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My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
Several posters have asked me to post about the CIA, so here it is. Looks like I'm doing this in two installments. Feel free to ask questions.
Life and Times at the CIA Senior year of college at Emory University I decided that I might like to cook for a living. So I get a job at a local pizzaria to confirm this desire. I start looking into culinary schools and quickly learn that the best in all the land is the Culinary Institute of America. I also find a good school in my home town which would be less expensive considering I'd be able to live with my parents and bike to school. However, the CIA is the best so if I could get in, that is where I wanted to go. I applied. The CIA is the only culinary school in America that actually denies some applicants. Their acceptance rate is still around 67% though. Regardless, I was thrilled when I was accepted. They admitted me to the Oct 21, 2002 starting class. There are 16 different starting dates. About 90 students per start date. These would be the 90 students with whom I would take all of my classes for the next two years. Now, 18 of those students are in the Baking and Pastry program, while 72 are with me in the Culinary Arts program. Our 72 are further divided into evening and morning classes. 36 of us would take classes starting at 7am, ending around 1:30. The other 36 take the exact same classes from 2:00-9:00. My 36 are further divided into two groups of 18 for cooking classes. That is, I'd be taking a 6-hour, 5-day a week cooking class with the same 18 people for 9 months. Now, that's a bit of an exageration, halfway through, the 2 AM-groups get rejumbled. Point is, you spend A LOT of time with the same group of students. I've been careful saying "students" instead of "kids". At 22, I was the third oldest in my group of 36. We had one 40-year old in our group. Most of the students in my group were 18 year-olds just out of HS. This may have had something to do with the Fall start date - our class averages were younger than CIA average. 12% of CIA students have a BA or better from a traditional 4-year college. I think 50-60% are just out of HS. The average age is 23. These students, most notably the young ones, are some of the most committed, driven students that I've ever had the pleasure of studying with. I was continually amazed by these 18-year olds considering that at that age I had no idea what I wanted to do for a living and was more interested in pot and basketball than anything else. So much of the Institute is student run. These kids create clubs on a whim and organize student-given lectures, get visiting lecturers/chefs, organize outings, etc. What is so incredible about this is the difficulty of continuity at the CIA. You have new students coming in every 3 weeks, old students graduating or leaving to go on externship (will explain later), not to mention the problem of AM/PM groupings dividing the student body in half. SOOO many student clubs doing so many exciting things. It was awesome. AND so many students taking advantage of these opportunities. I "learned" how to ice-carve (I've done only 2 sculptures) thanks to these groups. The first 6 weeks were spent in academic classrooms taking classes like Culinary Math, Product Knowledge, Gastronomy, and food safety. These would be just like classes at any college. We'd meet 2 or 3 times a week for 2 hours or 90 minutes. Dress code would be either Business casual or chef's whites (chef jacket and houndstooth pants). During this time, 7 of us get together and form a basketball team to play in an intramural league (the league was divided into AM and PM divisions). Those games were a lot of fun. I lived on campus in a tiny dormroom shared with two others. The Campus at Hyde Park is absolutely beautiful. It is right on the banks of the Hudson River in a quiet town just north of Poughkeepsie. Halfway through this academic session, we are told we need to pick a group leader. The group leader's primary responsibility is to meet with the teacher of our next class (we take a new class every 3 weeks, and only one 30-hour a week class at a time). The group leader also has to take some measure of responsibilty for keeping the group cohesive. The group leader gets a shiny pin. It is gold. OK, so at the end of the first 6 weeks of academic classes, we go to our first kitchen class. Meat and seafood Identification. We spend 7 days butchering meat for production kitchens and 7 days fileting fish. These classes would work like so: we arrive at 7AM, and sit down for 30-45 minutes of lecture. Then we'd go into the back and start our butchery. After 2 hours of butchery, we'd eat lunch from one of the production kitchens - perhaps even eating meat or fish that we had butchered the previous day. We'd get back from lunch, and go directly back to more butchery - maybe another hour and a half. We'd finish the class with another 30-45 minute lecture. These classes were fun, but the fish room was damn cold. I learned so much and forgotten at least half of it, I'm sure. We'd get graded on academic and kitchen performance. I got my worst grade at the CIA, an embarrassing C- in Seafood identifictation. The teacher of that class, Chef Clark, is perhaps my favorite Chef in the whole world. He's on that short list of best teachers I've ever had. This man learned to cook in the US navy in Vietnam. He stayed in cooking, obv, and had a distinguished carreer, I'm sure (all of our teachers did). He was incredibly strict. One day he locked me and two others out of the classroom for failing to return in time after a 5-minute break. I had left the classroom 30 seconds earlier to visit the water fountain across the hall. When he let us in, he told us to "pack our knives and go" - that he was failing us. We knew better by that time than to argue, but mercifully, it was a bluff. This man told us some awesome cooking stories, but more importantly, he built the foundation for a professional attitude towards cooking. After butchery, we move to three more cooking classes - Skills I, Skills II, and, yes, Skills III. Skills III is our first production kitchen - we'd cook meals for other students or CIA personal to eat. Skills I & II were a total of 28 days with the same teacher spending 2 days on potatoes, 3 days on eggs, etc - we learned things like how to make a Hollandaise or how to make a consomme. Every day we'd have a timed kinfe skills development period - Chop an onion, chop parsely, chop carrots to a particular size, etc. We'd then show our product to the chef who would tell us how to do it better/faster. A "Medium dice" is a cut measuring .5x.5x.5. We need to know how to do this exactly so that when a chef tells us, "give me a medium dice of potatoes - 2 pounds" he doesn't have to waste time showing us the size of the dice that he wants. These knife skills cuts are then given to production kitchens for their use. We are also making stocks for production kitchens (and for our education). After the skills kitchens, we move on to regional cuisines. 3 weeks of Asia, 3 weeks of the Americas. These are production kitchens in which we are cooking for other students and administrators. In Asias, for example, I'd be on a 3-man team (probably 4-5 women in a class of 18). Each day we'd have a different assignment. Lets say the first 3 days of Asia were Chinese cuisine - we'd wok stir-fried pork on day one, roll spring rolls on day two, and on day three we'd make the hot & sour soup. The night before we'd write out recipes (98% of the time given to us by the Chef) and we'd divide up responsibilities within our team - i.e., "you cut the Carrots, onions, and peppers, I'll gather and mix our sauce." In these classes, we'd spend 30-45 minutes at 7am going over our minimal homework (term identification, perhaps reading a certain section of On Food And Cooking, etc) We'd then prepare lunch for the student body. We'd eat our own lunch (whatever we cooked that wasn't "sold") and then return to clean the kitchen. We'd then spend 30-45 minutes discussing the region of the day and its food. If you're curious, a member of the student body can't just choose to eat from Asias one day and then from Americas the next. Every student had an assigned kitchen to get their meals from and a card to swipe insuring that they are at the correct kitchen. You still get incredible variety of food - 5 entrees per day, and for these cuisine classes, you knew that the class was cooking New England food today, but tomorrow it might be SW US food, or northern mexican food. I have NEVER in my life eaten as good as I did at the CIA. MY GOD! The amazing thing is these are all dishes that the students have NEVER MADE BEFORE!!!! They come in at 7am on Day one knowing nothing and then must produce food for someone else to eat 4 hours later. The Chef/instructors just have great systems in place allowing it all to work. Much credit must be given to the Chefs for making this work. We'd also have the Bakers bring over their creations from across the way for dessert. The two most difficult classes were Breakfast and Lunch Cookery. For Day one of Breakfast, we reported to class at 2:30 AM. Every other day it was 4:00 AM. We'd be cooking breakfast not just for a small handfull of people, but for EVERYONE. All AM students had the right to eat breakfast meaning we had to be ready to cook for over 100. This is difficult. The final class before externship is Garde Manger (pronounced Gar-mon-je). This is where we learn the art of the cold kitchen.... or salads. Also pates, tourines, amuses, cheese, gelees, etc. We were also excitedly telling each other where we would be spending the next 5 months. I would be going to Hawaii for my externship (which was AWESOME!). This has gotten quite long, so I'm cutting it short here. In the next installment I'll talk about my externship, year 2, and now that you've got the groundwork for how the school works, I might talk about things like how the class got along, etc. |
Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
Great post, I've always thought about going to the CIA, look forward to the next!
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Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
This was awesome, thanks for sharing.
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Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
Proud CIA dropout! I started in the summer of 2002. Chef Clark was the nuts, he had a breakdown towards the end of our block though. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
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Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
I've always sort of considered CIA, but I really don't think I could dedicate myself to that kind of schedule. How many hours a week would you say you dedicated to school/currently dedicate to your job if you're working in the culinary field?
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Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
Great post, CSC. Awaiting part two, and then the barrage of questions may begin.
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Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
best Tr since the guy in the illinois prison system
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Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
CSC, this is awesome. Thanks so much for writing all this up. I definitely look forward to the next round.
One thing I didn't get: who got the food besides the other students? There must have been a surplus; there's more cooking than eating. You mentioned "selling" the food, but I gathered that meant to the other classes. Is it also sold to restaurants/outsiders? -Sam |
Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
Also:[ QUOTE ]
The final class before externship is Garde Manger (pronounced Gar-mon-je) [/ QUOTE ] Did you learn much french while you were there? Obviously there are some basic french terms that you had to pick up, and I know that other school has the all the real frenchies. Did they make you take any language classes? -Sam |
Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
CSC,
Thanks for posting this. You said some applicants are denied. What are the reasons someone would get denied? What was the total tuition you paid for the 2 years? You mentioned "On food and Cooking." I just bought that a couple weeks ago. Awesome book! |
Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
[ QUOTE ]
One thing I didn't get: who got the food besides the other students? There must have been a surplus; there's more cooking than eating. You mentioned "selling" the food, but I gathered that meant to the other classes. Is it also sold to restaurants/outsiders? -Sam [/ QUOTE ] There are several restaurants on the campus. |
Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
Also, there is a ton of waste, but they do a really good job of making sure most of the food gets eaten considering the circumstances.
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Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
CSC,
I've read a ton of books about this stuff and still really, really enjoyed your post. Eagerly looking forward to more. |
Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
Wildz,
30 hours per week in classes. During my first year, I did hold a 20-30 hour part time job as a waiter. I'm currently just playing the poker. At my last cooking job, they cared greatly about OT, so I'd put in 38-43 hours a week. |
Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
What a good post Cardsharp. I took a year off of college somewhat knowing I wasn't going back and am very interested in the CIA at hyde park. I'll think of some questions for you.
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Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
Sam,
"Selling" is a culinary term for finding someone to consume a dish OR to send a dish out into the restaurant. Chef: How's that Salmon dish, Brendan? Brendan: Sell it. Line guy #2: No you can't sell it yet, the Steak that goes with it needs another minute. People who eat out of the production kitchens: 1. Students in non-production classes including all students in the Bachelors portion of the program (40-month program compared to the 21-month Associate's program. The extra 19 months are spent in academic classrooms essentially taking general distribution type classes) 2. Administrators, custodial, etc. 3. Bakers. At the end of the program each student will cook in 3 of the 4 on campus restaurants open to the public. There is a good deal of waste, but like Ed says, they do a damn fine job of using most of the food. |
Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
Denials are mostly for insufficient real world cooking experience or not meeting academic standards.
Total tuition was $44k I believe. Another $4k for housing. Ron, there are sections of OFAC that I have highlighted in five different colors. I DON'T have more than 1 highlighter on me at any given time. |
Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
If I were to have stayed on for the Bachelor's Program, I would have had to take a language class. As is, I merely learned culinary terms that only have a french name. However, I found out the hard way that there used to be a class called Culinary French. I say the hard way because during my "practical" - a year end solo test to confirm we are ready for the field - the Chef asked me something like What is a Bouillibase? I answered incorrectly whereupon he informed me of the former course. Sadly, I could have arrived at the correct answer if I had reasoned through it a different way.
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Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
Ed, apparently we were there at the same time as I started in Oct 2002.
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Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
CSC - fantastic post. Anxiously looking forward to part 2.
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Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
Good post. I never really asked you about any of this stuff, but I find it fascinating.
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Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
[ QUOTE ]
Proud CIA dropout! I started in the summer of 2002. [/ QUOTE ] So you went to, or at least intended to go to CIA, and you post in OOT 100 times a day, but you don't participate in Iron Chef OOT? WHAT UP WITH THAT? |
Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
Actually, I'll write this part breifly.
The Practical Far be it for the CIA to allow its good name to be smeared by ill-prepared students, each student must pass a year end practical before being cleared for externship. We knew that we would have to cook one of 5 dishes - a meal for two - in something like 2 hours. We knew the meat component, and the starch. The veg would be up to use, however we were not allowed to "boil and butter" - that is boil a green veg and then serve it with salt and butter. So you had to prepare for five different meals. When you arrived, you were assigned a dish, and given a start time. The more prepared students (meaning just about all of us) were sure to go by the kitchen the day before to check out the lay of the land, where the pots and pans were located, and possibly even what veggies might still be in the fridge when it was our turn to go. When our start time came up, the chef would sit us down and ask us 10 oral questions, each worth 2 points or so. We then cook our meal provided that we got the minimum # of questions correct. We were then graded on the meal. The meal would be worth 80 points. So, on a 100 point scale we got our grade. I belive 70 was passing, and I believe I got a 72. Probably 75% of the students passed the first time, the rest needing to retake the rather difficult exam later in the week. Its pretty cool system. While it is unlikely that a student could make it that far and be unable to pass, there is the potential for a student to be carried by his classmates as much of the cooking in other classes is done in teams. |
Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
CSC,
Awesome posts. These remind me of my days in c-school. Like edfurlong, I'm a proud dropout (from Cal. Culinary Academy). Thanks for doing these! |
Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
[ QUOTE ]
At my last cooking job, they cared greatly about OT, so I'd put in 38-43 hours a week. [/ QUOTE ] How common is this? A friend of mine who encourages me to take up cooking just finished a year at the Waterside Inn and he was working 55-70 hour weeks. I thought this was more the standard in fine kitchens. Do I stand any chance of working regular hours if I make a career change? |
Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
[ QUOTE ]
Awesome posts. These remind me of my days in c-school. Like edfurlong, I'm a proud dropout (from Cal. Culinary Academy). Thanks for doing these! [/ QUOTE ] Hey Chimp, I've heard a lot of bad things about CCA but would love to go since I live in SF, would love to hear you chime in here with your experience, how it compares to the CIA, etc. |
Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
[ QUOTE ]
This was awesome, thanks for sharing. [/ QUOTE ] One of my best friends from high school graduated from CIA about 4 years ago. He absolutely loved it. |
Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
I liked CCA. When I went (2000-2001), it was not affiliated with le cordon bleu, so I don't know what has changed.
The students and the chefs were quality people. Our schedule was much like what CSC described. Each class was two weeks long, meaning 10 classes. The program only lasted a year to a year and a half, whereas CIA was 3 years, I think. I don't know if CIA had longer classes, or more of them, or both, but it is definitely considered a superior education to CCA. My biggest gripes about CCA were the cost and the fact that there were no business classes (eg, food costs, labor, mgt). I know CIA has those. I don't know if CCA has changed this, but if not, this would be the biggest reason not to go. But if you don't want to own your own place and just want to better your cooking skills, CCA is good. Like I said, the chefs there are solid (charlie trotter went there...a proud dropout too!). I dropped out b/c of money. I just didn't feel I was getting my money's worth. But that's not a slam on CCA. I don't know that I wld have felt I was anywhere. CIA is the best school, but it was even more expensive. |
Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
[ QUOTE ]
So you went to, or at least intended to go to CIA, and you post in OOT 100 times a day, but you don't participate in Iron Chef OOT? WHAT UP WITH THAT? [/ QUOTE ] I keep thinking about picking up a camera just so I can play, unfortunately I'm really bad at buying things. It requires weeks of agonizing over it before I drop the hammer. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] edit: oops [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] |
Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
CSC,
I don't know if this means much to you, but the Hobnobin' Pub and Toucan's are no more. |
Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
I liked toucans. It was funny to CIA students faces when they played bumfighting videos. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
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Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
wow, that's a bit surprising! I never even went to Toucan's - left that to the 18/19 year olds with fakes. Went to hobnobbins a couple of times. But both of those seemed to be institutions destined to continue.
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Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
***,
It is common for restaurants to care about OT for the cooks. However, if you advance in this carreer to become a head chef, you are in danger of working 70+ hours a week. Salaried cooking positions can overwork you, but if you're getting wages, you'll rarely get over 40 hours provided that your restaurant follows labor laws. My roommate out here in vegas had a job where he was paid $500 off the books per week, but worked about 60 hours per week. |
Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
Chimp,
I've worked with a half dozen CCA grads - all fine cooks and fine people. |
Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
Interesting post, thanks for making it. I'm currently in the culinary program at the Arts Institute of Washington, so it's interesting to see how the two programs stack up. Mostly, they don't.
You're exactly right about how hard some of these students work. Others are incredibly lazy. It's not unlike the staff of any restaurant. |
Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
STILL WAITING TO FIND OUT WHAT I MISSED OUT ON FOR AN EXTRA 20K SIR!
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Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
very interesting posts so far CSC
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Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
CSC, are you still planning on writing about year 2?
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Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
Awesome post.
What pizzeria did you work at in Atlanta? |
Re: My education at the Culinary Institute of America (Year One)
I used to enjoy watching the TV show they had but haven't seen it recently. Are they still filming these?
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