So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

Everyone couldn't believe that Party voluntarily banned all US players from their site when the new law was announced back in October.

Why would they do that? Why give up so much revenue months before they had to? Could it be because they saw the writing on the wall where no one else did?

How did they get to be #1 in the 1st place? Advertising, they sank the most money into it and reaped the benifits. No one had even come close to taking the #1 spot away from Party before the new law was passed

So is it possible they decided to abanded the US market and be the 1st to concentrate heavily in the Non US markets and again reap the benifits? Stick with the formula that made them #1 in the 1st place?

Did they decide to take a short term loss to gain in the long run?

Lets face it, Online poker for Americans is pretty much done with. All the pro's and semi-pro's will want to keep playing and have every reason to want to but what will they do without the influx of new fish?

Soon it will be a lake full of Sharks all eating each other up to take the occasional break when the odd lone fish swims by, tear the lone fish shreds and then continue feeding on each other.

Honestly, how many casual or recreational players will want to deposit online again after they have gotten burned by Neteller holding their money for 6 months? They will see it no other way, even when they get their money back they will think they were screwed, plain and simple.

And the odd fish that wasn't burnt by Neteller who deposited by some other means will hear stories about what Neteller did to their friend, or brother or Uncle and that will more then likely frighten them away also.

Even when the sites find a new funding method all the goodwill and trust that was there is gone from the fish who were burnt by Neteller. They will not want to deposit again.

Party has had a huge head start, heavily advertising in the non US countries while most other sites left it alone figuring that even when Neteller bailed there would be a half dozen or so ther compnaies ready to replace it.

What they did not count on was the US getting as aggressive as they did in trying to cripple the online gambling industry such as the recent Neteller arrests.

They did not count on Neteller freezing funds for 6 months destoying any faith or goodwill from the fish which accounts for the majority of the funds being used for online gambling.

I say in a couple of months Party will be #1 again by a huge margin, not that I'm happy about it as I'd rather play on Stars

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

I was thinking just the same thing right now. I think you've hit it 100%.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

There's a 0% chance you are correct.

Party has a terrible reputation in Europe. And Mike Sexton is a nobody over here.

Pokerstars sponsor the most popular series of live tournaments in Europe, the EPT, and are renowned for their excellent customer service.

Stars will stay on top, although Ladbrokes will probably do very well too.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

So much wrong with this post.

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone couldn't believe that Party voluntarily banned all US players from their site when the new law was announced back in October.

Why would they do that? Why give up so much revenue months before they had to? Could it be because they saw the writing on the wall where no one else did?

[/ QUOTE ]

....getting out Oct 13th or Jan20th, there is no difference except that they lose a ton of money they could have had.

[ QUOTE ]
So is it possible they decided to abanded the US market and be the 1st to concentrate heavily in the Non US markets and again reap the benifits? Stick with the formula that made them #1 in the 1st place?

[/ QUOTE ]

What was stopping them from continuing to allow Americans to play, dropping advertising in the US, and pumping their greater profits and other advertising budget into other markets?

[ QUOTE ]

Did they decide to take a short term loss to gain in the long run?

[/ QUOTE ]

So you are saying they took a ~50% hit to their revenue in order to gain in the long run? Say they made 1 billion over the last 3 months without Americans. With Americans they stood to make 1.7 billion. They could have taken that 700 million and used it in addition to the marketing funds they are currently allocating to other markets in order to get even more advertising.

[ QUOTE ]

Honestly, how many casual or recreational players will want to deposit online again after they have gotten burned by Neteller holding their money for 6 months?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would a recreational player have money just sitting in Neteller? They take money and load it onto poker sites. They don't leave it sitting around in Neteller.

Edit: This wasn't some brilliant plan of Party's. They had to pull out because they are a publicly traded company on the London stock exchange, or their controlling members decided it was less risky. It most certainly wasn't some masterful plan to dominate the world market minus the US

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

[ QUOTE ]
There's a 0% chance you are correct.

Party has a terrible reputation in Europe. And Mike Sexton is a nobody over here.

Pokerstars sponsor the most popular series of live tournaments in Europe, the EPT, and are renowned for their excellent customer service.

Stars will stay on top, although Ladbrokes will probably do very well too.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about the asian countries? Hasn't Party announced they are going after them also? I think Party will be #1 again very soon and I think the OP just said what all of us U.S. players already know..... just don't want to admit.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

Does Party have a terrible rep here? Everybody I know who plays there seriously is very happy with Party. They offer quick support (say whatever you want about their support, but they fix things.. fast!), great amount of players, they're steadily growing opposed to many other sites, nice client, good bonuses... They have a LOT going for them, and why somebody would dislike Party is beyond me.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

[ QUOTE ]
There's a 0% chance you are correct.

Party has a terrible reputation in Europe. And Mike Sexton is a nobody over here.

Pokerstars sponsor the most popular series of live tournaments in Europe, the EPT, and are renowned for their excellent customer service.

Stars will stay on top, although Ladbrokes will probably do very well too.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just WAY off. Look at the last couple of weeks, and Party is almost even with Stars again, even without the US market. Figure 60-70% of Stars customers are US based, like it was with Party. Simple math shows that Party has at least twice as many non-US players as Stars, and probably more than that. Why? Quite simple. Party is/was and for the time being will be the place fish go to swim, and that to me is way more important than customer service and the EPT, I'm sad to say. Even now, SNGs are much easier on Party than they are on Stars...

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

Party is very smart. They did their IPO at the exact perfect moment in time to extract the most from the public.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

The only part that is off is that Stars will continue to grow along with Party.

The part about online poker for american players is true.
The pool of fish will continue to lessen esp on sites that are heavily invested in the US.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

I'm not a US player so this wasn't a sky was falling post, I can always go to the Non US sites

[ QUOTE ]
Party has a terrible reputation in Europe

[/ QUOTE ]

Care to explain that?

[ QUOTE ]
Pokerstars sponsor the most popular series of live tournaments in Europe,

[/ QUOTE ]

Your Point? The fact thet they sponser the EPT doesnt mean much

[ QUOTE ]
and are renowned for their excellent customer service.



[/ QUOTE ]

Stars alwyas had better customer service then Party, but Party was always #1 until forces beyond their contol caused them to loose that spot. #1 Customer service doesn't mean you are the #1 player

[ QUOTE ]
....getting out Oct 13th or Jan20th, there is no difference except that they lose a ton of money they could have had.



[/ QUOTE ]

With the stance the US is taking on online gambling it makes a huge diffeerence. Jail is a huge motivator for most, just look at neteller

[ QUOTE ]
What was stopping them from continuing to allow Americans to play, dropping advertising in the US, and pumping their greater profits and other advertising budget into other markets?

[/ QUOTE ]

Jail, Freedom to travel in the US without risk of Jail time.

[ QUOTE ]
So you are saying they took a ~50% hit to their revenue in order to gain in the long run?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, succesfull business do this all the tirm to ensure thier long term prosperity. Who cares what you can make in the short term if you lose overall in the long run.

[ QUOTE ]
Why would a recreational player have money just sitting in Neteller? They take money and load it onto poker sites. They don't leave it sitting around in Neteller

[/ QUOTE ]

Fish depsoit via neteller. Fish runs a $100 deposit into $1k. Fish withdrawls via neteller because he has to because of the policies of the poker sites and now his $1k is stuck in neteller for 6 months.

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: This wasn't some brilliant plan of Party's. They had to pull out because they are a publicly traded company on the London stock exchange, or their controlling members decided it was less risky. It most certainly wasn't some masterful plan to dominate the world market minus the US


[/ QUOTE ]

Never said it was a masterfull plan, just a sound one. They did not have to pull out right away they could have waited like Neteller and then been arrested like some execs at neteller. Neteller is on the stock exchage also. Whats your point?

Party cut their losses in the US and then moved on to where they can make money, without any risk. PArty became #1 by heavily advertising and thats what they are doing again in Non US markets.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

The fundamental flaw in your argument is the false dichotomy you offer: Party continues to serve American customers or focuses on other markets.

Why is it necessary to drop American customers in order to focus on other markets? It isn't. In fact, the huge amount of dollars Americans produce could fund all the advertising and man power needed for those other markets.

Party wasn't smart. They clearly reacted too quickly. Leaving the American market so quickly offered them zero benefit and I challenge you to show any benefit.

It may be case that on line poker in America will soon be at risk, but the smart companies are waiting until that outcome is clear before they act.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

[ QUOTE ]
There's a 0% chance you are correct.

Party has a terrible reputation in Europe. And Mike Sexton is a nobody over here.

Pokerstars sponsor the most popular series of live tournaments in Europe, the EPT, and are renowned for their excellent customer service.

Stars will stay on top, although Ladbrokes will probably do very well too.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is hilarious. As soon as Stars pulls out of the US, they will sink to the bottom. Party is maintaining 2/3 of Stars numbers on non US players alone...think about that for a second. And that's WITH all the regular Euros chasing the Americans at Stars.

Stars have shown themselves to be incompetent when it comes to marketing. The lack of a percentage based affiliate program is mind boggling. Over the past 4 years online poker has been fairly stable (no big shakeups) and they've managed to leech a lot of regular players from other sites by focusing on service and PR on forums like this one. But they don't stand a chance competing in the new markets vs Party's crack marketing team and large budget.

--------

OP - you are wrong about this being a "strategic" decision. The UIGEA made it risky for Party to continue servicing US players. As directors of a public company they made the only decision they could make IMO.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Lets face it, Online poker for Americans is pretty much done with. All the pro's and semi-pro's will want to keep playing and have every reason to want to but what will they do without the influx of new fish?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're a fool if you think poker is done in the United States. You think the world is going to let hundreds of thousands, if not a million + people sit around twidling their thumbs and just playing house games with friends rather than online? Think again! What "intelligent" corporation wouldn't want to capitalize on this multi-billion dollar American poker player market. They'll find a way, it just takes time. Let all this BS and dust settle down a bit, and you'll see. Honestly I think this was a pretty decent post with a lot of thought, but very wrong in this one respect.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The fundamental flaw in your argument is the false dichotomy you offer: Party continues to serve American customers or focuses on other markets.

Why is it necessary to drop American customers in order to focus on other markets? It isn't. In fact, the huge amount of dollars Americans produce could fund all the advertising and man power needed for those other markets.

Party wasn't smart. They clearly reacted too quickly. Leaving the American market so quickly offered them zero benefit and I challenge you to show any benefit.

It may be case that on line poker in America will soon be at risk, but the smart companies are waiting until that outcome is clear before they act.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a benefit; Party is a fishpond right now, very much unlike Stars & FTP. What happened 3 months ago is that a lot of American fish stopped playing (probably just because they had heard that poker was now "illegal"). Sites like party thought that if they weren't gonna have american fish, they might as well have no americans at all and save the quality of their games for the european and emerging markets. If they knew they'd lose the U.S. after a few months regardless of their actions, the path they took was a smart one.


Edit: now watch the flux of non-US players from Stars to Party. It's gonna be fast and furious.

Edit 2: Now is a good time to buy party stocks.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

Even though I can't play on Party, I will be happy to see them regain the #1 spot within the next few months. PokerStars became #1 by default, not cause they earned it. I miss PartyPoker and I wish I could play there. Best site, best affiliate program, and best action. Their savvy marketing team is unmatched and they deserve what is coming to them.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

[ QUOTE ]
OP - you are wrong about this being a "strategic" decision

[/ QUOTE ]

I freely admit that this being a strategic decsion could be completely off base. It was just a thought that was mulling around in my head.

It is probbaly the only thing that I am wrong about.

I believe I am 100% correct when I say that Party will be #1 again in a fairly short period of time and they will remain #1 because they know how to advertise to pull the players in. No other site has been able to market themselves as well as Party has

I believe I am 100% correct when I say online poker for Americans is prety much done. Yes there will always be places to play poker for Americans Howver the days of 8-12 tabling with any sort of decent winrate by all except for the very few excellent players are over because pretty soon all that will be left is a lot of sharks with very few fish to feed upon

Party currently holds the #2 spot without a single US player.


Give them a few more months of heavy advertising in the Non US markets and they will be #1 again.
Stars is ahead and not by much.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The fundamental flaw in your argument is the false dichotomy you offer: Party continues to serve American customers or focuses on other markets.

Why is it necessary to drop American customers in order to focus on other markets? It isn't. In fact, the huge amount of dollars Americans produce could fund all the advertising and man power needed for those other markets.

Party wasn't smart. They clearly reacted too quickly. Leaving the American market so quickly offered them zero benefit and I challenge you to show any benefit.

It may be case that on line poker in America will soon be at risk, but the smart companies are waiting until that outcome is clear before they act.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a benefit; Party is a fishpond right now, very much unlike Stars & FTP. What happened 3 months ago is that a lot of American fish stopped playing (probably just because they had heard that poker was now "illegal"). Sites like party thought that if they weren't gonna have american fish, they might as well have no americans at all and save the quality of their games for the european and emerging markets. If they knew they'd lose the U.S. after a few months regardless of their actions, the path they took was a smart one.


Edit: now watch the flux of non-US players from Stars to Party. It's gonna be fast and furious.

Edit 2: Now is a good time to buy party stocks.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're leveling me right?

Just on the small chance that you're not, I have to ask how it's possible that a site so poorly run could be thinking at this level? The list of valid complaints is long and many of them would have been easy to fix, but Party just didn't care.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

As a Canadian all I can say is Party is the new Party and probaly better than the pre Oct Party.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

Party pulled out of the US market to stop the dept of justice mugging them - which likely would have happened much sooner than the neteller BS went down.

Stop whining, its your [censored] up country that banned online poker.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Party pulled out of the US market to stop the dept of justice mugging them - which likely would have happened much sooner than the neteller BS went down.

Stop whining, its your [censored] up country that banned online poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

They didn't ban online poker, and no one ever will. And it's not like we agree with all the BS that's going on.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

Look around you dude, how can you say "They didnt ban online poker, and no one ever will".

They have repeatedly taken the position that online gambling is illegal under the wire act.

Meh, if you really wanted online poker to stay, everyone of you coulda done something about it when it was obvious that Frist and the DoJ was on the war path.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Look around you dude, how can you say "They didnt ban online poker, and no one ever will".

They have repeatedly taken the position that online gambling is illegal under the wire act.

Meh, if you really wanted online poker to stay, everyone of you coulda done something about it when it was obvious that Frist and the DoJ was on the war path.

[/ QUOTE ]

They're actually in the process of trying to rule poker as a game of skill, not gambling. That would be a huge win. I agree with you that online gambling is done for the U.S. most likely, but who cares? We are here for poker not gambling. You're crazy if you think they're "banning" online poker.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

For the record, i dont see how america will recognise poker as a game of skill if the UK sees it as a game of gambling - as shown in an extremely recent test case.

Take any random member of the public, you argue its a skill game, ill argue its a gambling game - i will win almost every time.

AND that was in the UK where we dont have strong religious undertones to everything.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

[ QUOTE ]
For the record, i dont see how america will recognise poker as a game of skill if the UK sees it as a game of gambling - as shown in an extremely recent test case.

[/ QUOTE ]

What recent test case would that be, or are you making it up?

[ QUOTE ]
Take any random member of the public, you argue its a skill game, ill argue its a gambling game - i will win almost every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who cares what the mindless public think, it's about legislation and who has enough swing in court.

[ QUOTE ]
AND that was in the UK where we dont have strong religious undertones to everything.

[/ QUOTE ]

That really doesn't have much to do with anything.

Listen, I'm not trying to start anything, I'm just arguing what most people are thinking in the U.S. Frankly I'm surprised no one has stepped up to back up my argument here.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

Wekwekwek:

The UK case was an article in the last week: its on gambling911.com (or something like that)

The legisalators are NOT going to do anything that 80% of their constituents are going to find "morally offensive". So it does matter what the avg joe blow thinks

If you think the religous folks dont matter in American politics you are a fool.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

The case was related to the Gutshot casino in London. It was mentioned in NVG under a title along the lines of "Its official, poker is not a skill game" - or something like that.

I guess its possible you have to convince one or more judges to get a ruling on it, but im 90% sure here in the UK it was seen in front of a jury.

Either way, experts were called from both sides - and be it judge, jury or executioner, no random person will be disuaded from the default concept that poker is gambling.

If there is a jury of 12, or a panel of 6 judges, and one was a baptist, another a mormon, a couple of jews and some born again christians, its a LOT harder to convince them that poker is a skill over luck game. Here in the uk you can take a similar random selection and the odds of having devoutly religious people is less.

Hey, i suppose im coming off as dickish a lot, but these really are just the facts, served with a side of opinion based commentry.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The fundamental flaw in your argument is the false dichotomy you offer: Party continues to serve American customers or focuses on other markets.

Why is it necessary to drop American customers in order to focus on other markets? It isn't. In fact, the huge amount of dollars Americans produce could fund all the advertising and man power needed for those other markets.

Party wasn't smart. They clearly reacted too quickly. Leaving the American market so quickly offered them zero benefit and I challenge you to show any benefit.

It may be case that on line poker in America will soon be at risk, but the smart companies are waiting until that outcome is clear before they act.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a benefit; Party is a fishpond right now, very much unlike Stars & FTP. What happened 3 months ago is that a lot of American fish stopped playing (probably just because they had heard that poker was now "illegal"). Sites like party thought that if they weren't gonna have american fish, they might as well have no americans at all and save the quality of their games for the european and emerging markets. If they knew they'd lose the U.S. after a few months regardless of their actions, the path they took was a smart one.


Edit: now watch the flux of non-US players from Stars to Party. It's gonna be fast and furious.

Edit 2: Now is a good time to buy party stocks.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're leveling me right?

Just on the small chance that you're not, I have to ask how it's possible that a site so poorly run could be thinking at this level? The list of valid complaints is long and many of them would have been easy to fix, but Party just didn't care.

[/ QUOTE ]

You may think party is a poorly run site, but it is far from poorly run business...they are the only ones who understand the market.

The games right now at party are incredibly soft I cant imagine any non American sticking it out with Full Tilt or Pokerstars when they are stacked with the top american players and no fish. Pokerstars / Full tilt have ruined there games, are rapidly losing players, and will have a tough time reversing it until they too drop the american market.

Party doesnt care about regulars, they target the casual players. Thats why theres no rakeback, thats why they have frequent small, easy to clear bonuses, no pros etc

fixing bugs and addressing valid complaints just doesnt make them money. fish do and fish don't care about the things you care about.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Meh, if you really wanted online poker to stay, everyone of you coulda done something about it when it was obvious that Frist and the DoJ was on the war path.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think many (if not most) of us did whatever we could. Unfortunately, most of what we could do was through the PPA...which obviously was not successful. Truth is we're mostly outnumbered....and that's why we got screwed.

What American poker players are doing now is a different story.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

Also,
I want to add my two cents about Party Pokers "horrible customer service".

I played on Party Poker for over 4 years pretty much on a daily basis and never, not one time, had any problem that was not solved with either one email or one phone call.

The only thing I didnt care for was trying to understand the rep on the phone. But, with a little perserverance, I was always able to get my message across to them and get the situation handled in a satisfactory way.

I reported over 100 "disconnects" to them over the years and they always responded to me in a quick time frame and explained to me what action they took.

Once, I needed to get money from a buddy (or to a buddy, I cant remember) when he was on Empire and I was on Party Poker (or vice versa). And since an inter account transfer was impossible, we sat at a table and literally "chip dumped" the money to each other. Of course the next day we found that both of our accounts had been frozen. My buddy, was scared to death, I told him we should just call them up and tell them the truth. We did, and they unfroze our accounts within minutes of our conversations with them.

So as far as I am concerned Party has been nothing but good to me over the years and I would play ther today if I were allowed.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Look around you dude, how can you say "They didnt ban online poker, and no one ever will".

They have repeatedly taken the position that online gambling is illegal under the wire act.

Meh, if you really wanted online poker to stay, everyone of you coulda done something about it when it was obvious that Frist and the DoJ was on the war path.

[/ QUOTE ]

The DOJ has taken the position that online poker violates the wire act, however the courts have stated that the wire act only applies to sports betting.

I don't know what we could have done to prevent Bill Frist from passing this. And for the DOJ, well, they don't think we actually have rights. AG Gonzalez has testified before congress that Americans do not have the right to Habeus Corpus.

Don't think just because party and pacific pulled out that the DOJ won't go after them. They have already subpoenaed banks for information. I would suspect this to do more with prosecuting them under tax evasion than anything else

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

Party was on the ball about one thing for sure: making sure their US customers were able to get their money the hell out of there.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

[ QUOTE ]
There's a 0% chance you are correct.

Party has a terrible reputation in Europe. And Mike Sexton is a nobody over here.

Pokerstars sponsor the most popular series of live tournaments in Europe, the EPT, and are renowned for their excellent customer service.

Stars will stay on top, although Ladbrokes will probably do very well too.

[/ QUOTE ]
I believe original poster put Fool in his name for reason, statements like this seem to explain it.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

Party might not have the best customer serivce and might not be the fastest at creating a better platform for their current players, but jesus christ are they good buisness people. Party will always be the biggest online poker site because they can see so much futher ahead then other sites.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

[ QUOTE ]
There's a 0% chance you are correct.

Party has a terrible reputation in Europe. And Mike Sexton is a nobody over here.

Pokerstars sponsor the most popular series of live tournaments in Europe, the EPT, and are renowned for their excellent customer service.

Stars will stay on top, although Ladbrokes will probably do very well too.

[/ QUOTE ]By the end of February I expect to see Party back on top, on the first day of their current reload they actually went back over Stars in real money player numbers. They have also been rising for the past 3 weeks, while simultaneously Stars have dropped significantly.

Mike Sexton is as unknown to the man in the street as any other pro, but the WPT TV shows undoubtedly mean they will be more likely to recognise him over anyone else.

Stars may sponsor the EPT, but Party are everywhere, how many people watch the EPT, and how many watch Match of the Day? You will note Party are now moving into football ground trackside advertising. Party have always been excellent in the marketing division, that's what really matters, otherwise Pacific/888, another excellent marketeer, would have died at birth, with their worst software, worst CS, worst bonus programme combo, and yet they were a popular room.

Why do you think Ladbrokes will do well?

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Party might not have the best customer serivce and might not be the fastest at creating a better platform for their current players, but jesus christ are they good buisness people. Party will always be the biggest online poker site because they can see so much futher ahead then other sites.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree! Although in my experience their customer service is pretty much #2, next to Stars. The drawback are the India reps who can be hard to talk to sometimes, but as someone else already pointed out, I have never had a problem which takes more than a few hours to resolve (even account locks, withdrawal rejections or whatever). These things can be a nightmare on many sites, but Party always manages to fix things asap.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Party might not have the best customer serivce and might not be the fastest at creating a better platform for their current players, but jesus christ are they good buisness people. Party will always be the biggest online poker site because they can see so much futher ahead then other sites.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree! Although in my experience their customer service is pretty much #2, next to Stars. The drawback are the India reps who can be hard to talk to sometimes, but as someone else already pointed out, I have never had a problem which takes more than a few hours to resolve (even account locks, withdrawal rejections or whatever). These things can be a nightmare on many sites, but Party always manages to fix things asap.

[/ QUOTE ]

Contrary to what you read on 2+2, 95% of our players feel the same way that you do. We arent perfect, we do make mistakes, but we are continually trying to improve that.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There's a 0% chance you are correct.

Party has a terrible reputation in Europe. And Mike Sexton is a nobody over here.

Pokerstars sponsor the most popular series of live tournaments in Europe, the EPT, and are renowned for their excellent customer service.

Stars will stay on top, although Ladbrokes will probably do very well too.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is hilarious. As soon as Stars pulls out of the US, they will sink to the bottom. Party is maintaining 2/3 of Stars numbers on non US players alone...think about that for a second. And that's WITH all the regular Euros chasing the Americans at Stars.

Stars have shown themselves to be incompetent when it comes to marketing. The lack of a percentage based affiliate program is mind boggling. Over the past 4 years online poker has been fairly stable (no big shakeups) and they've managed to leech a lot of regular players from other sites by focusing on service and PR on forums like this one. But they don't stand a chance competing in the new markets vs Party's crack marketing team and large budget.

--------

OP - you are wrong about this being a "strategic" decision. The UIGEA made it risky for Party to continue servicing US players. As directors of a public company they made the only decision they could make IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]Not a million miles out Phil, I tend to roughly agree with that

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

[ QUOTE ]
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Party might not have the best customer serivce and might not be the fastest at creating a better platform for their current players, but jesus christ are they good buisness people. Party will always be the biggest online poker site because they can see so much futher ahead then other sites.

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Agree! Although in my experience their customer service is pretty much #2, next to Stars. The drawback are the India reps who can be hard to talk to sometimes, but as someone else already pointed out, I have never had a problem which takes more than a few hours to resolve (even account locks, withdrawal rejections or whatever). These things can be a nightmare on many sites, but Party always manages to fix things asap.

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Contrary to what you read on 2+2, 95% of our players feel the same way that you do. We arent perfect, we do make mistakes, but we are continually trying to improve that.

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i have always been one of the biggest party bashers over the years, but i do believe there is a lot of truth in the OP. maybe party wasnt the idiots we were all making them out to be. lets face it, while all the other sites are getting tons of pressure right now, and while all the other sites are squirming to try to hold things together right now, everything is smooth sailing over at party.

if i were a party rep right now id post in big fat letters "I TOLD YOU SO" to everyone that was party bashing over the past 6 months.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

Online poker for Americans will never go away.

There are too many people who love it to leave it and move on completely. The casual player will continue to play and get money onto site via the numerous methods currently available and soon to come.

Poker has become America's favorite pastime. Some people will fall off but a majority of players including fish will continue to play. They see it on TV and the game is just too much fun to quit.

Land based casinos cannot compete with online sites in terms of game availability and ultra low stakes. The casual fish cannot afford to move offline. Compare an offline $1/$2 to online $0.05/$0.10.

Party will never again be #1. There's a reason why they focused on the US, it's where the real money is. Party will soon lose 2nd place to FTP for good and go farther down the list in the coming months.

They are good at spending money, but their marketing in general is very weak when compared to companies like FTP & Stars.

People will realize the level of CS offered is just horrible, the promotions are weak and in general they suck.

Those are my predictions.

Re: So who thinks Party was on the ball?
 

The problem with the original poster's thinking is that he seems to believe that cutting off US players would be prerequisite to shifting advertising funds to the European market.

That's obviously not the case, so no, they're not on the ball for that reason.