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-   -   2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=330411)

NajdorfDefense 02-12-2007 09:58 PM

2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
Well, it's time for this classic rivalry again, one of the 5 biggest in cbb, and I think the line is low.

Princeton @
Penn -12/-13 on the overnite line right now.

Penn is 4-2 ATS Ivies, Tigers are 0-6. Penn is first in the Ivies, Princeton is last, with only one win, at home.

Penn has 121 Sagarin ranking, and 156 SoS,
Princeton has 216 Sagarin, and #287 SoS, that's pathetic.

Penn's played at Cuse, at UNC, at SHall, Nova, Temple. Princeton's been playing Manhatan, VMI, Iona, NDSt, Rutgers out-of-conf. And losing to 298-rated Dartmouth at home.

Penn has beaten Temple and Drexel this year, both of whom have a shot at making the Tourney, Temple just upset A10 leader UMass and has run off 4 in a row.

Penn and Princeton have 7 opponents in common, Penn went 5-2, Princeton went 1-6. Differential in margin of victory was 23ppg. That's fairly sizable. Both lost to SHall, Penn by 9 and Tigers by 38. Penn won at Cornell by 18, Tigers lost by 20. at Columbia by 26, Princeton lost by 8. Penn beat Dartmouth at home by 20 last week, Tigers lost by 1 as a 13-pt favorite. Penn beat Brown at Brown by 16, Princeton lost by 15 as a Pick'em.

Princeton's 'best' game is a 6 pt loss at 114-rated SoCar. Penn's would be a 19-pt win over 75-rated Drexel.

Penn avg 78ppg at home, Princeton 51 on the road.
Penn shoots 48%, Tigers 41%. In conf 48% v 38% for Tigers.
Penn is better at passing, rebounding, blocks, better 3-pt shooting, both 69% FTs.
Penn has won 8 of 10 while Tigers lost 6 of 7.

This line opened at 13.5 last year, moved to 15, Penn won by 19. I expect similar things this year, but the line may not move that much this time. Penn is not as good as when they almost beat Texas in March, but Princeton is much worse - this is *not* your typical Princeton squad, last year they were 5-1 in conf for this game, not 1-5.
The Palestra is one of the toughest places to play in the country, it is a tiny bandbox and the fans literally sit along the sideline in many places.

Penn's new coach will be especially motivated as this is his first, and biggest, home game of the Year. Penn's seniors will not want to end their career v Princeton with anything but a blowout win, they will not let up in this one. Penn played awful in first half last year [shot 30%, tons of TOs] and was still up 10 at the half.

This will not be my biggest bet of the regular season like it was last year, but I'll start with 2 units and hope someone bets the line down for me.

The O/U is a super-low 111, however U has hit 9 of 15 lines under 120 for Princeton. {Penn hasn't played any lined that low.} I'd lean Under, but am afraid of a 66-50 sort of game if 3s are falling, but Princeton's scored under 50 11 times so far. Princeton is 5-10 ATS when the total is this low, showing that slowball doesn't make it a close game by itself.

rush66 02-13-2007 09:37 AM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
Im thinking of following you here. Several of these rivalries games have gone into OT in the past few years. Also, are you a penn alumni? Are you not worried about the defnese of princeton slowing penn down at all? Or is that number low b/c of SOS. Thanks.

Rush

beetman 02-13-2007 12:05 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
I lean under as well, I made the total around 107.

NajdorfDefense 02-13-2007 04:46 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
[ QUOTE ]
Im thinking of following you here. Several of these rivalries games have gone into OT in the past few years. Also, are you a penn alumni? Are you not worried about the defnese of princeton slowing penn down at all? Or is that number low b/c of SOS. Thanks.

Rush

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not an alumnus. Princeton's D is already factored into the line, of course.

NajdorfDefense 02-13-2007 04:47 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
U112 at Cris.

rush66 02-13-2007 04:47 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
If Koncz doesnt play, -12.5 should be money.

NajdorfDefense 02-13-2007 06:58 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
[ QUOTE ]
If Koncz doesnt play, -12.5 should be money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Buffmire as well, but they might have been rested for this game. Something I'll be watching for, definitely.

rush66 02-13-2007 07:10 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
Any idea why this line has been bouncing between 12.5 and 13 most of the day?

Jazzy3113 02-13-2007 07:17 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
i go to penn and penn is a lock to win and about 80 percent to cover

TheFish 02-13-2007 07:49 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
5 cows

NajdorfDefense 02-13-2007 07:50 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
Because that's what lines do? Why not? I'm not sure I understand the query.

beetman 02-13-2007 07:55 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
I've bet un112.

beetman 02-13-2007 07:57 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
I think the spread is correct at -13, and keep in mind that it's a bit difficult to cover a 13 point spread in a game where there should be so few possessions per team.

NajdorfDefense 02-13-2007 07:58 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
down to 12 at Cris. I'm on it.

NajdorfDefense 02-13-2007 08:01 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
-900 ML bridgejumper at Cris available

NajdorfDefense 02-13-2007 08:06 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think the spread is correct at -13, and keep in mind that it's a bit difficult to cover a 13 point spread in a game where there should be so few possessions per team.

[/ QUOTE ]

1) That's factored in already.
2) That was true last year when Princeton was better and lost by 19.
3) Last time they were a solid dog - 7.5pts they lost by 38.
Penn averages 78 and Tigers 51, so Vegas seems to have priced that correctly if only by cutting it in half.

Having said all that Tigers could come out and shoot the lights out. Who knows? That's why it's called gambling.

WaterOlay 02-13-2007 08:10 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
I liked princeton and the points so i just laid off gl to you guys and penn

TheFish 02-13-2007 08:11 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
good start - rip their throats out!

NajdorfDefense 02-13-2007 08:13 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
Hey, you're supposed to bet the line down for me!

Weird, Harvard is 3-5 Ivy with 2 OT losses. Princeton is 1-6, 1-1 OT. Harvard last w/e was a 17.5pt dog at Penn, to the Tigers 12pts tonite. That 5pts seems a bit big, no? Harvard did lose in OT at Princeton, but still.

NajdorfDefense 02-13-2007 08:14 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
Koncz not starting...but is now in the game.

NajdorfDefense 02-13-2007 08:17 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
Jabber, let's not be a turnover machine like this game last year in the first half.

WaterOlay 02-13-2007 08:37 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hey, you're supposed to bet the line down for me!

Weird, Harvard is 3-5 Ivy with 2 OT losses. Princeton is 1-6, 1-1 OT. Harvard last w/e was a 17.5pt dog at Penn, to the Tigers 12pts tonite. That 5pts seems a bit big, no? Harvard did lose in OT at Princeton, but still.

[/ QUOTE ]

the only reason i say i would play princeton is bc of what you just said. Something very fishy is going on IMO

rush66 02-13-2007 08:41 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
I have a funny feeling this game lands right on 13 because of what I saw from line movements today.

MyTurn2Raise 02-13-2007 09:12 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
[ QUOTE ]
I lean under as well, I made the total around 107.

[/ QUOTE ]

you must be using the same resources as me

MyTurn2Raise 02-13-2007 10:10 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
[ QUOTE ]
I have a funny feeling this game lands right on 13 because of what I saw from line movements today.

[/ QUOTE ]


GOLD!!!

rush66 02-13-2007 10:13 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
Well, this is why I posted my question/comment about the movements. I watched this line like a hawk today. It would got to 13 creep down for about 2 hours to 12.5 stay there for 20 minutes then hop back up. One book hit 13.5 and it was for like 1 minute literally. Someone out there hit a middle. I hit the 13 too early before i realized the deal with the line.

brendanb438 02-13-2007 10:19 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
Was on the -12.5 and the 2nd half under 58.5 at WSEX. Wish I bet it all on the 2nd half under, no way these teams were gonna score that many.

-Brendan

ImNew 02-13-2007 10:21 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
phew, gotta love the extra half point.
but Dallas screwed me up at Mil...

NajdorfDefense 02-13-2007 10:23 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
I don't know what you mean, it was at 12 for several minutes before tipoff at a majority of books.

WaterOlay 02-13-2007 10:24 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know what you mean, it was at 12 for several minutes before tipoff at a majority of books.

[/ QUOTE ]

definitely ended at almost all books at -12 or -12.5 gg unless you got it at 13 then unfortunate

rush66 02-13-2007 10:28 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
Yea, like I said, I took it very early in the day at 13.

ImNew 02-13-2007 10:29 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
I had Princeton +13.5

rush66 02-13-2007 10:29 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
Guess everyone won but me, oh well.

NajdorfDefense 02-13-2007 10:31 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
Well, if you told me Penn would miss 40% of their FTs, score 21 in the second half, hit one 3 all game [right at the open] and score <50 points, I'dve marked this as an outright loss on my bridgejumper.

However, Princeton is every bit as bad as indicated, even with Penn missing at *least* 7 open layups and putbacks, and purely throwing the ball away on 4-5 fastbreaks and entry passes, Penn not only wins but covers 48-35 for a solid 83 point total, under covering by 29! Princeton now 5-11 ats with totals this low and Under 10 of 16 similarly.

Sweated it out, but 3 units won ats, 1 unit on ML.
5-5 on year cbb for profits of 5.1 units including last nite's wins on Santa Clara.

New001 02-13-2007 10:32 PM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
As always, thanks for the play. -12.5 and the under were golden.

NajdorfDefense 02-14-2007 12:21 AM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hey, you're supposed to bet the line down for me!
Harvard did lose in OT at Princeton, but still.

[/ QUOTE ]

the only reason i say i would play princeton is bc of what you just said. Something very fishy is going on IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

BTW, your reply made no sense and smacked of noob logic. I say Penn -12 is a good bet and you think it is a 'trap' game by the books in Princeton's favor? LOL_trapaments.

ojsdaman 02-14-2007 03:23 AM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
Najdorf- Thanks for the play. I appreciate you posting it in the forum.

beetman 02-14-2007 05:11 AM

Re: 2/13 VDay Special - Penn v Princeton - War at the Palestra
 
Biff wants his almanac back.


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