Catholics vs. Hitler
 

The catoholic church would not exist today if it werent for its violent past. The crusades and witch hunts. In medival times the catholic church basically killed everyone who would not convert. So why is the catholic church so highly regarded now. why dont they have the same evil reputation that hitler does. basically hitler was trying to do the same thing. if he was sucessful maybe he would have created a religon that is as highly regarded as the catholic church. I do not condone in any way what hitler did.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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basically hitler was trying to do the same thing.

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Conversion was not an option in Auschwitz.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

Is the catholic church highly regarded? I always thought the general consesus was that the catholic church is kind of scary.

Indulgences, child molestating clergy, etc.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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basically hitler was trying to do the same thing.

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Conversion was not an option in Auschwitz.

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Nor during the Inquisition.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

im going to throw a really wild hypothesis.
Maybe its because catholics have also done good things.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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basically hitler was trying to do the same thing.

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Conversion was not an option in Auschwitz.

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Nor during the Inquisition.

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Come on, you have stretched this thing enough. The Inquisition was quite unlike Auschwitz, and Hitler's regime was far more monstrous than Savonarola's. It's not even close.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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basically hitler was trying to do the same thing.

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Conversion was not an option in Auschwitz.

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Nor during the Inquisition.

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Come on, you have stretched this thing enough. The Inquisition was quite unlike Auschwitz, and Hitler's regime was far more monstrous than Savonarola's. It's not even close.

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what the nazis did was humane compared to what people in the inquisition did. nazis gassed the jews. non catholics were tortured and than killed in public.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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basically hitler was trying to do the same thing.

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Conversion was not an option in Auschwitz.

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Nor during the Inquisition.

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Come on, you have stretched this thing enough. The Inquisition was quite unlike Auschwitz, and Hitler's regime was far more monstrous than Savonarola's. It's not even close.

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what the nazis did was humane compared to what people in the inquisition did. nazis gassed the jews. non catholics were tortured and than killed in public.

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Right, the nazis never tortured or killed anyone in public...

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

I hate this forum, the reason of why catholics arent at the same level as Hitler its obvisouly because catholics have also done good stuff, and somehow someway we have a debate about who was worse hitler or the church during the inquisition.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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I hate this forum, the reason of why catholics arent at the same level as Hitler its obvisouly because catholics have also done good stuff, and somehow someway we have a debate about who was worse hitler or the church during the inquisition.

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Ok I grant you the catholic church has done both good things and bad things.

Now what exactly was the catholic church's excuse for all the bad things?

P.S. Hitler was a catholic his whole life and his anti-semitism came from the church.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

The OP question is "they did the same bad thing, why dont they have the same reputation" my answer is " even thought they did the same bad thing, catholics have also done good things."

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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I hate this forum, the reason of why catholics arent at the same level as Hitler its obvisouly because catholics have also done good stuff, and somehow someway we have a debate about who was worse hitler or the church during the inquisition.

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Ok I grant you the catholic church has done both good things and bad things.

Now what exactly was the catholic church's excuse for all the bad things?

P.S. Hitler was a catholic his whole life and his anti-semitism came from the church.

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The stupidity and ignorance in this thread is astounding. Hitler was an apostate and murdered influential Catholics while assuming power (eg. Englebert Dolfuss, Dr. Erich Klausner).

Incidentally, this is what a pretty smart agnostic Jew had to say about the Church in Nazi Germany:

“[As a]lover of freedom, when the (Nazi) revolution came, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but no, the universities were immediately silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers, whose flaming editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks...Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler’s campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration for it because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual and moral freedom. I am forced to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly”

Albert Einstein, Time Magazine December 1940.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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The OP question is "they did the same bad thing, why dont they have the same reputation" my answer is " even thought they did the same bad thing, catholics have also done good things." [/quote




So if hitler started a charity after he rid the world of jews it would be alright. he would no longer be the most evil man in the world.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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So if hitler started a charity after he rid the world of jews it would be alright.

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no it wouldnt, I never posted that the inquisition was alright because the church did good stuff afterwards.

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he would no longer be the most evil man in the world.

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If the charity was as big as the catholic church of course he wouldnt be the most evil man in the world.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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So if hitler started a charity after he rid the world of jews it would be alright.

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no it wouldnt, I never posted that the inquisition was alright because the church did good stuff afterwards.

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he would no longer be the most evil man in the world.

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If the charity was as big as the catholic church of course he wouldnt be the most evil man in the world.

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So the lives of millions mean nothing as long as good eventually comes from it.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

The fact that I say that Hitler wouldnt be as bad if he had created a good charity does not imply that the lives of millions mean nothing as long as good eventually comes from it.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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The fact that I say that Hitler wouldnt be as bad if he had created a good charity does not imply that the lives of millions mean nothing as long as good eventually comes from it.

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So you have no ill will towards the church for killing thousands of innocent people. Your basically saying if someone brutally raped and killed your mom and than dedicated his whole life to doing good you would forgive him and put him on a pedastal for all to worship.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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So you have no ill will towards the church for killing thousands of innocent people.

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When did I say such thing?


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Your basically saying if someone brutally raped and killed your mom and than dedicated his whole life to doing good you would forgive him and put him on a pedastal for all to worship.

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This part of youre post is just weak.
First mistake you are playing the emotion card. You are comparing a situation in which an unknown was harmed and an unknown was helped to a situation in which my mom was harmed and an unknow was helped. Im sure you would have good feelings toward someone who brutally killed someone and then saved youre mothers life.
The other mistake in youre post is somehow assuming that not being as bad as hitler means that we have to put in on a pedestal for all of us to worship.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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So you have no ill will towards the church for killing thousands of innocent people.

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When did I say such thing?




you seem to be defending the church which leads me to believe this.


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Your basically saying if someone brutally raped and killed your mom and than dedicated his whole life to doing good you would forgive him and put him on a pedastal for all to worship.

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p


eople do worship and put the church on a pedestal. they did murder thousands of people didnt they




This part of youre post is just weak.
First mistake you are playing the emotion card. You are comparing a situation in which an unknown was harmed and an unknown was helped to a situation in which my mom was harmed and an unknow was helped. Im sure you would have good feelings toward someone who brutally killed someone and then saved youre mothers life.
The other mistake in youre post is somehow assuming that not being as bad as hitler means that we have to put in on a pedestal for all of us to worship.

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A life is a life i just used your mom to prove a point. A murder is a murder it shouldnt matter if you know the person or not. If your saying it only matters when emotions are in affect than you are a hypocrit. I would be thankful for a murderer saving someone i new but i wouldnt put them on a pedestal.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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you seem to be defending the church which leads me to believe this.

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Im not defending the church, Im just saying the church aint as bad as hitler. Bush isnt as bad as Hitler but that doesnt mean I think Bush is good or anything.

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A murder is a murder it shouldnt matter if you know the person or not

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Actually it should.
If Joe murders a random person I will be pissed at Joe for about 30 seconds, if Joe murders my sister Im going to hate him all my life.

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If your saying it only matters when emotions are in affect than you are a hypocrit

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How so? Plus Im saying it should matter less if its someone I dont know not that it shouldnt matter at all.

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I would be thankful for a murderer saving someone i new but i wouldnt put them on a pedestal.

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thankful = good feelings.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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you seem to be defending the church which leads me to believe this.

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Im not defending the church, Im just saying the church aint as bad as hitler. Bush isnt as bad as Hitler but that doesnt mean I think Bush is good or anything.

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A murder is a murder it shouldnt matter if you know the person or not

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Actually it should.
If Joe murders a random person I will be pissed at Joe for about 30 seconds, if Joe murders my sister Im going to hate him all my life.

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If your saying it only matters when emotions are in affect than you are a hypocrit

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How so? Plus Im saying it should matter less if its someone I dont know not that it shouldnt matter at all.

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I would be thankful for a murderer saving someone i new but i wouldnt put them on a pedestal.

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thankful = good feelings.

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The problem is that the church was never painted as the bad guy. It was just oops they interpreted the bible wrong hee heee .

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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The OP question is "they did the same bad thing, why dont they have the same reputation" my answer is " even thought they did the same bad thing, catholics have also done good things."

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Just becuase they did goog things doesnt make their crimes any better than what the nazis did. both brutally murdered and killed for their own ideals.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

Im sure if hitler succeeded in his plan the text books of today would paint a different picture of him. he would be the hero of the arian race and all the killings he did would be for the greater good.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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Im sure if hitler succeeded in his plan the text books of today would paint a different picture of him. he would be the hero of the arian race and all the killings he did would be for the greater good.

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I guess I missed the part where the textbooks of today pain the inquisition as being for the greater good. Listen man, this whole thread sounds like the whining of some 14 year old who is mad that his mom makes him go to church. Why do you think some of the very intelligent "religion haters" arent in here defending you? It's because this is stupid.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

Catholics vs Hitler...

Catholics are still a plague on this earth and Hitler isn't.

Holla!

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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Why do you think some of the very intelligent "religion haters" arent in here defending you?

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Too busy comparing religion and rape?

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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I hate this forum, the reason of why catholics arent at the same level as Hitler its obvisouly because catholics have also done good stuff, and somehow someway we have a debate about who was worse hitler or the church during the inquisition.

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Ok I grant you the catholic church has done both good things and bad things.

Now what exactly was the catholic church's excuse for all the bad things?

P.S. Hitler was a catholic his whole life and his anti-semitism came from the church.

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The stupidity and ignorance in this thread is astounding. Hitler was an apostate and murdered influential Catholics while assuming power (eg. Englebert Dolfuss, Dr. Erich Klausner).

Incidentally, this is what a pretty smart agnostic Jew had to say about the Church in Nazi Germany:

“[As a]lover of freedom, when the (Nazi) revolution came, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but no, the universities were immediately silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers, whose flaming editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks...Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler’s campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration for it because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual and moral freedom. I am forced to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly”

Albert Einstein, Time Magazine December 1940.

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Hitler was a catholic his whole life and his anti-semitism came from the church. There is overwhelming evidence for this. Nothing good can come from the coverup and denial by the church and its followers. Your response is the classic response of a person who refuses to come to terms with the extreme evil that is at the very core of religion, with the inquisition and the holocaust being just two of many examples.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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Hitler was a catholic his whole life and his anti-semitism came from the church. There is overwhelming evidence for this. Nothing good can come from the coverup and denial by the church and its followers. Your response is the classic response of a person who refuses to come to terms with the extreme evil that is at the very core of religion, with the inquisition and the holocaust being just two of many examples.

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First and foremost, evil is at the core of men, not christianity. Yes, the catholic church has a dark history. Do you want a cookie for figuring that out? So does America. Next, you do realize that some theories of the evolution of the human are based that races evolved seperate of each other and therefore some races are superior to others, right? Is this bigotry and racism, so does that mean that the evolution is evil?

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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The OP question is "they did the same bad thing, why dont they have the same reputation" my answer is " even thought they did the same bad thing, catholics have also done good things."

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Just becuase they did goog things doesnt make their crimes any better than what the nazis did. both brutally murdered and killed for their own ideals.

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we are now officially discussing in circles.

OK we have person A and person B.
Person A does an horrible thing.
Person B does and horrible thing but also does a good thing afterwards.
Person A is a bad person
Person B is also a bad person but not as bad as person A
Please tell me you got it.
Btw im conceding a lot of points just for the sake of the debate( im conceding that the church is a bad insitution, im comparing an insitution that have changed the people that run them to a person, im also ignoring that the insititutions made the harm hundreds of years ago)

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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The OP question is "they did the same bad thing, why dont they have the same reputation" my answer is " even thought they did the same bad thing, catholics have also done good things."

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Just becuase they did goog things doesnt make their crimes any better than what the nazis did. both brutally murdered and killed for their own ideals.

[/ QUOTE ]

we are now officially discussing in circles.

OK we have person A and person B.
Person A does an horrible thing.
Person B does and horrible thing but also does a good thing afterwards.
Person A is a bad person
Person B is also a bad person but not as bad as person A
Please tell me you got it.
Btw im conceding a lot of points just for the sake of the debate( im conceding that the church is a bad insitution, im comparing an insitution that have changed the people that run them to a person, im also ignoring that the insititutions made the harm hundreds of years ago)

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Well, yeah, but you're completely ignoring the possibility that the Nazis were better than the Catholic Church.

I look at it more like:
Both the church and and the Nazis killed Jews.
The church was complicit in genocide during the holocaust, but probably killed some Jews outside that period, too.
To the best of my knowledge Nazis didn't molest children.
Nazis are gone, but the Pope is still spouting [censored], and is arguably responsible for a great deal of AIDs deaths in Africa, generations of ignorance, misogynistic behavior, the spread of the genes of less intelligent catholics, and frankly, the latest pope is a bit of a prick.

Hitler, on the other hand, pulled America out of the great depression, gave us a sense of honor, advanced nuclear science and aerodynamics, and gave us the greatest rhetorical device of all time ("yeah, that's what the NAZIS would say!!").

Frankly, I don't see how it's even close.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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Hitler was a catholic his whole life and his anti-semitism came from the church. There is overwhelming evidence for this. Nothing good can come from the coverup and denial by the church and its followers.

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Hitler remained a nominal catholic, but his religious beliefs are a matter of controversy, as there is also overwhelming evidence that he despised much of Christianity. You are also misrepresenting the evidence with respect to the source of his anti-semitism. Read Daniel Gasman.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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Im sure if hitler succeeded in his plan the text books of today would paint a different picture of him. he would be the hero of the arian race and all the killings he did would be for the greater good.

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I guess I missed the part where the textbooks of today pain the inquisition as being for the greater good. Listen man, this whole thread sounds like the whining of some 14 year old who is mad that his mom makes him go to church. Why do you think some of the very intelligent "religion haters" arent in here defending you? It's because this is stupid.

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Text books dont demonize the inquistion. The people who were involved were exonerated because they were doing the will of God.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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The OP question is "they did the same bad thing, why dont they have the same reputation" my answer is " even thought they did the same bad thing, catholics have also done good things."

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Just becuase they did goog things doesnt make their crimes any better than what the nazis did. both brutally murdered and killed for their own ideals.

[/ QUOTE ]

we are now officially discussing in circles.

OK we have person A and person B.
Person A does an horrible thing.
Person B does and horrible thing but also does a good thing afterwards.
Person A is a bad person
Person B is also a bad person but not as bad as person A
Please tell me you got it.
Btw im conceding a lot of points just for the sake of the debate( im conceding that the church is a bad insitution, im comparing an insitution that have changed the people that run them to a person, im also ignoring that the insititutions made the harm hundreds of years ago)

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Okay how about if Charles Manson became a teacher. Would you feel good about him teaching your kids. How about if he became an ordained priest. What if he realized all of his crimes were a mistake and he wanted to dedicate his life to doing good. Would you feel comfortable with him preaching at your church.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

[ QUOTE ]
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The OP question is "they did the same bad thing, why dont they have the same reputation" my answer is " even thought they did the same bad thing, catholics have also done good things."

[/ QUOTE ]


Just becuase they did goog things doesnt make their crimes any better than what the nazis did. both brutally murdered and killed for their own ideals.

[/ QUOTE ]

we are now officially discussing in circles.

OK we have person A and person B.
Person A does an horrible thing.
Person B does and horrible thing but also does a good thing afterwards.
Person A is a bad person
Person B is also a bad person but not as bad as person A
Please tell me you got it.
Btw im conceding a lot of points just for the sake of the debate( im conceding that the church is a bad insitution, im comparing an insitution that have changed the people that run them to a person, im also ignoring that the insititutions made the harm hundreds of years ago)

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my point is how do you know A would not have done the same good deeds as B. A failed and commited suicide therefore you can only guess what would have happened. But know power can continue to be evil without an external force rising up to stop it.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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my point is how do you know A would not have done the same good deeds as B. A failed and commited suicide therefore you can only guess what would have happened. But know power can continue to be evil without an external force rising up to stop it.

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Holy [censored]. The church isn't a person, it's an institution. Many colleges segregated black and white, and then the policy changed because they realized it was racist. Does this mean that all colleges who had segregation are still racist. Not to mention the fact that not a single person who was involved in carrying out the evils of the inquisition are still participating in the church.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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my point is how do you know A would not have done the same good deeds as B. A failed and commited suicide therefore you can only guess what would have happened. But know power can continue to be evil without an external force rising up to stop it.

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Holy [censored]. The church isn't a person, it's an institution. Many colleges segregated black and white, and then the policy changed because they realized it was racist. Does this mean that all colleges who had segregation are still racist. Not to mention the fact that not a single person who was involved in carrying out the evils of the inquisition are still participating in the church.

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Just because colleges are not segregated anymore doesnt mean that some of them are not racially biased.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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basically hitler was trying to do the same thing.

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Conversion was not an option in Auschwitz.

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Nor during the Inquisition.

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Come on, you have stretched this thing enough. The Inquisition was quite unlike Auschwitz, and Hitler's regime was far more monstrous than Savonarola's. It's not even close.

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By numbers? Otherwise, I don't see how you can say this.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

[ QUOTE ]
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The OP question is "they did the same bad thing, why dont they have the same reputation" my answer is " even thought they did the same bad thing, catholics have also done good things."

[/ QUOTE ]


Just becuase they did goog things doesnt make their crimes any better than what the nazis did. both brutally murdered and killed for their own ideals.

[/ QUOTE ]

we are now officially discussing in circles.

OK we have person A and person B.
Person A does an horrible thing.
Person B does and horrible thing but also does a good thing afterwards.
Person A is a bad person
Person B is also a bad person but not as bad as person A
Please tell me you got it.
Btw im conceding a lot of points just for the sake of the debate( im conceding that the church is a bad insitution, im comparing an insitution that have changed the people that run them to a person, im also ignoring that the insititutions made the harm hundreds of years ago)

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Okay how about if Charles Manson became a teacher. Would you feel good about him teaching your kids. How about if he became an ordained priest. What if he realized all of his crimes were a mistake and he wanted to dedicate his life to doing good. Would you feel comfortable with him preaching at your church.

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Im an atheist.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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the Pope is still spouting [censored], and is arguably responsible for a great deal of AIDs deaths in Africa

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please explain how this is so.

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generations of ignorance

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I went to a jesuit high school. My two sister are studying on a catholic university( which happens to be the best in Chile along with the state university)

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misogynistic behavior

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You can also blame this on Aristoteles.... But anyway what have you done to stop the misognystic behaviour.

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the spread of the genes of less intelligent catholics

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this part of youre post is just scary.







ps: I may or may not have been leveled.

Re: Catholics vs. Hitler
 

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my point is how do you know A would not have done the same good deeds as B

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He didnt because he chose to commit suicide.