Is it OK to say what you have?
 

The other day I was playing in an annual home game tournament where you need to get as many points as you can in the first two games in order to make it to the final 6 person table. Early on in the second game, when no one is guaranteed a spot yet, the following hand came up:

About 6 people see the flop:
6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

UTG bets, UTG+1 raises, 2 folds, MP calls, and CO goes all in. After the action gets back to the raiser, CO, who is the defending champion, and who will be knocked out of contention if he gets called an loses, says "Everyone fold, please, I have the best hand and I'll show. I don't want to get knocked out. Fold your flush draws" Most of us know him and believe him so everyone folds, including K and s [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and a top two pair hand, face up. CO then turns over 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for the best hand, and gladly rakes in the pot.

I would really like to know for future reference how this type of thing is looked at ethics wise. Please choose one. Any comments would be helpful. Thanks.

Re: Is it OK to say what you have?
 

Who cares...He didnt say I have 57o and show it while people are in the hand. He is only playing with your heads and he obv. won.

Re: Is it OK to say what you have?
 

fine. if he said I have 57...that would be different. this however, is fine.

Re: Is it OK to say what you have?
 

Anyone realize it's not even the nuts?

Re: Is it OK to say what you have?
 

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Anyone realize it's not even the nuts?

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Duh...

Re: Is it OK to say what you have?
 

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fine. if he said I have 57...that would be different. this however, is fine.

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Why would it be different ethically speaking?

Re: Is it OK to say what you have?
 

imho...only because he does not know if he has the best hand for sure...he does however know that he has 57.

A slight distinction, but an important one in my opinion.

Re: Is it OK to say what you have?
 

Jamie Gold plays in your homegame?

Re: Is it OK to say what you have?
 

I say it's unethical because it is a tourney. In a ring game it would be fine. In a tourney different rules apply because each hand affects everyone else in the tourney, even if they are not at your table.

BTW, the reason this example is unethical is not because he spoke about his hand (which is perfectly fine) but rather that the rest of the table colluded with him so he wouldn't get knocked out if they hit.

Re: Is it OK to say what you have?
 

I personally think it is ok to say "everyone get out of my way" and take advantage of your table image. If you start giving clues as to what you are holding, then that is not cool and could impact other players unfairly.

Re: Is it OK to say what you have?
 

I agree that in a tournament you need to tone that kind of thing down a bit. You can use a bit of bravado or whatever else, but it's best to err on the side of caution.

In cash game, though, I think you can get away with a fair amount. For example, last night in a drunken bar game, I twice hit top pair in big blind specials and just started chuckling and betting with full confidence. My demeanor was telling them straight out that my random holding hit that garbage board, and that I was fine taking the limps, but if they wanted to rumble, let's go. The second time, I think I even verbalized it a bit.

See, I think that's fine. Won uncontested once, chopped another time.

Re: Is it OK to say what you have?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I say it's unethical because it is a tourney. In a ring game it would be fine. In a tourney different rules apply because each hand affects everyone else in the tourney, even if they are not at your table.

BTW, the reason this example is unethical is not because he spoke about his hand (which is perfectly fine) but rather that the rest of the table colluded with him so he wouldn't get knocked out if they hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is your answer. In a ring game, each hand is an independent trial and this kind of thing is fine. In a tourney however, not so much.

Saying "Please fold is fine" saying here's what I have (telling the truth or showing the cards) is getting a little boarderline, which is the way I voted.

Cody

Re: Is it OK to say what you have?
 

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... says "Everyone fold, please, i have the best hand and I'll show. I don't want to get knocked out. Fold

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Well first of all he did not have the best hand so he lied. Lying about your hand is actually allowed.

He's in a gray area since he didn't tell anyone what his hand was specifically, (ie. I have a 5 and 7 so you should fold. Or I flopped the straight) although saying he has the "best hand" does imply the straight. Of course a player with pocket Aces in that hand might have also thought he had the best hand. Or the guy who flopped a set might think he has the best hand. See the grayness. Saying "I have the best hand" leaves the door open for the opponents to interpret what that might mean. Does he mean he has the nuts or does he have top two and thinks it's just the best hand right now.

Personally, I have a hard time finding a problem with his action. I'm open to dissenting opinions though.

Re: Is it OK to say what you have?
 

I agree with most the people here. He didn't name his cards. That would be flat out wrong. He said he had the best hand, which, by the way, he probably did. When someone says they "have the best hand," I don't think it means they have the absolute stone cold nuts. I think they're saying they're confident that they have the best hand at the table. I don't see anything at all wrong with that, tournament or otherwise.

Re: Is it OK to say what you have?
 

The KQ spades should have stayed in. I would never fold just because someone told me to, especially the defending champion. I'd take the odds for a chance of knocking out the defending champ. Plus, he could have been lying...