99 donked twice.
 

CO is 30/19/3.71. Dont have a good grasp on his flop play. BB is unknown.

Absolute Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (12.5SB, 4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (9.25BB, 3 players)
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (12.25BB, 3 players)
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>, Hero calls

Re: 99 donked twice.
 

i fold the turn. i might call-down if i was closing the action.

tough spot if it's HU but i think it's easier with somebody still to act.

bbbushu

Re: 99 donked twice.
 

[ QUOTE ]
i fold the turn. i might call-down if i was closing the action.

tough spot if it's HU but i think it's easier with somebody still to act.

bbbushu

[/ QUOTE ]


I'd rather raise the turn again than fold. However, the problem with raising the turn is that the villain is very aggressive and could 3-bet a good draw. HU I'd just call down.

Re: 99 donked twice.
 

I would fold flop... raise/fold turn. CO has a jack here a lot.

Re: 99 donked twice.
 

Folding the flop is too weak IMO. The pot is fairly big and the donk is a complete bluff, a semibluff, worse made hands and then also Jx. With the position Hero has an excellent chance of getting the pot HU. Pretty easy raise IMO.

The turn is a tough spot and I prolly fold it. UTG+1 called 2 cold on the flop and the repeat donk makes it more likely CO has the J. The pot is big though and raising to shut out UTG+1 and taking the free showdown is an option. I am just not sure that UTG+1 actually folds or that CO checks the river.

Re: 99 donked twice.
 

If it was HU, call down or raise turn. Here, fold turn.

Re: 99 donked twice.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Folding the flop is too weak IMO. The pot is fairly big and the donk is a complete bluff, a semibluff, worse made hands and then also Jx. With the position Hero has an excellent chance of getting the pot HU. Pretty easy raise IMO.

The turn is a tough spot and I prolly fold it. UTG+1 called 2 cold on the flop and the repeat donk makes it more likely CO has the J. The pot is big though and raising to shut out UTG+1 and taking the free showdown is an option. I am just not sure that UTG+1 actually folds or that CO checks the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with the first part. I don't reference SSHE very often because it's always mis-applied (in micro's anyway) but I would say folding to a very aggro player's flop donk on this flop with 13.5 small bets is a good example of "folding too much".

The turn is closer because it means villian has the J a lot but I'm not really sure why UTG+1's presence is influencing everyone's decision that much after merely check/coldcalling a somewhat coordinated flop.

Re: 99 donked twice.
 

[ QUOTE ]
The turn is closer because it means villian has the J a lot but I'm not really sure why UTG+1's presence is influencing everyone's decision that much after merely check/coldcalling a somewhat coordinated flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you call down? I was pretty much deciding between raise or fold and forgetting that a call may be good as well. Actually I have no idea what to do with this turn.

Re: 99 donked twice.
 

I don't really know either. Nothing is really terrible, but fold would still be 3rd place with me. I'd probably just close my eyes &amp; raise. I understand not wanting aggro guy to bluff 3bet (I no longer think only insane people do this since I've done it myself recently a few times) but it would take some serious balls here when hero has shown immense aggression on every street and it wouldn't make for a good play unless we had exactly 99/TT.
Mostly though I just disagree with a flop fold in this hand.

Re: 99 donked twice.
 

How about just calling the flop with the intention of raising a safe turn card? Then if CO 3-bets the turn I'd let it go. If CO just calls the turn raise it seems that this play is likely to allow us to showdown for free on the river. Forgive me if this line makes no sense at all - I haven't played any limit holdem in a long time.

Re: 99 donked twice.
 

You can't call just call on the flop to raise the turn because it makes it too cheap for utg+1 to come along. I vote for raise flop and fold turn... there is a very pressing need to protect your hand on this board with a weak jack, and it seems that's what CO is doing...

Re: 99 donked twice.
 

[ QUOTE ]
You can't call just call on the flop to raise the turn because it makes it too cheap for utg+1 to come along. I vote for raise flop and fold turn... there is a very pressing need to protect your hand on this board with a weak jack, and it seems that's what CO is doing...

[/ QUOTE ]
Alright, but the pot is already very large and it is doubtful any draws are folding the flop for two bets. Why not try to get them to fold the turn for two big bets? Even if they may still be getting odds to call on the turn it seems more likely that they could fold incorrectly on the big street. The advantage I see to this play is that it could get you a free showdown. Anyway, I'm asking opinions more than I am disagreeing with you.

Re: 99 donked twice.
 

How dare you disagree with me or uh... ask my opinion.. lol.

on the flop utg1 would be getting ~8 to 1 when faced with 2
on the turn utg1 would be getting ~5 to 1 when faced with 2

going with the read that CU indeed has a weak jack, if utg folds the gutshot QT or Q9, its a bad fold on the flop because his Q is live. If he folds it on the turn its a correct fold. If he has an oesd or a fd, theres no betting pattern that makes his coming along unprofitable. Id rather have utg1 make a bad fold on the flop than a good fold on the turn.

I tend to save these turn hand protection raises for 4 way pots.

edit: as far as the free sd, yeah, itd be nice... but I'm convinced you're up against a weak jack here.. so in my mind itd be a slightly expensive shot at a 2 outer on the river (plus the added value of closure so that you may grieve for your nines)

Re: 99 donked twice.
 

[ QUOTE ]
CO is 30/19/3.71.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm thinking you should fold somewhere, but OTOH CO has a high AF. How many hands do you have on him?

Re: 99 donked twice.
 

I like it!

Re: 99 donked twice.
 

I raise the turn. This donk is rarely a Jack. Villain raised preflop whic usually would mean QJ-AJ and these hands 3-bet the flop. I find it more likely that he is donking an 8, an underpair or a big draw. A monster (JJ, 88, A3) would want to c/r the field. The good thing about raising is that UG+1 will often call 2 cold when he has a flush or straight draw, so you get a good overlay when you are ahead.