I don\'t get it.
 

villain is 59.5/15.6/1.28

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.33 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.16 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (10.16 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16.16 BB

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

me neither [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

You're being destroyed by everything he 3-bets that turn with unless he's a complete idiot.

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're being destroyed by everything he 3-bets that turn with unless he's a complete idiot.

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Well, he's certainly not a very good player. Let's work from there.

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

I have seen people like this threebet with 22 and up, Axo where x &lt; T, Kqs, KT, QJ and so forth.

I would probably just call down the river bet after the turn 3bet, but I would not fold, but I would think you are behind but not often enough to fold.

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

I think I should have folded the turn to the three bet. My hand is pretty clear to him by now. If I"m going to call it I don't think I should've c/r'd the river. I think I spewed quite a bit of money in this hand.

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

I don't know why you'd wait until the turn, and raising the river is awful.

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

Waiting for the turn is fine here, but yes, I don't raise this river.

Better off capping the turn/calling a river bet.

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're being destroyed by everything he 3-bets that turn with unless he's a complete idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at his AF. A player like this may 3-bet here with a king. I am not sure about the river raise though.

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know why you'd wait until the turn, and raising the river is awful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Waiting till the turn is good here. I`d even wait until the river to raise against a player this aggressive if the turn wasn`t scary. Give him a chance to bet the river again with his t, pp or air.

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

Once he 3-bets preflop you need to call down. If he checks then bet. Raising here will only allow him to fold a worse hand or punish you with a better one.

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think I should have folded the turn to the three bet. My hand is pretty clear to him by now. If I"m going to call it I don't think I should've c/r'd the river. I think I spewed quite a bit of money in this hand.

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I don't think you can fold the turn. Even against a flush/straight you have a reasonable number of outs and you're splitting a decent % of the time here.

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

Given villain's numbers (none of which suggest he is over aggressive) I first thought you went way overboard with the hand, but given that it's a button raise and a big blind defense... I think you only went mildly overboard. Check-raise the turn, call down after that, that looks decent to me. Showing us that 3-bet on the river may have tainted the hand read though because that has "hero is crushed" written all over it.

cjx

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Better off capping the turn/calling a river bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

You can't fold the turn b/c he is 3 betting any ace here, and you have outs to boat if he has the flush. The river raise is bad though.

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

Your river raise is ill.

He 3-bet you PF. Sure he's loose, but there's a good chance he's got a better Ace than you - a kicker either equal or higher than a T.

When to raise might be a question to think about too. Why not raise the flop?

Regardless of when you choose to raise, as soon as your raise is met with a 3-bet, it's call down time.

Even assbag LAGs get strong hands now and then.

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

[ QUOTE ]
you have outs to boat if he has the flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

Those at mostly his outs IMO.

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Given villain's numbers (none of which suggest he is over aggressive)
cjx

[/ QUOTE ]

59/.../1.28 is very aggressive.

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you have outs to boat if he has the flush.

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Those at mostly his outs IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

que?

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

[ QUOTE ]
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I don't know why you'd wait until the turn, and raising the river is awful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Waiting till the turn is good here. I`d even wait until the river to raise against a player this aggressive if the turn wasn`t scary. Give him a chance to bet the river again with his t, pp or air.

[/ QUOTE ]

Granted, this player isn't particularly intelligent, but against almost any opponent waiting until the turn here is awful. KK, QQ, JJ, TT whatever will call down if you raise the flop. Waiting until the turn keeps your hand transparent, and waiting until the river is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Waiting until the turn induces folds from hands that would otherwise call down.

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

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I don't know why you'd wait until the turn, and raising the river is awful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Waiting till the turn is good here. I`d even wait until the river to raise against a player this aggressive if the turn wasn`t scary. Give him a chance to bet the river again with his t, pp or air.

[/ QUOTE ]

Granted, this player isn't particularly intelligent, but against almost any opponent waiting until the turn here is awful. KK, QQ, JJ, TT whatever will call down if you raise the flop. They'd likely fold the turn. Waiting until the turn keeps your hand transparent, and waiting until the river is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

[/ QUOTE ]

waiting till the river is the best way to play this hand against an aggressive and retarded villain. A flop raise is bad as it will prevent this super-aggro villain from bluffing.

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

[ QUOTE ]
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I don't know why you'd wait until the turn, and raising the river is awful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Waiting till the turn is good here. I`d even wait until the river to raise against a player this aggressive if the turn wasn`t scary. Give him a chance to bet the river again with his t, pp or air.

[/ QUOTE ]

Granted, this player isn't particularly intelligent, but against almost any opponent waiting until the turn here is awful. KK, QQ, JJ, TT whatever will call down if you raise the flop. They'd likely fold the turn. Waiting until the turn keeps your hand transparent, and waiting until the river is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

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waiting till the river is the best way to play this hand against an aggressive and retarded villain. A flop raise is bad as it will prevent this super-aggro villain from bluffing.

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Waiting until the river is [censored] awful. If he's on a flush draw there is no guarantee he goes three streets. If he's on KK-TT he may not bet the last street. If you want to wait until a big street to raise, the turn is far better. Even if you're operating under the delusional thought that he's a maniac, they often know how to stop betting busted draws, and they never call a raise on the river. And waiting until the turn puts us into exactly the situation we're stuck in. We have a weak trips hand with a flush draw out. Stop thinking that this guy is somehow 70/30/3.

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

[ QUOTE ]
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I don't know why you'd wait until the turn, and raising the river is awful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Waiting till the turn is good here. I`d even wait until the river to raise against a player this aggressive if the turn wasn`t scary. Give him a chance to bet the river again with his t, pp or air.

[/ QUOTE ]

Granted, this player isn't particularly intelligent, but against almost any opponent waiting until the turn here is awful. KK, QQ, JJ, TT whatever will call down if you raise the flop. They'd likely fold the turn. Waiting until the turn keeps your hand transparent, and waiting until the river is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

[/ QUOTE ]

waiting till the river is the best way to play this hand against an aggressive and retarded villain. A flop raise is bad as it will prevent this super-aggro villain from bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Waiting until the river is [censored] awful. If he's on a flush draw there is no guarantee he goes three streets. If he's on KK-TT he may not bet the last street. If you want to wait until a big street to raise, the turn is far better. Even if you're operating under the delusional thought that he's a maniac, they often know how to stop betting busted draws, and they never call a raise on the river. And waiting until the turn puts us into exactly the situation we're stuck in. We have a weak trips hand with a flush draw out. Stop thinking that this guy is somehow 70/30/3.

[/ QUOTE ]


I made the assumption in my original post that waiting until the river is good if the turn wasn`t scary.

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

Call down from his turn 3-bet, he's aggressive, but not stupid.

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Once he 3-bets preflop you need to call down. If he checks then bet. Raising here will only allow him to fold a worse hand or punish you with a better one.

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Call down when he 3-bets 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] preflop?


I agree with everyone who says just call down after the turn. I raise the blinds a crap-ton so they're going to get frustrated from time to time and try to make moves on me, so playing the turn strong is a must IMO. I think that Arturius' line is probably the best one in this situation. His PFA is large and he will make mistakes a good part of the time.

Re: I don\'t get it.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Once he 3-bets preflop you need to call down. If he checks then bet. Raising here will only allow him to fold a worse hand or punish you with a better one.

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this situation is intresting because against a sane player Id probably call down, sometimes raising if a second Ace hit, but mostly letting them bluff it off, as if a sane player plays back at me its usually not so hot.

Against this guy he will probably be willing to play back with lesser holdings or call down weak hands. If I was raising it would probably be on the turn with the second Ace. If this guy is 3betting me on the turn, I dont like capping at all. Id rather call the 3bet call the river.