Mansion 100k: top pair weak kicker
 

This hand happened a few days ago, and Mansion doesn't write hh to the hd, but I think I've got relevant details right.

I've just been moved to the table, I think this is my 2nd hand. We're at the start of the 2nd hour and not much has happened for me.

Starting Stack 2500, most of the field is still around.

I have ~3000, most of the table has me covered, including villain.

Blinds 75/150

folds to me, I open for 400 in the co with A8o.

btn+sb fold, bb calls.

Flop A36 rainbow. (875)

bb bets 800. . .

I have 2600 back, pot is now 1700-

what do I do? wtf does a pot sized lead into my pfr mean here? set? draw? I'm lost-help!

Re: Mansion 100k: top pair weak kicker
 

its call or fold, As shoving turns your hand into a bluff that rarely gets a better hand to fold.

Re: Mansion 100k: top pair weak kicker
 

I'd probably call it down and hope for the best

Re: Mansion 100k: top pair weak kicker
 

That's horrible. I call but I don't feel great about it.

In terms of what the pot bet means, I dunno. I don't often checkraise but this a board and stack to checkraise a set if ever there was one. I'd lead draws here but I don't know which ones I've got there with agaisnt the table SS. This could well be air. It could be middle pair. I suppose it could be two pair.

Re: Mansion 100k: top pair weak kicker
 

If I had to put villian on a hand, I think A3 or A6 is most likely, hoping to taking it down here and being afraid you'll check behind. Also, he's hoping you have an ace and will be willing to push it in he's face.

That being said, other hands that have been mentioned are certainly possibilites.

Re: Mansion 100k: top pair weak kicker
 

I call and don't fold the turn. A lot of people will call pf and donk any flop.

Re: Mansion 100k: top pair weak kicker
 

These big donk bets on a flop like this are a bluff a huge % of the time. I'm not folding, and certainly not raising.

Re: Mansion 100k: top pair weak kicker
 

IMHO, I think the problem here is the PF raise--it wasn't enough to mean anything. A 1.5BB raise from late position? To me, this would look like a weak steal attempt. Even if I just have air, I'm getting better than 2-1 on my 250TC call.

Plus, you're new to the table--they don't have a read on you.

Absent any other read, I'd have you on Ax, or maybe a smallish pr. With any pr or a decent draw, I could understand a pot-sized bet to knock you off a smaller pair.

Re: Mansion 100k: top pair weak kicker
 

[ QUOTE ]
IMHO, I think the problem here is the PF raise--it wasn't enough to mean anything. A 1.5BB raise from late position? To me, this would look like a weak steal attempt. Even if I just have air, I'm getting better than 2-1 on my 250TC call.

Plus, you're new to the table--they don't have a read on you.

Absent any other read, I'd have you on Ax, or maybe a smallish pr. With any pr or a decent draw, I could understand a pot-sized bet to knock you off a smaller pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh, its a fairly standard raise. OPs stack was only 20xBB, it's not as though he's giving a ton of implied odds to call his PFR with any two.

i agree with everyone that this is either a call or a fold, but i'm not really sold on which. i do think that this sort of bet (PSB into PFR in a shallow-stacked tourney) tends to be a monster or air -- i just don't really know which one i should weight more heavily.

Re: Mansion 100k: top pair weak kicker
 

I don't think it's ever a monster on this board. It's a somewhat vulnerable hand or it's air.

Edit: somewhat vulnerable can nevertheless beat us fairly monstrously.

Re: Mansion 100k: top pair weak kicker
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it's ever a monster on this board. It's a somewhat vulnerable hand or it's air.

[/ QUOTE ]

there are no really vulnerable hands on this board

Re: Mansion 100k: top pair weak kicker
 

He might see two pair as vulnerable. I've been sweating my mate tonight in this tournie and I'm seeing all sorts of nonsense. He might be overexcited with any ace. He might be finding out where he stands with 77.

I just don't think this is a set or a big ace. I think worst case scenario is that we have three outs.

Re: Mansion 100k: top pair weak kicker
 

[ QUOTE ]
He might see two pair as vulnerable. I've been sweating my mate tonight in this tournie and I'm seeing all sorts of nonsense. He might be overexcited with any ace. He might be finding out where he stands with 77.

I just don't think this is a set or a big ace. I think worst case scenario is that we have three outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh, i agree that its very rarely a big ace (typically we'll see more action pf). i grouped two pair in with my "monsters" (since it is basically the nuts here).

Re: Mansion 100k: top pair weak kicker
 

Guess I forgot to give my opinion on the action....

I agree with the others that it's either a monster or air.

I'd lean toward air. Early on in a shortstack tourney, I'd tend think a monster hand would either c/r or c/c and move in on the turn.

Re: Mansion 100k: top pair weak kicker
 

Yeah I didn't see why an Ace would lead this flop when I'm c-betting pretty much any hand I raised with, and he's probably gonna make me fold a mid pair type hand. Given this I pushed, which I realized was wrong as soon as I did it- if I'm beaten I'm usually drawing to 3 outs or fewer, and he can pretty easily fold any non A hand. I guess my default is to worry about free cards but this is the kind of board where thats not an issue.

I guess calling down is right; you guys agree that when it IS a big ace, it's just a bad situation that, readless, you're gonna lose most or all of your chips to?

Re: Mansion 100k: top pair weak kicker
 

[ QUOTE ]
If I had to put villian on a hand, I think A3 or A6 is most likely, hoping to taking it down here and being afraid you'll check behind. Also, he's hoping you have an ace and will be willing to push it in he's face.

That being said, other hands that have been mentioned are certainly possibilites.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, 2 pair fearing the counterfeit.