

[/ QUOTE ]

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck


heh, jk. while i will likely end up in that sort of situation, i am fortunate in that im not really interested in "biglaw." i'm an environmental law geek; my understanding is that NPOs and government agencies take what they can get.


although i think i may have just made up that "understanding" to make myself feel better.

Re: Law School Brag
 

[ QUOTE ]

i generally agree, but let me give a couple sentences of counterpoint. i have literally sat in hiring meetings with my colleagues and looked at applicants who were top 5 in their class at a 40-70 school, and the question that always comes up is "why didn't they go to [insert random top tier school in the same state]?" At least where I work, middle of the road at a top 20 will get you more looks than top 5 at a middling school. but yes law school on top of the mountain is fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

If your goal in life is to go to a big law firm (i.e. you place money and prestige over having any quality of life) then maybe the better school is the right choice. But I tried the big firm life and absolutely hated it, so make sure that's really what you want to do. So many law students blindly chase "prestige" like salmon swimming upstream without considering what kind of life (or lack thereof) they will have a big firm.

I got lucky- I was able to ditch my big firm gig for a career federal clerkship - so I speak from the perspective of someone looking to avoid big firm life. But I know a lot of law students still want the big firms, and if that's the case, then yes- your chances are better if you go to a top school.

Re: Law School Brag
 

Full Ride = Sweet

Waco = HUGE beat

Re: Law School Brag
 

where are these rankings of law schools available, and is there equivalent info for med and grad schools in specific fields?

Re: Law School Brag
 

Law school is a beat, I think it sucks.

That said, where do you want to practice? If it's in Texas then go to Baylor. If not, go to the better school.

If I remember correctly, I got a brochure from Baylor and they boasted how much "harder" their school was than every other law school. I don't know why that is a brag but it turned me off from there (even though I knew I wouldn't go to Texas anyway, but still).

Re: Law School Brag
 

[ QUOTE ]
where are these rankings of law schools available, and is there equivalent info for med and grad schools in specific fields?

[/ QUOTE ]

www.usnews.com

The rankings for law school are more competitive and important than for med school and grad school...it's actually pretty crazy how some people are with that crap

Re: Law School Brag
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW: Lawschool is a beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Law School Brag
 

OP: if you want to practice Big law, you would be an idiot to go to Baylor. Go to the highest ranked school that takes you.

Re: Law School Brag
 

I would go to UT if you get in...

Re: Law School Brag
 

[ QUOTE ]
go into debt for a top 20 school over baylor. its not close. law is extremely snobby about where you went to school.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Law School Brag
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what happens if youre middle of the class in a 40-70 school [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

you don't get discussed at all

[/ QUOTE ]

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck


heh, jk. while i will likely end up in that sort of situation, i am fortunate in that im not really interested in "biglaw." i'm an environmental law geek; my understanding is that NPOs and government agencies take what they can get.


although i think i may have just made up that "understanding" to make myself feel better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate to break it to you, but I work at a government agency, so my comments were applicable to that as well. However I do not work in environmental law, but I do know some people at ENRD and hear similar things from them. I can't speak for NPO's though.

Re: Law School Brag
 

You can make money right out of law school where-ever you go if you play your cards right.

I wouldn't go to law school if I were you though, being a lawyer sucks balls.

Re: Law School Brag
 

alright there are a couple things that need to be discussed
1) You will most likely not get talked to by the big firms that pay a lot of money if you go to a law school outside of the top 30. Name recognition is the key factor in getting into these firms. The only way to end up at these big firms, if not at a top 30 school, is if: you have established great connections, you're number one in your class, or give them a good reason for being at the law school you're at.
2) Where you usually end up after law school all depends on how you do in your first year. If you end up first in your class in your first year, then you will most likely end up interning for a solid firm during the summer. If you do a good job interning for them, then you will receieve an offer from them before you graduate law school school.

Re: Law School Brag
 

If you want to practice in Texas, you should seriously consider going to Baylor (disclaimer: I didn't). Unless you're talking about getting into Ivy League or perhaps UT, I don't think you can go wrong with Baylor, especially if you want to be a litigator. My firm is full of outstanding Baylor litigators.

Re: Law School Brag
 

[ QUOTE ]
2) Where you usually end up after law school all depends on how you do in your first year. If you end up first in your class in your first year, then you will most likely end up interning for a solid firm during the summer. If you do a good job interning for them, then you will receieve an offer from them before you graduate law school school.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely spot on advice.

Re: Law School Brag
 

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't go to law school if I were you though, being a lawyer sucks balls.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFMFT.

Srsly, though, where you want to live and what you want to do is very relevant to your decision. If you want to live in Texas and don't want to work 90 hours a week for the next 15 years, Baylor should be just fine. If you do want to work that much, being at the top of your class at Baylor should be enough to get you a look at plenty of Texas biglaw firms.

If you don't know where you want to live and you're willing to work your [censored] off, go Top 20. You'll ring up an impressive debt load, but as long as you're in the top quarter of your class you can get it back by slaving away for biglaw.

Personally, I'd happily give back my borderline Top 20 degree in exchange for having my loans forgiven. Even though I make good money, having a student loan payment that's as big as my mortgage sucks [censored].

Re: Law School Brag
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't go to law school if I were you though, being a lawyer sucks balls.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFMFT.

Srsly, though, where you want to live and what you want to do is very relevant to your decision. If you want to live in Texas and don't want to work 90 hours a week for the next 15 years, Baylor should be just fine. If you do want to work that much, being at the top of your class at Baylor should be enough to get you a look at plenty of Texas biglaw firms.

If you don't know where you want to live and you're willing to work your [censored] off, go Top 20. You'll ring up an impressive debt load, but as long as you're in the top quarter of your class you can get it back by slaving away for biglaw.

Personally, I'd happily give back my borderline Top 20 degree in exchange for having my loans forgiven. Even though I make good money, having a student loan payment that's as big as my mortgage sucks [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

dis all be da truf. but consider this. what exactly do u want to do with your law degree, or do u not know. i went to a decent school, Stetson (which is supposed to be one of the top trial schools, but hardly noticeable otherwise) that cost a pretty penny. finished right smack dab in the middle of the class but i always knew that i wasn't going to work for anyone else.

i got out about 4 years ago and failed in my first firm, but started a new one with a partner and now have a thriving firm with 25 employees.

i also have a few friends that i graduated with that were in the same boat. two buddies did 2.5 years in the public defenders office and went out on their own and now make 6 figures and work about 30 hours a week. yeah, they have to deal with criminals a lot but hey someone has too.

we all say the same thing, paying for law school if we didnt have to is a NO BRAINER. if you intend on working for yourself, all you need to do is pass the bar, thats it.

another thing, if you do want to work for a big firm consider this, i know a lot of people who didnt graduate in top 10% or even from great schools who were able to get really good jobs right out of school just because they were on law review. its a ton of work to do while you are in school, but supposedly big firms love law review people as first year associates because of the amount of writing you have to do before they give you any court experience