Interpretation and Religon
 

There are so many religons with each religon having numerous off shoots. Most of these arise from different interpretations of a core religon. For example there are many different christian religons. Some believe that there is a hell some dont. Some let gays worship some dont. How do you know if you are following the right interpretation or religon. There should only be one right religon according to most religons. How do you know you are following the right one.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

[ QUOTE ]
There are so many religons with each religon having numerous off shoots. Most of these arise from different interpretations of a core religon. For example there are many different christian religons. Some believe that there is a hell some dont. Some let gays worship some dont. How do you know if you are following the right interpretation or religon. There should only be one right religon according to most religons. How do you know you are following the right one.

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Usually your mom confirms that for you.
In any case, you're always following the right religion otherwise you'd switch, right?

luckyme

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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There are so many religons with each religon having numerous off shoots. Most of these arise from different interpretations of a core religon. For example there are many different christian religons. Some believe that there is a hell some dont. Some let gays worship some dont. How do you know if you are following the right interpretation or religon. There should only be one right religon according to most religons. How do you know you are following the right one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Usually your mom confirms that for you.
In any case, you're always following the right religion otherwise you'd switch, right?

luckyme

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So you think God would forgive you if you say it wasnt my fault my mommy picked my religon.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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So you think God would forgive you if you say it wasnt my fault my mommy picked my religon.

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Well, he's hardly going to punish you for Honoring your Mother ( especially if you're a xtrian). In almost any religion it's got to be worth theobrownie points. Even if your mom's wrong, at least you'll end up in the same place, and life at the current family gatherings will go smoother.

luckyme

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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There are so many religons with each religon having numerous off shoots. Most of these arise from different interpretations of a core religon. For example there are many different christian religons. Some believe that there is a hell some dont. Some let gays worship some dont. How do you know if you are following the right interpretation or religon. There should only be one right religon according to most religons. How do you know you are following the right one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Usually your mom confirms that for you.
In any case, you're always following the right religion otherwise you'd switch, right?

luckyme

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So you think God would forgive you if you say it wasnt my fault my mommy picked my religon.

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I'd say that's another clue that god doesn't exist.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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Most of these arise from different interpretations of a core religon. For example there are many different christian religons.

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What you are describing are denominations, not separate religions. Baptists don't believe Methodists are going to hell.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

then why did/do protestants and catholics fight? i guess there were other political reasons, but did the nature of each not have anything to do with it?

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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Most of these arise from different interpretations of a core religon. For example there are many different christian religons.

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What you are describing are denominations, not separate religions. Baptists don't believe Methodists are going to hell.

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So how do they feel about the fact that there doctrines dont match. So basically your saying that they feel everyone will go to heaven no matter what they believe.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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There are so many religons with each religon having numerous off shoots. Most of these arise from different interpretations of a core religon. For example there are many different christian religons. Some believe that there is a hell some dont. Some let gays worship some dont. How do you know if you are following the right interpretation or religon. There should only be one right religon according to most religons. How do you know you are following the right one.

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Generally, if you talk to a believer - the one they follow is right. It just is.

They often "feel it". The fact that others "feel it" yet have very different beliefs is irrelevent. They are right while the others who feel it are wrong.

The interpretation that the person you are talking to of their scripture is undoubtably also correct. If people read it differently for centuries before... they were wrong.

Please note- with this valuable way to determine who has it right you can now save your eternal soul.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

[ QUOTE ]
There are so many religons with each religon having numerous off shoots. Most of these arise from different interpretations of a core religon. For example there are many different christian religons. Some believe that there is a hell some dont. Some let gays worship some dont. How do you know if you are following the right interpretation or religon. There should only be one right religon according to most religons. How do you know you are following the right one.

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You don't.

I also don't know if most religions believe there is only one "right" religion. A lot of Christians believe that Christianity is the only right religion. I think all religions believe that their religion is the "most right" though.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

This reminds me of a sermen my brother wanted to play for me to show me the tolerance of Christians. he had taped it off of some religious cable network and had saved it just for my wife and I to watch. (He's a born again and he's constantly trying to save my wife and I)

It went something like this....
"What does it mean to be Christian towards other Faiths? If you have neighbors who are Muslim you should show them Christian hospitality. Encourage your children to be friendly with Jewish children in the neighborhood. Be CHRISTIAN. (this goes on in this fashion for another minute or so giving examples of how you are to be nice)

But if your child says she wants to learn about Islam, you cannot allow it. Your children cannot be indulged to try out other religions. (Here's where he gets very angry and his voice is booming) Because the Muslims are calling Jesus a LIAR. Because the Jews are calling Jesus a LIAR. The atheists are calling Jesus a LIAR."

I remember being confused about exactly what my brother thought I was supposed to get about this or why this would make me feel all warm and fuzzy about his beliefs.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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So basically your saying that they feel everyone will go to heaven no matter what they believe.


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I didn't say that.

The fundamental beliefs of most Christian denominations do match.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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Generally, if you talk to a believer - the one they follow is right. It just is.

They often "feel it". The fact that others "feel it" yet have very different beliefs is irrelevent. They are right while the others who feel it are wrong.

The interpretation that the person you are talking to of their scripture is undoubtably also correct. If people read it differently for centuries before... they were wrong.

Please note- with this valuable way to determine who has it right you can now save your eternal soul.

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None of what is written above is correct.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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Generally, if you talk to a believer - the one they follow is right. It just is.

They often "feel it". The fact that others "feel it" yet have very different beliefs is irrelevent. They are right while the others who feel it are wrong.

The interpretation that the person you are talking to of their scripture is undoubtably also correct. If people read it differently for centuries before... they were wrong.

Please note- with this valuable way to determine who has it right you can now save your eternal soul.

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None of what is written above is correct.

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I didn't realize you could discount the experience of the majority of the theists I've met. I can introduce you to my brother who will no doubt confirm that his church has it right and that all other religions are wrong.

I find it amusing that you claim I'm wrong. Are you suggesting that the Muslims are just as right as you are? Or how about the Jews? They claim Jesus wasn't the son of God. Are they right or wrong? Because I promise you they feel they experience their religion as strongly as you do.

Or is this just another arbitrary txag comment?

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

You aren't giving believers nearly enough credit for why they believe as they do. There is a difference between just "feeling" it, and actually experiencing God.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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You aren't giving believers nearly enough credit for why they believe as they do. There is a difference between just "feeling" it, and actually experiencing God.

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How can a believer distinguish between actually experiencing God and a delusion that they have experienced God?

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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You aren't giving believers nearly enough credit for why they believe as they do. There is a difference between just "feeling" it, and actually experiencing God.

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How can a believer distinguish between actually experiencing God and a delusion that they have experienced God?

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Gawwliie, bunny, only the people in the wrong religion have delusions. Oh, and some of Sam's children.

luckyme

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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You aren't giving believers nearly enough credit for why they believe as they do. There is a difference between just "feeling" it, and actually experiencing God.

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How can a believer distinguish between actually experiencing God and a delusion that they have experienced God?

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Gawwliie, bunny, only the people in the wrong religion have delusions. Oh, and some of Sam's children.

luckyme

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I dont know who Sam is. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

The reason for my question was genuine curiosity. I'm sure txag007 will accept that there are some deluded christians, though not deluded about their experience with God. I am curious how he would suggest someone assure themselves this belief is not the result of a mental aberration.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

I love that you actually experienced God and didn't misplace your brain afterwards, bunny. I wish you could explain to me why others seem to go all dogmatic when they have such experiences.

Okay txag, you claim that many other Christians (who claim to have experienced God) are wrong (and going to hell in some cases). Your justification for this is your claim that you have experienced God. You continually refuse to explain how you can be distinguished from them. In other words, you're acting out kurto's pattern to the letter.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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So how do they feel about the fact that there doctrines dont match. So basically your saying that they feel everyone will go to heaven no matter what they believe.

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Sorry everyone to go O/T for one moment, but hashi92 has posted quite a bit recently;

Hashi92,
Notwithstanding the value or quality of the message in your posts, please please check there/there and your/you're. If you were to say something good in future it may well be ignored because of this.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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I'm sure txag007 will accept that there are some deluded christians, though not deluded about their experience with God. I am curious how he would suggest someone assure themselves this belief is not the result of a mental aberration.


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John 10:

1"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber.
2"But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep.
3"To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
4"When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice.
5"A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."
6This figure of speech Jesus spoke to them, but they did not understand what those things were which He had been saying to them.
7So Jesus said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8"All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9"I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
10"The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
11"I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.


27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
30"I and the Father are one."


37"If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
38but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father."


41Many came to Him and were saying, "While John performed no sign, yet everything John said about this man was true."
42Many believed in Him there.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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Okay txag, you claim that many other Christians (who claim to have experienced God) are wrong (and going to hell in some cases).

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At which point did I say many other Christians are going to hell?

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

When you choose to believe, you'll know.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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You aren't giving believers nearly enough credit for why they believe as they do. There is a difference between just "feeling" it, and actually experiencing God.

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You don't get it, txag. We've been down this road before and you're as blind to this point as ever. You're playing semantics but the point is NO different.

First of all, there is NO difference between "feeling" and "experiencing" God. That's the 'semantics' part.

And what's been pointed out that you don't get is that people of ALL religions EXPERIENCE their God. They all believe they are unique. Obviously they have it right because they experience God. The Muslims Experience God. Christians Experience God. Jew Experience God. Wiccans experience their God. The Aztecs 'experienced' their God. They're ALL right because they're ALL experiencing their God. Obviously there are multiple Gods have experiences with different people.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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I'm sure txag007 will accept that there are some deluded christians, though not deluded about their experience with God. I am curious how he would suggest someone assure themselves this belief is not the result of a mental aberration.


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John 10:

1"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber.
2"But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep.
3"To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
4"When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice.
5"A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."
6This figure of speech Jesus spoke to them, but they did not understand what those things were which He had been saying to them.
7So Jesus said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8"All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9"I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
10"The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
11"I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.


27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
30"I and the Father are one."


37"If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
38but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father."


41Many came to Him and were saying, "While John performed no sign, yet everything John said about this man was true."
42Many believed in Him there.

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LOL [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] That clears it up. Clearly the Christians experience God and aren't deluded while people of other Faiths are.

That was so simple.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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there is NO difference between "feeling" and "experiencing" God.

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1. How do you know?
2. Experiencing God is not a feeling.

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The Muslims Experience God.

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Have you asked a Muslim about this?

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Wiccans experience their God.

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Have you asked a Wiccan about this?

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The Aztecs 'experienced' their God.

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Have any evidence of this?

Just asking, since I don't "get it".

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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1. How do you know?
2. Experiencing God is not a feeling.


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For one - I'm using the vocabulary that other theists have used. I'm fairly certain on this forum as well that theists have used this word.

Second- From dictionary.com: DEFINITIONS OF FEELING -
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6. to experience the effects of:


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or if you prefer:
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9. to have perception by touch or by any nerves of sensation other than those of sight, hearing, taste, and smell.

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Have you asked a Muslim about this?


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I've heard them attest to as much in documentaries. (I watch a lot of religious stuff because I find it interesting.) I've also read a lot of materials on religion which often include testimonies of people of different religions attesting to their religious experiences.

More interesting - You HONESTLY believe that only Christians feel they experience/have a connection to their perceived God? If not, are you just asking questions for no good reason?

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Have you asked a Wiccan about this?


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Yes. I was friendly with a Wiccan in school and listened (incredulously) many times as she shared stories of her experiences.

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Just asking, since I don't "get it".

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The fact that you have to ask if people of other faiths have similar experiences shows an amazing amount of shelter or willful ignorance to the subject matter. And I mean no offense by that.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

1. A feeling is an experience, but all experiences are not feelings.

2. I believe that a) all other religions are not entirely false, and b) Satan exists, and he is a deceiver.

So yes, I have no doubt that people of other religions "experience" their perceived gods, but its not the same. Of course, you won't realize how Christianity is different until you choose to believe.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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1. A feeling is an experience, but all experiences are not feelings.

2. I believe that a) all other religions are not entirely false, and b) Satan exists, and he is a deceiver.

So yes, I have no doubt that people of other religions "experience" their perceived gods, but its not the same. Of course, you won't realize how Christianity is different until you choose to believe.

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(1) I'm fairly certain they're pretty similar in the brain. Either way, I'm pretty sure its just semantics. No one is experiencing God in the sense that he's appearing in the flesh, performing a few miracles and then flying away on wings. Pretty much every theist who I've come across who shares their connection with their God is about the same as my friend in High School who had a crush on a gymnist. He just knew with all his heart and felt that their love was meant to be. was he objectively 'feeling' something? Of course. Was his interpretation of what he was experiencing accurate? Not even close.

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2. I believe that a) all other religions are not entirely false, and b) Satan exists, and he is a deceiver.


[/ QUOTE ] You believe it but the concrete proof that he exists? See #1 above. Of course if there was a Satan like figure... how would you know that the Muslims didn't have it right and that Satan wasn't fooling all the naive Christians like yourself? Perhaps all the Billions of people who don't share your faith are all foolish and you're the one too savvy for the Satan figure? That's what you would have to believe.

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So yes, I have no doubt that people of other religions "experience" their perceived gods, but its not the same.

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And you know its not the same.... because you WANT to believe its not the same. You are proving my point with your every post.

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Of course, you won't realize how Christianity is different until you choose to believe.

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You forget that I was a believer. If you have a rational mind you cannot choose to believe something for which there is no evidence. That would be borderline psychotic.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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how would you know that the Muslims didn't have it right and that Satan wasn't fooling all the naive Christians like yourself?

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Because I can compare the Bible to the Qu'ran.

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Perhaps all the Billions of people who don't share your faith are all foolish and you're the one too savvy for the Satan figure?

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No. Satan has even fooled me at times. He caused Adam and Eve to disbelieve God, and look at the relationship they shared with God! Nobody is immune to Satan's deception.

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for which there is no evidence

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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No. Satan has even fooled me at times. He caused Adam and Eve to disbelieve God, and look at the relationship they shared with God! Nobody is immune to Satan's deception.

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This is curious given, oh, every other post you've made in this thread. It's like you're trying to get the benefits of admitting the possibility of error without actually doing it.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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Because I can compare the Bible to the Qu'ran.


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Meaningless. What if God inspired the Qu'ran and the devil created the Bible to rope in naive Christians.

Once again... you are proving my point. Your believe your experiences, Faith and beliefs are any different and less rational then the beliefs of people of other faiths. Everytime you offer proof it is the EXACT same type and quality of proof that people of other Faiths use.

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No. Satan has even fooled me at times. He caused Adam and Eve to disbelieve God, and look at the relationship they shared with God! Nobody is immune to Satan's deception.

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Maybe he's cause you to believe the Bible?

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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Honestly... that is the perfect theist response when asked about evidence. Thank you.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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Everytime you offer proof it is the EXACT same type and quality of proof that people of other Faiths use.


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Did I offer proof? I don't remember doing that.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

You have offered proof. Things like "I've read the Bible" or "I've experienced God."

Obviously you haven't offered better proof then that. The entire point of my comments is that your proof and your arguments on this forum are of the same quality as those of people of other faiths.

As another person pointed out... your responses fit precisely into the pattern I posited in my first post to which you responded.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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No. Satan has even fooled me at times. He caused Adam and Eve to disbelieve God, and look at the relationship they shared with God! Nobody is immune to Satan's deception.

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This is curious given, oh, every other post you've made in this thread. It's like you're trying to get the benefits of admitting the possibility of error without actually doing it.

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He still hasn't explained how he knows that Satan didn't create the Bible and has been fooling him still.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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He still hasn't explained how he knows that Satan didn't create the Bible and has been fooling him still.

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I'm sorry. I didn't realize that was a serious question.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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You have offered proof. Things like "I've read the Bible" or "I've experienced God."

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That's not proof. It's part of my personal testimony, but it's certainly not proof. Do you think I was trying to persuade you of something?

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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You have offered proof. Things like "I've read the Bible" or "I've experienced God."

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That's not proof. It's part of my personal testimony, but it's certainly not proof. Do you think I was trying to persuade you of something?

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didnt you say your feeling was your proof. did your feelings disappear.

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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He still hasn't explained how he knows that Satan didn't create the Bible and has been fooling him still.

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I'm sorry. I didn't realize that was a serious question.

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You seemed to be arguing that Satan is fooling the people of other religions. (I assume that was a serious response?) Its completely reasonable to ask how you can be certain that the other people who experience THEIR God aren't truly experiencing God while you are being tricked by Satan.

The proof/evidence you will offer to make your case (if you do so) will liley be as substantive as I've listed previously. (see original thread to which you responded)

Re: Interpretation and Religon
 

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He still hasn't explained how he knows that Satan didn't create the Bible and has been fooling him still.

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I'm sorry. I didn't realize that was a serious question.

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And yet, having had this assumption corrected, you proceed not to answer it.