Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

I understand that this may belong in BBV but you guys play at the same level that I do and so I think you will be able to help me more. I am currently going through a 300 BB downswing over the last month (over about 16000 hands), and have had one winning session of 25BB and two of 15 BB. The rest of either been very marginal winners and very big losers.

I have gone through fast downswings before and have heard of bad downswings that last 100000 hands but I am not adjusted to this. Luckily thanks to bonus plus rakeback my bankroll is up slightly. This is not a vent post but I am wondering what is the biggest and longest downswing you guys have gone through and how fast you made it back to where you were. Also post any funny stats or experiences during your downswings. Thanks guys.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

How large of a sample did you have before to determine that you are now in a downswing? What was your winrate?

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

You are now the member of a large and esteemed club:

300BB downswing club

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

Have you been thinking about the quality of your play? It's not necessarily true, but my bet is that you are suffering from "I think I'm better than I really am and shouldn't be losing this much" syndrome. I say this because I was once there.

Am I a professional impatiently tapping my foot wondering why I haven't been asked to hop in the well yet? No.

Am I still in a career destroying 450BB slump? After analyzing my play and adjusting, I can say no to this question too.

Questions for you: What stakes are you playing at? Were you playing comfortably at these stakes before the slump began? Where are you playing? Are you overdosing on multitables?

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

windydink, in all seriousness I bet that this is closely related to your first post where you had a plan to make 60k by 12 tabling or whatever the actual plan was. You may well be overextending yourself by playing too many tables and playing when you arent in a state to play your A game.
edit: okay, so I had another quick read of your make 60k post and if I read correctly this supposed downswing might ahve started before your plan. It is not the least bit suprising that it continued or got worse when you started your plan. In any event, when you play as many tables as you do your win rate will inevitably drop and thus any downturn is going to hit you harder since your winrate would be closer to zero.

In the end, most of us replying to this and that other post dont know how well you play and are going to be making assumptions. Basically the best person to diagnose your possible reasons as to why you are having a downswing is YOU although it would be fundamentally amiss of me to not mention Session Reviews as a way to get someone else to go over some hands for you. <font color="white"> 00Snitch, will probably make some comment about me pimping session reviews in a reply to this post...holla </font>
last time i had a downswing I grossly underestimated how much of the downswing was directly related to poor play on my part. Getting out of that downswing very much me involved fixing leaks in my game rather than waiting for the variance pendulum to swing back in my favour. If you want to read how I busted out of my self imposed downswing then the thread by me in the digest that is stickied at the top of the page.

Z

ps I love the fact that one can bonuswhore, lose heavily and still come out the other end with more money that one started with. The only problem is that the easy to clear bonuses do dry up somewhat and you'd have to move down to the list less easy ones.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

Appreciate the posts guys my horrible fortune continues. I have not made a straight or a flush in almost 1200 hands (no joke I swear), I have not hit a set with a pocket pair I did not raise with preflop in 1500 hands. But I have hit a few with AA and KK when I really did not need them. Anyway here is a look at my last couple of sessions.

UB $1/$2 Limit
1/31/07 10 PM-midnight, -20BB in 850 hands
2/1/07 4PM-7PM, -40 BB in 460 hands

I am a little more frustrated now than I was before because I am not really getting sucked out as much I am just not able to make a hand to save my life (flush, straight, or set). I have probably lost about 2/3rds worth of the downswing going after flushes and straights that are not coming. Or if I get them they lost to a better flush or get rivered by a full house. My stacks are now just slowly bleeding away because I am not willing to play crappy hands to try and rebuild my falling stack. My numbers are 17/11/2.7. I had a table earlier that I played 250 hands and saw the river 6 times. I also had a table in which I won 12 out of 188 hands and 10 of those were blind steals.

So just figured I would update you guys (if you care) and am again asking for some form ff friendly knowledge and support, thanks for your time.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

winky,

if it's any consolation (I know it won't be but anyways): that's exactly what's happening to me the last two days.

Stick with it.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

winky,check out this amazing article from the January 2+2 mag...it really gives you some things to think about, and I find it very calming.

Playing the Downswings - Cameron Harris

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

Thanks a lot I appreciate it.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

Take a Break.............

No poker for a week or two. No poker books, no 2+2, etc.


You need to let your mind settle back into "Winning" Mode again- and get it out of this "Sh*t, when is this F*ckin' nighmare going to end?????" Mode.

Don't take this as condescending- but I would suggest that only a small(ish) proportion of your downswing is due to variance. The rest is down to your play. If this is indeed the case (I've done it many times myself)- things won't change until you get the correct mindset back. Hence, a break is needed.

Ian

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

[ QUOTE ]
Take a Break.............

No poker for a week or two. No poker books, no 2+2, etc.


You need to let your mind settle back into "Winning" Mode again- and get it out of this "Sh*t, when is this F*ckin' nighmare going to end?????" Mode.

Don't take this as condescending- but I would suggest that only a small(ish) proportion of your downswing is due to variance. The rest is down to your play. If this is indeed the case (I've done it many times myself)- things won't change until you get the correct mindset back. Hence, a break is needed.

Ian

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I have considered taking a day off or two but that is really hard to do. I just want to play through it and get it over with. I feel like I am playing much better now than I did before the downswing. Funny to say that when I am down 365 BB over the last roughly 18K hands but I feel my decision making and reads on hands has been way better than before. Before the downswing I used to spew all over the place and at the beginning of the downswing (probably the first 100BB) I was playing the same way as before the downswing and all the stupidity was catching up to me fast. Now I have removed a lot of spew spots in my game and my discipline is better than ever. That and I have improved my ability to fold the second best hand. I am just not getting anything to correspond with my improvement as a player. Hopefully I can get a huge upswing at some point so my research and improvements will pay off for me.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

winky,

You've got like 5x as many hands as I do, so this is going to sound pretensious no matter what.

You're addicted to poker. You need to cut it out or it's going to eat you alive. Have a wank, take a week off, and don't play poker. don't think about it.

You're almost certainly a better player than I am, but you're still new and you will make mistakes. If you amplify a single leak by 3+ tables, you could start to lose money very, very fast.

Worse, judging from your writin here, you seem to have convinced yourself it's not your play that's at fault. Or at least that it's mostly luck.

This may be true, but it is a very dangerous thing to convince yourself of.

It is an addict's line of reasoning.

At the very least, stop playing more than 1 table. focus on getting better. you can play 6+ tables later.

unless you're living off poker, there's no point grinding this hard.

and you prolly shouldn't be living off poker.

2 facts:

People get better at things when they rest, not when they perform. This is why athletes take days off. You can't spend 8 hrs a day in the gym and you can't spend 8hrs a day playing poker and expect to get better.

Poker addiction works just like any other addiction. Same dopaminergic pathway, same symptoms, etc. Take it lightly at your own peril.

Seriously, take some time off, play fewer tables, and don't stress out about it.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

Being addicted to poker is not a problem for me trust me. I am just committed to improving and I feel like I am making more and more progress everyday (whether or not my results do the same). I am actually playing a little less now than I was before the downswing and I am studying more. The reason I think I am playing better is the player I was 25K hands ago would be down probably 420-450 BB instead of 365 BB.

BTW I do not play 8 hours a day. Maybe 2 or 3 at the most on any given day.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

suit yourself.

everyone here seems to be suggesting it's partly you're play and that you ought to mellow out and play less, but you're convinced it isn't.

if that's the case, then why are you even bothering with a BBV post like this? if you're the dog's bollocks and pok4r then just keep playing and it'll all even out. in fact, you're probably so good that we shoudl all be asking *you* for poker advice. right?

if you do agree it is the case that a good portion of the variance is your play, the stfu and listen to the advice these guys give you. they are better than you. you are not as good as you think.

or maybe you are! in which case don't bother asking questions a poker god like yourself wouldn't deign to ask.


just as in your big 'i'm gonna conquer the world post' you seem to not be able to make your mind up whether you should take advice from this forum or not. you like to make out like you're teh h4x at poker lol11omglol, but a 365BB downswing seems to suggest otherwise.

moral of the story: don't ask advice that you're just going to vocally discount anyway. it's obnoxious.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

"I have probably lost about 2/3rds worth of the downswing going after flushes and straights that are not coming"

That to me seems like a worry. I realise it is probably hard to view this objectively and I am not trying to be patronising, but you kind of sound from your post that you are on mega-tilt.

You talk a lot about never getting "hands" - sets, flushes, straights. Statistically you are not going to get hands like this often ie even if you have suited cards you are only going to hit your flush ~5-6% of the time.

If you are chasing big hands because you are concerned about getting your TPs outdrawn etc then you are probably neglecting your fundamentals.

I like what a lot of people have suggested. Take a couple weeks off poker - no poker at all.

Then go back and read SSHE - start off slowly, and get some confidence back.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

One thing I have done in a downswing is to fold marginal long shots. If I have a hand that has a slight +EV but is a long shot (i.e a gut shot with a huge pot) I will fold it. Of course, when your losing this is the exact OPPOSITE of what you want to do, because you see alllll of that money and you want it. Although I am also aware of the theory that you should never change how you play based upon how you are running, I think plays that can reduce your variance (especially if you are running thin on your bankroll) can help this "I can't catch a card" syndrome because you will be playing more hands that are more likely to pan out. You give up a few small pennies in EV, but the dollars you gain in mental sanity (and possibly help keep your bankroll alive) can help alot.

Good Luck.

DW

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

Winkydinky85,

Pick out your top 5 best played hands, your top 5 worst played hands and your top 5 worst beats from your recent sessions and post them here.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

winkydink, youve been somehwat razzed in this thread and I see why. I honestly really think you need someone else to look over you play objectively.

I therefore have a onetime special offer for you. Signup for session reviews and I will make sure you get paired with a known good reviewer who can go over some hands for you. For the sake of breaking out of a 300+ downswing dont let this offer slip by

Z

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

[ QUOTE ]
suit yourself.

everyone here seems to be suggesting it's partly you're play and that you ought to mellow out and play less, but you're convinced it isn't.

if that's the case, then why are you even bothering with a BBV post like this? if you're the dog's bollocks and pok4r then just keep playing and it'll all even out. in fact, you're probably so good that we shoudl all be asking *you* for poker advice. right?

if you do agree it is the case that a good portion of the variance is your play, the stfu and listen to the advice these guys give you. they are better than you. you are not as good as you think.

or maybe you are! in which case don't bother asking questions a poker god like yourself wouldn't deign to ask.


just as in your big 'i'm gonna conquer the world post' you seem to not be able to make your mind up whether you should take advice from this forum or not. you like to make out like you're teh h4x at poker lol11omglol, but a 365BB downswing seems to suggest otherwise.

moral of the story: don't ask advice that you're just going to vocally discount anyway. it's obnoxious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look I am not saying that I am some God of poker all I was trying to say is that in my opinion my play has improved because there were spots where before the downswing I was paying people off in spots in which I do not do now. I have stopped doing triple barrel bluffs and have not called near as many bets with just ace high. I have learned that they are not always bluffing me and that is the basis for my improvement as a player.

As it goes for the mega tilt comment that is also not the case. I have just been really dead on my draws for a long time. Of my last 50 flopped flush draws I have hit 7 of them. I do not have the calculations for straight draws though, they are not much better if at all. I do appreciate all of the advise whether it is to stop playing for a while and read SSHE again, or to just play through it and get some hand histories evaluated. Problem that I have with getting the hand histories evaluated is that I have been so card dead since I have been saving them that everything played is rediculously standard. But I will dig up a few and post them on here shortly.

I was posting this for support and for some knowledge on them. My downswings were always really quick and then I just got back up to par rather quickly after losing about 200BB or so. So this is just a new experience for me and so I am not used to going through one of these.

So let me ask you guys something really quick then. When you have looked back at your downswings and the hand histories what have you noticed that is different to mark you bad play of sorts?

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

I remember asking you how many tables you were planning on playing in that first post of yours and going back and forth with you, trying to warn you against your plan. The fact that your on a large downswing right now leads me to believe you should restrict the amount of tables you are playing.

How many tables are you playing currently? What is your VP$IP for the last.. 2 weeks of your play?

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have just been really dead on my draws for a long time. Of my last 50 flopped flush draws I have hit 7 of them. I do not have the calculations for straight draws though, they are not much better if at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like you believe that it is only variance. In that case, just keep playing your regular game. Check out BBV if you want to see how bad a downturn can be...

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

[ QUOTE ]
I remember asking you how many tables you were planning on playing in that first post of yours and going back and forth with you, trying to warn you against your plan. The fact that your on a large downswing right now leads me to believe you should restrict the amount of tables you are playing.

How many tables are you playing currently? What is your VP$IP for the last.. 2 weeks of your play?

[/ QUOTE ]

My VPIP has been at about 17% in the last two weeks. I have only played 9 tables once in the last couple of weeks and suprisingly that was my big winning session I have had over the last month (a whole 25BB lol).

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

[ QUOTE ]

My VPIP has been at about 17% in the last two weeks. I have only played 9 tables once

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the average number of tables you're playing though?
I think people that play 17% of there hands do so for one reason, they're playing to many tables and giving up 4% of the hands that are profitable.

So, how many tables do you normally play during a session? 6 or more?

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

Downswings do happen over long stretches, but I've found that most of it is in my own play.

Nine tables is too many to play at any period during a big downswing, especially if your downswing is affecting you emotionally. Poker profit comes from the quality of your decisions based on the quality of those around you. With each table you add, you narrow the margin between your estimate of the edge you have in a game and that of your opponents. Here's a chart that I'm pulling out of my ass:

Assuming 60 hands per hour per table on average.

1 table: 2.5BB/100, = 1.5BB/table hour
2 tables: 2.0BB/100, = 2.4BB/table hour
3 tables: 1.5BB/100, = 2.7BB/table hour
4 tables: 1.0BB/100, = 2.4BB/table hour
5 tables: 0.75BB/100 = 2.25BB/table hour
6 tables: 0.5BB/100 = 1.8BB/table hour
7 tables: 0.25BB/100 = 1.05BB/table hour
8 tables: 0.20BB/100 = 0.96BB/table hour
9 tables: 0.10BB/100 = 0.54BB/table hour

The closer your winrate approaches zero, the more variance you'll have.

If you are playing multiple tables, it has to be with the focus on increasing your hourly rate. I pulled these numbers out of my rear end, but it shows what I'm thinking of. You can pack in quite a few hands playing eight tables for a few hours a day. You might have a better hourly rate by playing less.

Someone mentioned a thread of yours that had a target $$ amount with a certain number of hands. Believe me, this isn't the way to plan. I remember sitting up late one night a couple of years ago with a calculator, and figuring that I'd be playing 5/10 in five months, easy. The math was all there. It's taken me this long to realize that I shouldn't even care how much I win or lose, only that I play my absolute best every time I sit down at the table. While it's good to have goals, I think this is the best goal. A $$ amount in X hands/months is results oriented.

It really takes the pressure off not to have to worry about winning. Sure, downswings are still tough. I get tilty, and probably always will. I just sit out and go do something else for awhile, come back later with a calculator and a notebook and review my hands from an EV standpoint. It turns out that most of my downswings are caused by my own bad decisions.

I've found a couple of books that help in this regard. Both of Larry Phillip's books, Zen and the Art of Poker and The Tao of Poker have helped me search for a calm inner place where I can basically ignore all the emotional stuff that goes on at the table.

I haven't found it yet. I truly hope you do.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

Normally I play about 6. My VPIP is much higher at other sites (Bodog especially), at Bodog it is in the low twenties. The tables at UB are much more aggressive than the tables at Bodog, Pokerstars, or Full Tilt. So facing a raise every pot makes me have to lay down a lot more hands preflop. My winrate at Bodog, Pokerstars and Full Tilt put together after about 45k hands is 1.5BB/100 hands. At UB after 30K hands it is at about -.8BB/100 hands.

I play the same when I play six tables as I do one. I can easily handle 6-9 tables resized at UB. But if there are less tables than that, that is fine I will just play whats available if some of the fish are there. I do not have to play six tables I just prefer to do it if possible. But I really do not want to play less than 3.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

Ego that is a great post.

I told you in the original post with your plan to make X$/X#hands that it was a recipe for disaster. The reason I said that is because I tried it as well. Ego tried it the same way I did... It's the wrong approach.

Poker is a game of making fewer mistakes than the people you sit with. When you play 9 tables, you will make small mistakes all over the place. It will kill your b/r.

The book Zen of Poker really helped me too, I read it really early in my poker life, It helped a lot.

Ego and I have both been at the phase you are at in your poker career. I'm not saying we are better than you at poker! All I am saying is that you're at a stage that we've both been at, we both regret the fact that it took us so long to get over that part of our learning process (I am assuming that).

Put the plan to make that money aside, play your next 5k hands with a promise to only play 4 tables at a time. When you're on a downswing you make so many mistakes you don't think about that it's nearly impossible to play more than 4 tables and hope to make a profit. Sure you'll run good sometimes and eek out a winning session.. but everyone can win a few hands in poker.

If you continue mutli-tabling to the extent you are right now you will lose your hard earned b/r.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

Well my bad fortune continues. I took a week off, looked at hand histories and all that good stuff and again saw progress and improvement in my play. But the bad beats and missed draws is rediculous. My downswing has hit 400 BB and the guys at BBV told me that is not that uncommon. I had a 35BB positive session then another -40 happened two more times.

I did not play a hand from from the end of last week until today and sat down feeling fresh and all that good stuff. Played my A-game again except for one loose call on the river. That is just playing at most 3 tables at a time (mostly because that is all that was available). I played 700 more hands today and am down another 80BB.

I really hate to give into superstition of just leaving a pokersite because one is running bad because it is not the pokersite but this has just been amazingly bad. I am down $800 over my last 30K hands and have had no bigger winning sessions than 50BB. I look at all these peoples charts and see multiple 100+BB winning days or 300+BB streaks over less than 5000 hands but I have not had a 100BB+ winning day in over 4 months.

This one is a bit of a vent post honestly, the other ones were not. I just do not understand how it is possible to run this unlucky for this long. I am running normal at the other sites, you know average a nice $2 per table hour with the occassional small up or down swing. But I just do not know what to do. I really do not want to stop playing at UB because like I said I think it is childish to leave a site because you are running bad.

I mean has anyone here bad a downswing that lasted longer than mine has or been bigger. I had a total of 12 straights and flush draws (only counting open ended straight draws)and I hit one of them. Then of course I got rivered by a full house and lost a 20BB pot.

Sorry guys maybe I am the unlucky one but I just do not know what to do anymore. I play so much better than the other players around me, they literally throw there money at me and build a huge pot, only to have it taken from me by some stupid miracle card. I know I want players to make stupid decisions and throw their money at me but how can I possibly run this bad for this long?

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

drop down a level, or however many levels it takes to start winning again.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

Per Aussie's suggestion above: Wink, not that I presume to be a great or even a good player or a top-flight reviewer but if you want to throw 150 or 200 hands my way I'd be happy to have a look for you. PM me if interested. I'm in Europe right now and it may take me a few days to get through them but I'll be happy to help if I can.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

winky,

[shameless self promotion] read this: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=2#Post9100863
[/SSP]

downswings are good because they stop rewarding your bad play.

Simply put: it's not just the cards. It's at least partly you.

You can choose to ignore this fact and keep losing money or you can open your ears/eyes, go back to basics, and fix your game.

Let me point something out to you, in case it's not clear. This post of yours is basically as follows:
you: woe is me, i'm losing money badly, what can I do?
us: you can do X, Y, Z
you: no, I don't want to (or don't need to, etc) do X,Y,Z.
us: .... okay. well, don't be surprised if you keep losing money.

I hate to be rude, but you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself, stop acting like a stubborn idiot (i'm not saying you are one, just that this specific behaviour pattern is), and you need to start listening to the advice these guys are giving you. If not me, then people lik OZ, fretloo, and all the other experienced players who've been so kind as to give you free, good advice.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

[ QUOTE ]
I understand that this may belong in BBV but you guys play at the same level that I do and so I think you will be able to help me more. I am currently going through a 300 BB downswing over the last month (over about 16000 hands), and have had one winning session of 25BB and two of 15 BB. The rest of either been very marginal winners and very big losers.

I have gone through fast downswings before and have heard of bad downswings that last 100000 hands but I am not adjusted to this. Luckily thanks to bonus plus rakeback my bankroll is up slightly. This is not a vent post but I am wondering what is the biggest and longest downswing you guys have gone through and how fast you made it back to where you were. Also post any funny stats or experiences during your downswings. Thanks guys.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read All Mason's 2+2 books and you will find that you are in the mathematical/statistical norm. Welcome to our world of Poker. Got the patience/professionalism for the long run?

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I understand that this may belong in BBV but you guys play at the same level that I do and so I think you will be able to help me more. I am currently going through a 300 BB downswing over the last month (over about 16000 hands), and have had one winning session of 25BB and two of 15 BB. The rest of either been very marginal winners and very big losers.

I have gone through fast downswings before and have heard of bad downswings that last 100000 hands but I am not adjusted to this. Luckily thanks to bonus plus rakeback my bankroll is up slightly. This is not a vent post but I am wondering what is the biggest and longest downswing you guys have gone through and how fast you made it back to where you were. Also post any funny stats or experiences during your downswings. Thanks guys.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read All Mason's 2+2 books and you will find that you are in the mathematical/statistical norm. Welcome to our world of Poker. Got the patience/professionalism for the long run?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the posts, all of you. I have taken your advise to heart. I took a week off (well six days but close enough). Read SSHE all over again and read WLLH again as well. Looked over my hand histories from now and then from about 12K hands ago and realized that my play has improved a ton. My progession as a player has been accelerated big time by this downswing.

Marty, I really appreciate you taking the time to post on here again even though you are irratated with me obviously. I read your posts and opinions and really took them to heart. But please understand that it is really hard to say that I am tilting or playing bad when I look over all the hand histories and see nothing but consistant improvement. Now I do not have Pokertracker yet and was going to get it through PSO but since I do not have an E-Wallet right now (waiting for the dust to settle), and then I will use that to help you guys in your evaluations of my play in the future.

I will read the books you listed there (assuming they are free). Hopefully they will help me feel better about this downswing and hopefully I can pull out of it sometime soon. Maybe in the end this downswing will be the best thing that ever happened to me as a poker player. Because without it I would not have plugged some of the leaks in my game and would not have spent as much time looking at other players mistakes and learning from them.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

Winkydink, FWIW I agree with alot of what marty wrote.....arent you the least bit interested in getting a second opinion on your play?...you know, our biggest leaks are the ones that we dont know about.

omg, you dont have pokertracker yet. really? are you multitabling without stats on a hud?

ozi

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

[ QUOTE ]
Winkydink, FWIW I agree with alot of what marty wrote.....arent you the least bit interested in getting a second opinion on your play?...you know, our biggest leaks are the ones that we dont know about.

omg, you dont have pokertracker yet. really? are you multitabling without stats on a hud?

ozi

[/ QUOTE ]

No I do not have Pokertracker and was literally going to get it the day the Neteller guys got arrested. I have had a couple of second opinions on my play. One was a former internet pro who moved on to own a business after he was down with online poker and the other is just a Micro Limit player such as myself.

The Micro Limit player did not see anything wrong with my play (He is a marginal winner such as myself at $1/$2 Limit. And the former online pro said that over the 500 hands I sent him that I should be destroying this Limit and that I should move up. I told him I want to be a solid defined winner at a level and reach a certain BR before I move up and he just told me that if I wait two more months (or however long it takes) that I will feel stupid for passing up that revenue potential from winnings plus rakeback plus bonus and points for cash.

So I got halfway decent advise from a fellow Micro Limit player and got crappy advise from a former pro. Gotta love how that works.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

sorry mate, don't mean to be rude. i don't like it whene people yell at me and i don't like to do it to others. so sorry if i got on your case.

but as oz says, second opinions are *critical*. going over your own play is a great thing to do, but if you really wanna improve, let someone else go over your play.

it hurts sometimes, but it's for your own good. a good reaming once a week or so is good for your poker health.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

I know you do not mean to be rude and I am not near as stubborn as my posts seem to come off as. Like I said I took a week off and studied and felt from that I had an even better grasp for the game then before. Once I get Pokertracker I will start having some others check them out if they are interested. I really got nothing out of the other two that looked at them, just bad advise.

Also keep in mind that I am not desperate to make this 60K+ annually but I own a business right now that pays all of my expenses easily I just wanted this to be something on the side I could do to save up for a house in the future. I do not want to mortgage I want to just pay it off and be able to live easily in a home without throwing away money in an apartment.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

[ QUOTE ]
I play the same when I play six tables as I do one.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an extremely stupid statement. You will always play differently with 6 open tables then with one. It gets even more stupid after you tell us you're not using a HUD. Nobody can monitor 60 players at once.

Move down to where they don't respect your raises. Your BB/100 will go up and you may well make the same money with less variance.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I play the same when I play six tables as I do one.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an extremely stupid statement. You will always play differently with 6 open tables then with one. It gets even more stupid after you tell us you're not using a HUD. Nobody can monitor 60 players at once.

Move down to where they don't respect your raises. Your BB/100 will go up and you may well make the same money with less variance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really I have no problem playing six tables at once. In fact I would guess I would play better at six tables per table than one because I would be miserable playing one table.

I want to be able to beat $1/$2 Limit and I have a larger than needed bankroll (around $3300)for it and moving down will halt my progress. If I did not have the bankroll I have no problem with moving down but I want to be able to beat $1/$2 Limit. I feel like I am making way better decisions than the other players at my table and feel like I could be a winning player at $2/$4 and $3/$6 but do not want to move up until I can put that on paper. And I will not move up period until I know that I have beaten that level. Actually this has given me an idea for an interesting topic I will put up shortly.

Re: Long downswing just have some questions for you guys
 

[ QUOTE ]
Per Aussie's suggestion above: Wink, not that I presume to be a great or even a good player or a top-flight reviewer but if you want to throw 150 or 200 hands my way I'd be happy to have a look for you. PM me if interested. I'm in Europe right now and it may take me a few days to get through them but I'll be happy to help if I can.

[/ QUOTE ]

winky,

it is good you are replying to hands and all that but honestly it would be foolish of you not to accept this offer from Origami. The feedback I get says he does excellent reviews and plays at UB. just do it. what have u got to lose?

If you are concerned about giving out your screen name then just search and replace.

ozi