Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Shout it out
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why can't one be proud to be a straight white male?

[/ QUOTE ] You are absolutely right. You should indeed be proud.

And I'm proud to have two eyes and two legs.

I'm also extremely proud of my tonsils (never bothered me) and yesterday's weather. It was simply magnificent!

Mickey Brausch

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a white male
 

Because of the historical position of white men, their accomplishments and successes are frequently attributed to their culture or society as a whole. E.g., most Americans feel pride in the Founding Fathers, even though they were white men. Minority groups tend to have prominent figures that are "their own" in that members of other groups feel less of a connection to them.

So, I suppose you could be proud of being a white male specifically, but what exactly are you celebrating?

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

You didn't get the memo? We are the root of all evil, duhz.

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

[ QUOTE ]
You didn't get the memo? We are the root of all evil, duhz.

[/ QUOTE ]

Naw, it's because we oppress everyone else. Ooh snap, it's getting late, I haven't oppressed anyone yet today! Gotta run...

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

[ QUOTE ]
?

[/ QUOTE ]

Its odd. I'm proud of who I am. I'm a married man, an expectant father, bored of my job but successful. But I don't see any pride in the color of my skin, my gender or my sexuality. Its not like I chose any of them. I didn't have to accomplish anything because of them or overcome any obstacle because of those traits. Where is the pride coming from exactly?

As another person said... should I be proud for having 10 fingers? Or proud of my height?

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

Would you be proud of hitting your number in roulette?

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

[ QUOTE ]
There are loads of normal women who are feminimists/pround to be women

Gays who are proud of that

Blacks the same

On and on and on

[/ QUOTE ]

Simply saying, "I'm proud to be a straight white male," in a public forum would probably be construed as being racist/sexist/homophobic etc. all at once.

These sentiments are equally racist, etc. when they come from minorities, but we oppress them, so it's justified. Just today I personally oppressed 6 blacks, 8 women, 3 gays, and a Jew just for good measure!

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why is this?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you go to china then I'm sure there will be clubs specifically for white people, and none for chinese. Why is that?

The real question is why white males are considered the normative dominant group in a country where they are an overall minority.

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There are loads of normal women who are feminimists/pround to be women

Gays who are proud of that

Blacks the same

On and on and on

[/ QUOTE ]

Simply saying, "I'm proud to be a straight white male," in a public forum would probably be construed as being racist/sexist/homophobic etc. all at once.

These sentiments are equally racist, etc. when they come from minorities, but we oppress them, so it's justified. Just today I personally oppressed 6 blacks, 8 women, 3 gays, and a Jew just for good measure!

[/ QUOTE ]

FYI, if you just oppressed black female lesbian jews it would be an easier way to meet the oppression quota.

But srsly, white straight males run the country, publically and privately. Some club is usually either the product of: #1) minorities trying to find similar people to hang with or #2) developed to further some interest they think is being neglected. Straight white European-mut males are everywhere, so we don't need #1. And we can't really claim to being oppressed and be taken seriously, so there goes #2. There's probably other motivations along racial/ethnic lines, but I'd imagine those are the main two.

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

As a straight white male, I'd like to thank all the straight white men on the forum who don't make pathetic threads about how oppressed they are.

You're a dying breed.

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

[ QUOTE ]
And we can't really claim to being oppressed and be taken seriously,

[/ QUOTE ]

Does affirmative action oppress white people or black people?

I am an engineering major. In order to get a merit scholarship to my institution, as a white male, I have to meet some pretty lofty academic standards. In order for a black or a woman to get a merit scholarship to my institution, they need to have a high school diploma. A black woman only needs a pulse.

I don't even consider that case to be a problem because it's all done voluntarily (I do consider affirmative action to be a problem), but I think a case could be made that white males are indeed oppressed in some ways. In the case of affirmative action this case would be quite simple.

As far as being oppressed "by society" or "overall"...how do you define that? I will say that I DEFINITELY don't think women or blacks meet this standard today. Gays possibly. I can't really think of any ways they are favored over straight people off-hand, unlike blacks and women over white men. Just my totally subjective opinion.

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

bisonbison,

Just to show that I am always on the lookout for truly oppressed minorities (unlike blacks and women), I came to the aid of the zoosexual community when our very own liberal and politically correct moderator revealed his hatred for them.

Link

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

Sure, you're free to argue that. But in the grand scheme from birth to where you are now, most people won't consider you "oppressed" in the way they consider minorities "oppressed". It's like if there is a race, and you have shoes with a 2lb weight on them, and others have shoes with a 10lb weight on them, it's kinda hard to get all up in arms and be taken seriously by everyone with more weights than you. It doesn't matter if you think the weights are different, society's perceptions of those weights matter with respect to the political/social reaction to white straight male suport groups.

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

[ QUOTE ]
bisonbison,

Just to show that I am always on the lookout for truly oppressed minorities (unlike blacks and women), I came to the aid of the zoosexual community when our very own liberal and politically correct moderator revealed his hatred for them.

Link

[/ QUOTE ]

From that thread I want to quote my favorite post in the history of 2+2, made by anatta:

[ QUOTE ]
As long as the animal is over 18 in people years, I'm okay with it. I'll tolerate black guys having sex with white animals. And while its not my scene, I got no problem with same sex relations between people and animals. I draw the line at interracial, interspecie, gay sex. That just ain't natural.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

bills,

It's great that you want to equate the molestation of domesticated animals to sex between consenting adults, but it's beside the point.

So you want to be proud of an accident of birth. What's stopping you? All those big bad opinions out there?

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

[ QUOTE ]
bills,

It's great that you want to equate the molestation of domesticated animals to sex between consenting adults, but it's beside the point.

[/ QUOTE ]

WOAHHH! That's some pretty strong hate there! You must have missed the part of the thread where I painstakingly linked to peer-reviewed articles from scientific journals that stated that human-animal sexual interaction is often consensual, and that in fact animals often eschewed sex with their own species in favor of humans!

But I suppose that would contradict your agenda of hate.

Perhaps you should change your screen name to bigotbigot.

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

[ QUOTE ]
So you want to be proud of an accident of birth. What's stopping you? All those big bad opinions out there?

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you miss the part of this thread where I stated my distaste for such pride?

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There are loads of normal women who are feminimists/pround to be women

Gays who are proud of that

Blacks the same

On and on and on

[/ QUOTE ]
Simply saying, "I'm proud to be a straight white male," in a public forum would probably be construed as being racist/sexist/homophobic etc. all at once.
<font color="white"> . </font>
These sentiments are equally racist, etc. when they come from minorities, but we oppress them, so it's justified. Just today I personally oppressed 6 blacks, 8 women, 3 gays, and a Jew just for good measure!

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on, folks, it's really very simple:

As already said, proclaiming pride for something that is a matter of pure chance, e.g. being born white, is like proclaiming pride for hitting a number in rouletter. You were just lucky, pal.

However, when the attribute being celebrated concerns a minority, and, moreover, a minority that has been in the past (or still is) oppressed, then there is an added significance to that atttribute. It acquires the significance of rejecting or accepting the social status of that minority, i.e. by proclaiming pride, one is essentially proclaiming one's willingness to (a) accept one's fate as member of X, and (b) fight discrimination against X.

The whole issue reduces to whether or not X is still a percecuted minority. For example, you can no longer say, and expect us to keep a straight face, that you are proud to be a believer in Round Earth.

Mickey Brausch

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

That's some pretty strong hate there! You must have missed the part of the thread where I painstakingly linked to peer-reviewed articles from scientific journals that stated that human-animal sexual interaction is often consensual, and that in fact animals often eschewed sex with their own species in favor of humans!

Bills, if you'd reread your own thread, I replied 5 times. 2 months ago.

Given your affection for ACism, I'd think you'd value an affective relationship between two peers over an affective relationship where one party has no meaningful means of redressing wrongs.

Unless you're granting the animal in such a relationship basic rights equivalent to its partner (like, say, freedom from arbitrary murder), then the fundamental dynamic remains one of force. American slave owners who had sex with slaves didn't always coerce their partners, but the fact remains that the partner's consent was fundamentally irrelevant.

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

[ QUOTE ]
?

[/ QUOTE ]

You can be proud of anything you wish. The fact that you are proud isn't any "reason" to be proud though.

Ah well, I guess, if you have nothing else to be proud about and you feel victimized, you poor sod! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

Did you miss the part of this thread where I stated my distaste for such pride?

I actually misread your post. Consider my open questions aimed at Degen.

However, when you say that "white man pride" is equally as racist as "black man pride" are you implying that either is actually substantivelly harmful/racist?

If so, you're conflating pride in yourself with disdain for others, which is exactly the relationship the "why can't I be a proud white guy" crowd says is absent from their personal pride.

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
?

[/ QUOTE ]

Its odd. I'm proud of who I am. I'm a married man, an expectant father, bored of my job but successful. But I don't see any pride in the color of my skin, my gender or my sexuality. Its not like I chose any of them. I didn't have to accomplish anything because of them or overcome any obstacle because of those traits. Where is the pride coming from exactly?

As another person said... should I be proud for having 10 fingers? Or proud of my height?

[/ QUOTE ]


Your analogy doesn't work because there are lots of people who celebrate race, gender and sexuality who are not straight white men.

There are loads of normal women who are feminimists/proud to be women

Gays who are proud of that

Blacks the same

[/ QUOTE ]
We think it's dumb that they're proud of it too, at least me and Kurto. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Shout it out
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why can't one be proud to be a straight white male?

[/ QUOTE ] You are absolutely right. You should indeed be proud.

And I'm proud to have two eyes and two legs.

I'm also extremely proud of my tonsils (never bothered me) and yesterday's weather. It was simply magnificent!

Mickey Brausch

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a white male
 

[ QUOTE ]
So, I suppose you could be proud of being a white male specifically, but what exactly are you celebrating?


[/ QUOTE ]

Building the bulk of Western civilization. That's all.

Pick up any history text from before 1970 and you'll see much about the white male. After that it seems that history 'changed'.

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's like if there is a race, and you have shoes with a 2lb weight on them, and others have shoes with a 10lb weight on them...

[/ QUOTE ]

...that were painstakingly fashioned for them by their parent (often only one) and their culture.

For this I am sorry but no longer willing to pay for.

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why can't one be proud to be a straight white male

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't this question imply there's something stopping you from feeling proud about being a white, straight, male?

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

As someone already said, we can be proud to have built the most affluent and civilzed societies in the history of man. That's pretty frickin amazing and I for one am indeed proud. But for some reason I don't feel the need to say it publicly or march down the street in a parade to that effect.

The reason is that that type of approach is for people with low self-esteem. They endorse the fact that others exercise power over them and are essentially crying out to them, pleading them to change their ways.

A self-confident fighter, in contrast, just puts on his gloves and gets out in the ring whenever the situation demands it.

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

Here are some holidays designed to celebrate the accomplishments of straight white men:

Independence Day
Presidents Day
Columbus Day
Veterans Day (Army wasn't integrated in WWI)
Labor Day

I agree with the liberals here who are saying that taking pride in your group has a lot to do with advancing your groups goals. However, I also see Degen's point that if a college group was formed today with a goal of "white empowerment" that school could expect a visit from Jesse Jackson. I think this is due to the perception that White Men don't need to advance, they already have a huge head start.

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

[ QUOTE ]
However, I also see Degen's point that if a college group was formed today with a goal of "white empowerment" that school could expect a visit from Jesse Jackson. I think this is due to the perception that White Men don't need to advance, they already have a huge head start.

[/ QUOTE ]

The other problem is -- and I understand some people are solely interested in being prideful of their own heritage, and certainly harbor no ill will to others -- but one issue with "white empowerment movements" is that the only people currently talking about "white empowerment" just so happen to be the types of people who live in Aryan Nation compounds in Idaho or who blowup federal buildings Oklahoma City. Whether it's fair or not, any "white power" movement probably stands a good chance to get lumped in with those guys.

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a white male
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So, I suppose you could be proud of being a white male specifically, but what exactly are you celebrating?


[/ QUOTE ]

Building the bulk of Western civilization. That's all.

Pick up any history text from before 1970 and you'll see much about the white male. After that it seems that history 'changed'.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the back of a world which owes much to arabs, asians and africans......

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

The reason straight white males have left such a legacy in world history is precisely that straight white males don't feel that sitting around being proud to be straight and white and male is really a worthwhile endeavor all by itself.

Let someone else waste their time in meetings telling each other how proud they all should be. You get YOUR straight white male ass to your engineering design class!

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your analogy doesn't work because there are lots of people who celebrate race, gender and sexuality who are not straight white men.



[/ QUOTE ]

First off, I listed what I find pride in... not others.

Second, all of my traits are in the norm and preferred. I haven't been oppressed because of my white skin. I haven't had to overcome gender bias for being male. I didn't have to hide and feel shame because I'm straight. If I had been brought up to feel any of those were shameful and then realized it was okay, I might NOW take pride in those qualities. But since that didn't happen and all those traits were considered normal, I have no reason to now reclaim 'pride' in them.

Does that make sense to you?

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

quote] [ QUOTE ]
Why can't one be proud to be a straight white male

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't this question imply there's something stopping you from feeling proud about being a white, straight, male?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pride is an ego driven personal flaw. A self acknowledgement that one is better than another.
When pride concerns things over which you have no control it is disturbing.

Synonyms 1. Pride, conceit, self-esteem, egotism, vanity, vainglory imply an unduly favorable idea of one's own appearance, advantages, achievements, etc., and often apply to offensive characteristics. Pride is a lofty and often arrogant assumption of superiority in some respect: Pride must have a fall. Conceit implies an exaggerated estimate of one's own abilities or attainments, together with pride: blinded by conceit. Self-esteem may imply an estimate of oneself that is higher than that held by others: a ridiculous self-esteem. Egotism implies an excessive preoccupation with oneself or with one's own concerns, usually but not always accompanied by pride or conceit: His egotism blinded him to others' difficulties. Vanity implies self-admiration and an excessive desire to be admired by others: His vanity was easily flattered. Vainglory, somewhat literary, implies an inordinate and therefore empty or unjustified pride: puffed up by vainglory. 5. boast.
—Antonyms 1. humility.

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

you can but thats kinda silly IMO

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is due to the perception that White Men don't need to advance, they already have a huge head start.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think you meant to say reality, not perception.

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

Being proud of an accident of chance is an incredibly foolish thing indeed. See also; Patriotism and the fish on Party Poker who fill their gutshots on the river and proclaim their poker genius.

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

What have you done with youre life??
ehh...well im a white straight male.

I think that being proud of that means you havent done anything useful ever.

Re: Why can\'t one be proud to be a straight white male
 

Re: Why can't one be proud to be a straight white male

What's to be proud about? Go drive around in any part of the rural South. You'll find quite a few proud, white, straight males. They're totally happy about it too. Nothing more than that either. They're completely happy with just being white, straight and male. There's nothing interesting about them, BUT, they are white, straight and male.