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Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
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Re: Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
2 explanations I can think of.
1. Running bad 2. The insurgants got a hold of some surface to air missiles. I recall hearing a report that the insurgants made a video of one of one of the downings. On the video, there was a sound of a missle being launched. |
Re: Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
Deserts are hard on helicopters...
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Re: Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
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Deserts are hard on helicopters... [/ QUOTE ] I think if that was the case we would have lost a lot more years ago. If a copter has been over there for any length of time, I'm sure it has gone through at least a couple complete overhauls. Stu |
Re: Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
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2. The insurgants got a hold of some surface to air missiles. I recall hearing a report that the insurgants made a video of one of one of the downings. On the video, there was a sound of a missle being launched. [/ QUOTE ] I think this is the case. Who do you think supplied the missles and what should we do about it? Stu |
Re: Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
Did this start as a clever ruse to advocate declaring war on Iran?
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Re: Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
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Did this start as a clever ruse to advocate declaring war on Iran? [/ QUOTE ] If Iran is supplying these weapons what do you think we should do about it? Stu |
Re: Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
Well seeing as how this chopper went down in Anbar province, I suggest we invade Iraq!
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Re: Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
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[ QUOTE ] Did this start as a clever ruse to advocate declaring war on Iran? [/ QUOTE ] If Iran is supplying these weapons what do you think we should do about it? Stu [/ QUOTE ] So the answer was yes. |
Re: Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
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Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq? [/ QUOTE ] It is all Bush's fault. |
Re: Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
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So the answer was yes. [/ QUOTE ] no, my intention was just to throw the subject out there and see where it went(like the "Should the state force little girls" thread). but since you did bring up Iran, do you think we should take military action against Iran if they are providing missles to shoot down our copters? Stu |
Re: Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
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It is all Bush's fault. [/ QUOTE ] In hindsight we should tried to democratize Iraq during the first gulf war. Stu |
Re: Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
i dunno, do we invade russia or china every time they sell weapons to countries we are trying to liberate?
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Re: Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
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[ QUOTE ] So the answer was yes. [/ QUOTE ] no, my intention was just to throw the subject out there and see where it went(like the "Should the state force little girls" thread). but since you did bring up Iran, do you think we should take military action against Iran if they are providing missles to shoot down our copters? Stu [/ QUOTE ] That opens up a hole new can of worms with an over-extended military. And a war-exhausted public. The consequences of bombing Iran will probably be worse than not. |
Re: Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
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That opens up a hole new can of worms with an over-extended military. And a war-exhausted public. The consequences of bombing Iran will probably be worse than not. [/ QUOTE ] So your answer is no. Stu |
Re: Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
I'm all for tracking them down within Iraq.
But the answer is "no" for launching missles at their infrastructure. |
Re: Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
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i dunno, do we invade russia or china every time they sell weapons to countries we are trying to liberate? [/ QUOTE ] Depends on how much the weapon system threatens us. We were ready to go to war with them over a few missles in Cuba. Stu |
What to do? Easy....
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I think this is the case. Who do you think supplied the missles and what should we do about it? [/ QUOTE ] Russian made missles sold to Iran. Iran gives the missles to the insurgents. What to do? Cripple the Iranian economy by bombing their oil infrastructure. Light their oil fields up like a birthday cake. Pros: No oil. No money. No money to finance Shia insurgents in Iraq. If we get lucky, the Iranian govt may fall. No money to finance their nuclear program. No money to finance Hezbollah in Lebanon... Cons: Price of gas goes up a $1 per gallon. We may need to bomb their fields again assuming they can attract foreign investment to replace their destroyed oil drilling equipment... Iran has a history of screwing foreign investors to if we do bomb Iran's oil industry, the the Russians may be the only takers to invest in new oil equipment. After 6 months we then we bomb their newly repair oil infrastructure. Russians take a big financial loss and walk back to Moscow with empty pockets. Iran gets on their knees and begs USA to stop promising they will be good. The Shia insurgents lose their sugar daddy and so the USA can concentrate on the Sunni insurgents... |
Re: Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
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[ QUOTE ] i dunno, do we invade russia or china every time they sell weapons to countries we are trying to liberate? [/ QUOTE ] Depends on how much the weapon system threatens us. We were ready to go to war with them over a few missles in Cuba. Stu [/ QUOTE ] Then ask your question again when the Middle East packs up and moves to the Caribbean. |
Re: What to do? Easy....
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Cripple the Iranian economy by bombing their oil infrastructure. Light their oil fields up like a birthday cake. [/ QUOTE ] AWESOME idea. [ QUOTE ] Iran has a history of screwing foreign investors to if we do bomb Iran's oil industry, the the Russians may be the only takers to invest in new oil equipment. After 6 months we then we bomb their newly repair oil infrastructure. Russians take a big financial loss and walk back to Moscow with empty pockets. Iran gets on their knees and begs USA to stop promising they will be good. [/ QUOTE ] yep, both the Iranians and the Russians will totally take this lying down. It won't have any averse affects on regional stability or our ability to get energy out of the M.E. Did you by any chance also draft the plan where the Iraqis welcome us with open arms? |
Re: Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
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I'm all for tracking them down within Iraq. But the answer is "no" for launching missles at their infrastructure. [/ QUOTE ] Why not? Its what put them back in line in the late 80's when in one day we destroyed half their Navy. Stu |
Re: What to do? Easy....
Cons:
Price of gas goes up a $2 per gallon. We will need to bomb their fields again as soon as they replace their destroyed oil drilling equipment... 1/3 of the rest of the world's economies (like Japan) that depends on Iran Oil collaspe. Price of Gas goes up another $1 as these countries scramble for oil that US normally purchases. Ripple effect of collasping economies causing US to fall into huge depression. Price of Gas goes up another $1, Exxon/Mobil/Shell report huge profits just as massive layoffs here in US start. |
Re: What to do? Easy....
Don't we sell Apache choppers and cluster bombs to Israel? If so, what should Hamas and Hezbollah be allowed to do to the US?
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Re: What to do? Easy....
First let me compliment you for making an intelligent post as oppose to just saying I'm wrong, calling me a name, and then running off into cyberspace. You have made a post with some substance....
[ QUOTE ] yep, both the Iranians and the Russians will totally take this lying down. It won't have any averse affects on regional stability or our ability to get energy out of the M.E. [/ QUOTE ] I did not advocate attacking the Russians so I don't know why you mentioned them. As for the Iranians they are a third rate power and the USA is a supper power. Once we bomb the Iranian oil fields and their economy is crippled...what can they do? Attack us militarily? Don't make me laugh..... [ QUOTE ] It won't have any averse affects on regional stability or our ability to get energy out of the M.E. [/ QUOTE ] Iran could try to attack oil tankers in the Persian Gulf. They tried this during the Iran-Iraq War because countries like Kuwait and Saudi-Arabia were giving money to Iraq. Luckily we had a real man as president (Ronald Reagan) and the USA sank half the Iranian navy in one day. Iran backed down.... Funny how gunboat diplomacy when properly applied workds very well... http://www.specialoperations.com/Ope...on_Profile.htm Once the bombs start flying, Iran will crumple like a cheap suit like they did when Reagan was president. The Sunnis of the muslim world are alarmed at Iran's power. Kuwait, Saudia-Arabia, and others would be happy to see Iran get smacked down by the USA.... [ QUOTE ] Did you by any chance also draft the plan where the Iraqis welcome us with open arms? [/ QUOTE ] I was for the war in Iraq but I have been dismayed by incompetance of occupation. But that is a completely different subject.... |
Re: What to do? Easy....
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Price of gas goes up a $2 per gallon. We will need to bomb their fields again as soon as they replace their destroyed oil drilling equipment... [/ QUOTE ] PERHAPS in the short term prices may go up $2 but it won't stay their long. Economics is economics. If gas goes up to $4 a gallon, then coal-to-gas plants become economically viable (and other sources of oil). Capitalism works... [ QUOTE ] 1/3 of the rest of the world's economies (like Japan) that depends on Iran Oil collaspe. [/ QUOTE ] Collapse??? You are being a Drama Queen. People will start conserving more and the environmentalist will love it. [ QUOTE ] Ripple effect of collasping economies causing US to fall into huge depression. [/ QUOTE ] Iran economy will fall into a HUGE depression. The US economy may hit a speed bump but we will do fine. Remember there are a lot of other sources of oil (coal, oil shale, tar sands). These alternatives are more expensive but we will always have oil unless someone invents a new fuel source that makes oil obsolete... South Africa's Sasol oil plants do just fine... The USA could drill in Alaska and the Gulf of Mexico but the environmentalist have a strangle-hold on American politics (so Cuba and Mexico a re drilling in the Gulf instead of the USA. These countries are HUGE poluters...it is ironic that the environmentalists will be responsible for more polution due to their lobbying rather than less.... [ QUOTE ] Price of Gas goes up another $1, Exxon/Mobil/Shell report huge profits just as massive layoffs here in US start. [/ QUOTE ] If I recall correctly, 70% of the worlds oil is on the Persian Gulf. Then we have oil from Venezuela, Nigeria, etc... Exxon does not control these sources of oil, yet people like yourself spread the urban myth that Exxon controls the oil market. OPEC countries the oil market. Not Exxon. Exxon's markup is roughly 10%. If they make a lot of money, then good for them. |
Re: What to do? Easy....
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Russian made missles sold to Iran. Iran gives the missles to the insurgents. What to do? Cripple the Iranian economy by bombing their oil infrastructure. Light their oil fields up like a birthday cake. Pros: No oil. No money. No money to finance Shia insurgents in Iraq. If we get lucky, the Iranian govt may fall. No money to finance their nuclear program. No money to finance Hezbollah in Lebanon... Cons: Price of gas goes up a $1 per gallon. We may need to bomb their fields again assuming they can attract foreign investment to replace their destroyed oil drilling equipment... [/ QUOTE ] I like how you don't include the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians as a con. |
Re: What to do? Easy....
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Don't we sell Apache choppers and cluster bombs to Israel? [/ QUOTE ] Yes [ QUOTE ] If so, what should Hamas and Hezbollah be allowed to do to the US? [/ QUOTE ] What are they going to do? Commit terrorism? Counterfeit US currency (Hezbollah/Iran)? Oh wait....they are already doing this. Perhaps we should sell money weapons to israel...not less. Selling/giving weapons in itself is not a casus belli for war. Countries have the right to defend themselves and they should have the right to buy weapons. But Iran is not just giving weapons. They sponsor terrorism and are involved in massive counterfeiting of US currency. Their agents have killed Americans. They are trying to establish a religious islamo-fascist theocracy in Iraq. Iran is an enemy of the USA. So they need to learn their are consequences to their actions in trying to kill Americans..... Better to stop a Hitler in 1936 than too wait too long. Same applies to islamo-fascists. |
Re: What to do? Easy....
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I like how you don't include the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians as a con. [/ QUOTE ] If we bomb their oil fields at night then it will minimize casulties... But I doubt there will be thousands of casulties. Perhaps hundreds. We could give them warning to evacuate before an attack. If they choose to stay, then that is there problem...not ours. This may cause a few American pilots to get killed due to Iran being able to prepare better aerial defenses. If the choice is dead Iranians or dead US military....then I choose dead Iranians. Besides, the use their oil to kill people via terrorism and perhaps eventually nuclear terrorism. Perhaps thousands and MILLIONS of people will live because we bomb their oil industry. If Hitler was stopped in 1936, then millions would have been saved... |
Re: What to do? Easy....
If the entity of Iran is doing those terrible, terrible things, then get back at the entity itself. The people who would suffer from an American attack on Iran's infrastructure are largely no more culpable for Iran's actions in Iraq than you or I are for American actions in Iraq.
To answer otherwise, unless you can convince me otherwise, would require you also to believe that an Iraqi "insurgent" could come to the United States and blow up our infrastructure and be justified in doing so. |
Re: What to do? Easy....
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The people who would suffer from an American attack on Iran's infrastructure are largely no more culpable for Iran's actions in Iraq than you or I are for American actions in Iraq. [/ QUOTE ] It is impossible stop Iran's evil designs without bringing some hardships to the Iranian people. Lots of Germans had to suffer allied bombings so that Hitler could be stopped. Besides the average Iranian does not benefit from their countries oil wealth. The oil money largely goes for terrorism, corruption, and Swiss bank accounts for Iran's ruling theocracy..... [ QUOTE ] To answer otherwise, unless you can convince me otherwise, would require you also to believe that an Iraqi "insurgent" could come to the United States and blow up our infrastructure and be justified in doing so. [/ QUOTE ] They do have that right as long as they don't violate the geneva convention regarding non-uniform wearing combatents. And we have the right to kill that insurgent when they come to the USA to try to attack our infrastructure. Duing WW2 we captured Nazi agents trying to damage our economy and promptly hanged them. Let them try if they want to... |
Re: What to do? Easy....
Hi Felix,
I think our response has to be a lot more measured. However we should take this opportunity to attack and destroy Iran's defenses. Take out radar installations and SAM sites. Lay the ground work for whats coming ahead. If you attack and destroy their oil producing capabilities you give them an excuse to, at the very least, deversify there energy producing capabilities. Stu |
Re: What to do? Easy....
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If they choose to stay, then that is there problem...not ours. [/ QUOTE ] Is this the Simpson's theory of morality? Bart: I'm going to go like this...(rotates arms)... and if you get hit, it's your own fault. Lisa: Fine, I'm gonna start kicking air like this (Starts kicking the air)... and if any part of you should fill that air, it's your own fault. |
Re: Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
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2 explanations I can think of. 1. Running bad 2. The insurgants got a hold of some surface to air missiles. I recall hearing a report that the insurgants made a video of one of one of the downings. On the video, there was a sound of a missle being launched. [/ QUOTE ] 3. democrats |
Re: Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
The US is trying to use back door to sell arms to Iran. Democrats opposed and want investigation. I am sure that is another nice little earner for Cheney, Bush et al... They don't give s damn, they are in it to make money, and when the reps get booted out of the presidency, maybe, just maybe, sanity will prevail.
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Re: Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
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reps get booted out of the presidency, maybe, just maybe, sanity will prevail. [/ QUOTE ] http://www.thelin.net/laurent/cinema...1853/32286.jpg You're fooling yourself! We're living in a dictatorship! A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working class... |
Re: What to do? Easy....
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[ QUOTE ] If they choose to stay, then that is there problem...not ours. [/ QUOTE ] Is this the Simpson's theory of morality? Bart: I'm going to go like this...(rotates arms)... and if you get hit, it's your own fault. Lisa: Fine, I'm gonna start kicking air like this (Starts kicking the air)... and if any part of you should fill that air, it's your own fault. [/ QUOTE ] This is more accurate. Lisa: Bart is that a dollar on the ceiling? Bart: <looks up> Uggg! <Lisa just kicks him in the balls> Bart: I'm going to go like this...(rotates arms)... and if you get hit, it's your own fault. |
Re: What to do? Easy....
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If they choose to stay, then that is there problem...not ours. [/ QUOTE ] Is this the Simpson's theory of morality? Bart: I'm going to go like this...(rotates arms)... and if you get hit, it's your own fault. Lisa: Fine, I'm gonna start kicking air like this (Starts kicking the air)... and if any part of you should fill that air, it's your own fault. [/ QUOTE ] This is more accurate. Lisa: Bart is that a dollar on the ceiling? Bart: <looks up> Uggg! <Lisa just kicks him in the balls> Bart: I'm going to go like this...(rotates arms)... and if you get hit, it's your own fault. [/ QUOTE ] Have we been attacked by those who would be working in the oil fields of Iran during this bombing you envision? |
Re: Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq?
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[ QUOTE ] It is all Bush's fault. [/ QUOTE ] In hindsight we should tried to democratize Iraq during the first gulf war. Stu [/ QUOTE ] It's not working well now, and I can't believe that it would have worked very well back then had it been tried. They don't WANT our type of society or government. They want their own side (Shi'ite or Sunni) to WIN. The prime fallacy of the Neo-Cons is the dogma that people everywhere around the world are craving democracy and a legal system that protects what WE in the West happen to think of as "rights". Nothing could be further from the truth. |
Grease is the word
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Why are we losing all these choppers in Iraq? Link to story [/ QUOTE ]I can't help feeling that your story might be somehow connected to this kind of story. |
De Villepin
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I like how you don't include the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians as a con. [/ QUOTE ]Here's the Frenchies' take on the situation. For every self-respecting advocate of free enterprise and the incentine motive, it makes perfect sense : [ QUOTE ] French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin told London's Financial Times that the U.S. should pull its troops out of Iraq within a year and called the proposal to send more troops to the war-ravaged nation "absurd." He further called foreign troops the "founding stone of the crisis," according to the newspaper. <font color="white"> . </font> "If you do not say that in one year there will be no more American or British troops in Iraq, nothing will happen in Iraq except more deaths and crises. Why? Because no one is taking responsibility and even some people are fueling the crisis," de Villepin told the Financial Times. link [/ QUOTE ] Mickey Brausch |
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