Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

I thought I'd up the content in this forum with an Ask me thread for all of you that are premed. Maybe it will catch on and other posters can also have some good threads. I am a current M1 at UMD. Fire away...

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

I've only looked at the requirements for my university's med school, so I would like to know how much the premed requirements vary from med school to med school.

Also, my school recommends shadowing people in medical fields as well as community service. How much of each of these did you do and how much would you recommend doing?

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've only looked at the requirements for my university's med school, so I would like to know how much the premed requirements vary from med school to med school.

Also, my school recommends shadowing people in medical fields as well as community service. How much of each of these did you do and how much would you recommend doing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Most requirements are the same at all schools:

a year of physics
a year of bio.
a year of chem.

all with lab.
2 semesters of english
a semester of math/mathematical science
certificate of graduation
mcat

Certain schools require extra courses (i.e. biochemistry, stats, advanced bio.) and others want you to be well-rounded (1/4 of your 120 credits in social sciences (usc)) Generally the more competitive the school, the more requirements.

Shadowing is interesting...when you actually know something. I shadowed a doc once or twice in college, both of which were in my senior year, I got close to nothing out of it. I was horribly bored, didn't find anything remotely interesting, and I was kinda tired of waiting around and wandering around with him not having a [censored] clue what was going on. Good shadowing experiences are directly proportional to the amount of material you know. Freshmen year I got nothing out of it, senior year I close to nothing out of it, last week I shadowed a doc where virtually every patient we saw that day I had learned about something related to their illness in my classes. I didnt even feel the time go by and was completely interested. I'd shadow a little bit just to write it down and say that you've done it, but I wouldn't go overboard. I think I did <15 hours of shadowing in all of undergrad.

Community service...this is a big one. I was not much of a community service person(I did a lot of research instead) but it is really really important that they see you do this. Try and pick 1 activity med related and 1 non-related, and just try to do several hours consistently each semester. If you volunteer at the hospital it looks better doing it 3 hours /week for 2 years than a semester full time (12 hours/week), it's also easier to stomach. My application was lacking in community service...I did 1 year in the Michigan ED (3hours /week) horribly boring, and I taught hockey to kids for 3 years (fun, easy, community service)...

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

How do AP credits and lab requirements work out? This is something that I should probably talk to an advisor about, but you might have some experience with (could also vary from school to school, I'd imagine).

I passed out of a semester of intro bio, and a semester of physics. Both classes had a lab section in my high school, but will med schools want me to retake the lab portion of these classes in a university setting?

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

I passed out of Intro. chem. the U wrote me a letter and it wasn't a problem, then again, I was a chem. major, so I had plenty of chemistry to fill in. I would check with your premed advisor.

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

Cool idea, I'm not pre-med but I'm a chem major and I've got a few questions.

I have to take a semester of biochemistry next year. However the last time I took bio was in high school. Am I [censored]?

What was your favorite chem class?

Is p-chem really has tough as I've heard? I'm pretty decent at math, and from what people say it sounds more like a math class than a chem one.

Did you take the standardized o-chem final?

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

why are premeds all so annoying, overachieving, and miserable?

are people like that drawn to premed, or does the horrific load of classes they have to take combined with the competitiveness of the process make them that way?

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

ed,

it's probably both. everyone knows what pre-meds are like and that it's hard work, so it filters out people whose personality is not like that. Then since it's a lot of work some people probably get ruined.

Also, the people who have the "pre-med" personality are also those most likely to make sure you know they're a premed. The cool premeds probably don't talk about it as much or so obnoxiously.

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

[ QUOTE ]
does the horrific load of classes they have to take combined with the competitiveness of the process make them that way?

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is the main reason, the pre-med kids I know work very hard because they so much pressure on them to get A's.

Another question I have, how much does GPA matter when med schools are reviewing applications? Does your MCAT score have more influence or is GPA the most important factor?

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

Were you playing poker before your medical school interview?

Did you mention poker in your application or bring it up in the interview?

I'm assuming it would be unwise to mention it, but if your hobbies are brought up, do you think mentioning poker in a med school interview would be very bad?

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have to take a semester of biochemistry next year. However the last time I took bio was in high school. Am I [censored]?

What was your favorite chem class?

Is p-chem really has tough as I've heard? I'm pretty decent at math, and from what people say it sounds more like a math class than a chem one.

Did you take the standardized o-chem final?

[/ QUOTE ]

Biochem shouldnt be a big deal, if it's taught through the chem. dept, it will be heavy chem, if its taught through bio dept. it will be more bio oriented, the biochem i took (2 semesters) was through the chem dept so it was fine, but I did have an extensive bio class beforehand, I would go through the text book, but most of it is pretty basic and easy, they are testing chemical principles and ideas to explain biochem when taught by chem professors...so you should be fine...

My favorite chem class was Orgo, it's how I got sucked into being a chem/biochem major...I wouldn't have been a chem major if I would have known that being one wasn't all like orgo was.

pchem is really really hard, unless you are very good at math, calc 2/3, i'm not, so i suffered. I had to take 3 semesters of it, it was basically a math class with problem sets but the problems were chem related, but it was all math, I died the last 2 semesters, the first semester was an intro. pchem class and kinda light, so it was easier...

We had 4 orgo exams each semester, 3 regular ones and cum. final.

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

will respond more later

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
does the horrific load of classes they have to take combined with the competitiveness of the process make them that way?

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is the main reason, the pre-med kids I know work very hard because they so much pressure on them to get A's.

Another question I have, how much does GPA matter when med schools are reviewing applications? Does your MCAT score have more influence or is GPA the most important factor?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, ed's question is really complicated, so I'm not going to type out my whole rational, it's safe to say that 90% of premeds/med students suck. Luckily I'm in that 10% that don't. Somewhere along the lines of college (freshmen year) I went from being a tightly wound anal retentative premed to someone that just stopped caring...I also was non-premed for a bit, I dont really know what caused the change, but when I got back into and even now I wasn't as gunner as I had been for grades...much happier now. I think I realized there were more important things to me than getting 100% on everything.

As for grades and MCAT it's best to do well in both (these 2 are the most important and are what initially gets you in the door for the most part) compared to really well in one and really awful in another. I'd say MCAT=GPA> MCAT>GPA >>>>>>>>>>>&gt ; GPA>MCAT.

While the MCAT is just a test, it tells medical schools a lot about how you handle pressure and workload, my MCAT was basically on par with my GPA, but I did have to explain a few lazy grades. Schools don't want to see you blow the MCAT out of the water but get Cs in class cause you are bored, likewise they don't want to see you get a 4.0 but a 25 on the MCAT, something is wrong with this picture. Shoot for 3.5+ and 30+, that being said, once you are in this range, the difference between a 3.5 and 3.8 is insignificant imo, but the difference between a 30 and 34 is SIGNIFICANT. Along those lines, don't get a 15 in bio and physics but then a 5 on verbal, that doesn't look good either...

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

[ QUOTE ]
Were you playing poker before your medical school interview?

Did you mention poker in your application or bring it up in the interview?

I'm assuming it would be unwise to mention it, but if your hobbies are brought up, do you think mentioning poker in a med school interview would be very bad?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I played poker before my med. interview, I basically took one class senior year of college and started playing poker seriously summer of junior year/post MCAT. Poker ensured that my success and road to medical school take a few turns before actually arriving at my destination. I didn't mention it the first time I applied and I was heavily obsessed with it in a bad kind of way. The 2nd itme I applied and interviewed I actually wrote about poker for my personal statement on AMCAS, but by the time interviews rolled around I was on my decline of poker fever. It was casually mentioned in interviews, but not from a I am DEGEN RICH BITCH!!!11!! perspective, more from a making decisions with incomplete information, mathematical/analytical thinking ability etc... I spun it well and downplayed the $ aspect. If you seem like a good kid/level headed and have other hobbies and you spin it well it will be fine. If you look like you haven't left a casino/your basement in 6 months and you are talking about flipping coins for $5k and not giving a [censored] it will be bad. This should be obvious.

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

I've always done well on standardized testing, but never before have I spent time to prepare for them.

What did you do to prep for the MCAT, and how well did you do? Is comparing the test to the SAT/ACT a fair comparision? (like, how would doing well on SAT/ACT correlate to doing well on MCAT)

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've always done well on standardized testing, but never before have I spent time to prepare for them.

What did you do to prep for the MCAT, and how well did you do? Is comparing the test to the SAT/ACT a fair comparision? (like, how would doing well on SAT/ACT correlate to doing well on MCAT)

[/ QUOTE ]

No. SAT is nothing like the MCAT. I enrolled in a MCAT class (princeton review) so pretty much did their study plan and then just put in a lot of hours, basically a month of 3-5 hours of work/day everyday but sunday, and then a month of non stop 12+ hour days. In hindsight I should have taken more practice exams. I think that is key. I got above a 30.

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

100% being the best student possible, how much do you rate your self now and how much do you think you can achieve if you were to stop browsing 2p2?

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

70% now, I largely cut back my viewing time on 2+2 until the diablo forum opened. Now I'm back up to spending probably an hour or so a day on...so if i stopped altogether probably raise that to 72%...I have other things in my life keeping me from being 100%...the prime one being desire to be 100%.

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

I would actually mention for anyone thinking about applying to medical school and mentioning poker in their personal statement or interview not to take this route. I actually included playing poker in my essay for medical school for this application cycle, and I have received feedback from admission committees that the subject made me an undesirable candidate. So far for this cycle I have not received an interview invite and I have a 3.5+ GPA and 30+ MCAT. While mentioning poker worked for AZK, I would still advise fellow poker players interested in med school not to include their poker experiences in their application.

I am curious AZK if you received several interviews or not when you applied? It is possible that I might have just applied to schools that were too conservative, but it seems like most admission committees have this type of mentality.

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

A,

you and fimbulwinter HU for med school grades.....who wins?

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

I'm applying to medical school right now.

When you interviewed at Maryland did you get your interview right away? I am currently in the "Holding for further review" category at UM and just want to know what the actual likelihood of receiving an interview is. Thanks.

Also I am out of state and applied pretty late in the cycle.

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

Mr. P - You are absolutely right, for most people doing poker would probalby be a bad idea, my personal statement was not entirely Poker, it mostly just served as an intro. to get the reader hooked. I wouldn't say I received several interviews, the first year I applied really late with late MCAT and got 4 interviews and 4 waitlists, I was interviewing in Jan/Feb when most people were interviewing in Sept/Oct, I probably applied to about 20 schools that year.

The 2nd year I applied much earlier and only about 16 schools, I got 4-5 interviews and 3 acceptances, with me canceling the other schools before they had a chance to reply. The 2nd time around was much smoother, my interviews went a lot better and I was more comfortable

mmb- Fim and it's not even close.

Lenny - I applied to maryland (in state) and they put me on hold waiting for my first semester grades from georgetown (I did a masters there) so that took some time, when I finally got my interview (again way late in cycle I think feb.) I was happy but I was already into 2 schools so the pressure of having to go somewhere was off, that being said, I really wanted to go to maryland, I interviewed and had the best interview I have ever had with one guy here who I think is kinda a big deal, it's really the only reason I think I got in, I mean I was a competitive applicant, but nothing really distinguished me from anyone else. This guy and I just clicked and the interview went really really well. I heard back in two weeks. Normally I'm told it takes a month or 2. They normally make a pretty good effort to interview people if they are competitive, and they don't fill their class early, I've always been told that UMD is behind in general compared to other schools in their admissions processes... so don't lose hope. If you get an interview let me know what day and I can come to your interview luncheon (they normally have M1s talk to interviewees). Best of luck.

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

AZK

Why did you go through a M.S program if you knew you were going to med school?

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

[ QUOTE ]
AZK

Why did you go through a M.S program if you knew you were going to med school?

[/ QUOTE ]

Short answer: Stupidity.
Long answer: I was worried that I wasn't qualified enough to get in, since I got waitlisted at all the schools from the year before, I needed to do something and I already had 3+ years of research experience, so when in doubt, more school. Of course when I got in in the middle of Oct. and was bound to the MS program I felt like a retard. It was ok though, I mostly just went in to pick up notes and take exams and played poker pretty much the entire time. My class nickname was "ghost". It didn't help that the people at georgetown suck.

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

AZK, are you in residency right now? If so, how is it? No free time at all? Average hours?

How is clerkship?

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

If you don't mind, would you elaborate a little more on your experience after your first application cycle? Specifically, would you have done anything differently between cycles? It seems like you were overqualified academically for these graduate/postbacc type programs. Did you hesitate in reapplying or were you determined to go to medical school the whole time? Are you now satisfied with your decision to go to medical school? How do you stay motivated in such a rigorous environment, or is that not an issue for you? Thanks.

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

I am not sure why anyone would ever want to go to med school. Being a doctor right now is like getting a punch in the face. I used to be pre med..and I know a lot of ppl who just went to med school because "it was the only thing I could do." If you desire to go to med school, you better come up for a good reason than "my parents told me to."

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

[ QUOTE ]

Being a doctor right now is like getting a punch in the face.


[/ QUOTE ]

You mind explaining this?

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

Yeah dude don't go to medical school unless you think you would enjoy being in the military.

Those old farts who are teaching you have lost touch with reality (or were never in touch with reality hence those who can't do teach) with the fact that medicine is a business.

Lots of people are paying through the nose for med school nowadays with insane tuition and taking out loans the size of a mortage only to have some jackass think he owns you for the simple fact he's been alive longer than you.

The world has changed and medicine hasn't kept up. Just now they are moving to standardized protocols and evidence based medicine (medicine based on facts and research). Which means that yeah even though that guy might be older than you for years and years he was practicing without any real clue or research to support what he was doing is right.

This coupled with the fact that after year 2 of med school job prospects become the realm of the circle jerking old boy s club where one person with a grudge agaisnt you can ruin your prospects at making any decent money with one bad evaluation.

Don't do it unless you like politics, ass kissing, boot camp, politics, and more politics. If thats the case you might as well go into politcs. If you like science and money do something else.

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

Sadly this is the truth with going to med school. There is so much crap involved with the medical field that it really is a pain in the ass to become a physician.

However, I know for myself I am willing to deal with the crap because I have attempted other lines of work, and being a physician is where my interests lie. So for those interested in attending med school, make sure you truly want to be a doctor. If you want to be a doctor just for the money, then you are much better off finding another line of work because you will most likely earn more money and work less hours.

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

What is the easiest med school to get into? I have been to law school and business school already.... might want to go for the trifecta...

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

[ QUOTE ]
What is the easiest med school to get into? I have been to law school and business school already.... might want to go for the trifecta...

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably in Bali.

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

Sorry for the delay, just had a huge ell phys exam... here come a bunch of answers....

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

[ QUOTE ]
AZK, are you in residency right now? If so, how is it? No free time at all? Average hours?

How is clerkship?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I am a first year in medical school, I have 3 years left after this one and then I start residency. Right now I have a decent amount of free time, but not enough free time to play poker (due to my personality) as I learned first semester. So without poker, and with a better control on my studies I have a lot of free time. Basically my schedule each day is 7am wake up, 8 - 12 class, 1 - 5 study (not everyday), then I have the rest of the night free and go to bed around midnight....

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't mind, would you elaborate a little more on your experience after your first application cycle? Specifically, would you have done anything differently between cycles? It seems like you were overqualified academically for these graduate/postbacc type programs. Did you hesitate in reapplying or were you determined to go to medical school the whole time? Are you now satisfied with your decision to go to medical school? How do you stay motivated in such a rigorous environment, or is that not an issue for you? Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

First cycle was sort of a mess. I decided on premed late, so I had to take the MCAT late, which delayed my entire application, which ultimately resulted in me not getting into medical school that year. It was a good thing in hindsight, because it was also at that point where poker for me was taking off, I was playing more poker than god and only cared about poker, so getting into med school and starting would have been awful, I would have crashed and burned as I was too obsessed with poker to let it go and wasn't mentally prepared for med school. Basically with the late MCAT instead of getting interviews rolling in sept/oct I was getting them in Jan/Feb, by then, a substantial of schools already had active waitlists forming, and being a fairly average applicant, I was [censored]. Between cycles I would have tried to travel more, maybe spend an extended period of time in another country, I wouldn't have done the SMP program, but I probably wouldn't be at UMD if I didn't and I'd rather be here than anywhere else, so it's tough to say. If you don't have to do anything to improve your application I highly recommend taking a year off anyway, just defer your acceptance and go do something crazy. You can still have fun in medical school and do crazyish things, but nothing like the pure freedom after college. It will also help put things in perspective as I know for me and most people I talk to, you have that brief depression stint after college, it's also nice to take a break since the next four years of your life are going to be more intense than any other point in your life. I was a pretty average applicant, 3.5 GPA, 31 applicant, if anything, i was slightly below average at certain schools, if you have a [censored] gpa, I'd go post bac route, if you have a low mcat, retake it, if you are taking a year off and looking to define yourself in some way you can do research but you have to want to do research, a lot of people I know that tried that hated it...I was overqualified for the postbacc program, but I was a bit burned out from all the research I had done in undergrad and I didn't want to do it for another year 9-5, the gtown program looked good bc the classes were med classes, I wasn't expecting it to be that difficult since it was a 50/50 split between med and grad. but it was actually pretty difficult, granted I was playing poker about 14 hours a day and sleeping the other 10, but I barely passed each class once I got into med school and had to really work for a C (I've never had to do that)... That was more of a poker issue than work issue, if I cared enough I could have really kicked it's ass, but I was totally apathetic towards the program/people/teachers...despite being my greatest poker year until my 4 month long tilt session it was the worst year of my life in many ways because of the transition, I had moved back home and was living with my parents, all my friends from school were in other cities, all my friends in the DC area worked 9-5 and I was sort of in a non-drinking phase of my life, so it was hard to party with them. I met no girls and nearly everyone in the program sucked...it was just awful...it's probably why I played so much poker and slept so much. Whatever. To be totally honest, I kept hoping in the first week that some med school was gonna call and get me off the waitlist, I'm not normally naive or an optimist but in the back of my head all of august I was thinking, whatever any day now they are going to calland then I can tell georgetown to go [censored] themselves. yeah never happened. So then I'm in this program hating it, another hoop to jump through and I am bored out of my mind. Then I get in to Tulane first in Oct. and they add a nice little clause like all schools "acceptance contingent upon completion of current grad. program." [censored]. So much for that idea. So yeah...rest of the year kinda went down hill from there...

I didn't hesitate at all in reapplying because despite the poker success I was fairly certain I didnt want to make a career out of it, I was just addicted to the money, the lifestyle was nice, but too lazy/boring/apathy inducing for me, I had thought about a few other job routes, namely being a professor/research, basically going to get a PhD in organic and doing that...but after a few bad lab explosions/experiments and a lot of time in the hood and seeing the lifestyle of grad students I realized I couldnt do this for 5 years and I needed more human contact, mentally the PhD would have been rewarding, but I'm an all or none person, I need the whole package or I'm not running at 100%...so to only have the mental side wouldn't have really worked.

I am now very satisfied with my decision to go to medical school, I have great friends, I have a great class, I'm engaged, I like the material, I like where I am... I'm basically running it now and I can't imagine doing anything else.

I stay motivated because I'm interested, it's postive feedback for me, if I'm challenged and curious I have no problem staying motivated and running it, if I get bogged down, bored, turned off then I crash and burn. I used to be a competitive anal retentative premed, but after freshmen year of college that more or less disappeared, when I realized I'd rather be doing other things with my time then going to the library every afternoon. I still occasionally get that gunner instinct but maybe once a month for a day, the rest of hte time I'm going to the library because I know I have to and I want to do well, I don't need 95s anymore, but I want to know and learn the material.

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am not sure why anyone would ever want to go to med school. Being a doctor right now is like getting a punch in the face. I used to be pre med..and I know a lot of ppl who just went to med school because "it was the only thing I could do." If you desire to go to med school, you better come up for a good reason than "my parents told me to."

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't an issue for me.

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

[ QUOTE ]
What is the easiest med school to get into? I have been to law school and business school already.... might want to go for the trifecta...

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally the easiest medical school to get into is your own in-state tuition. This concept does not apply to the state of California.

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

Currently a 2nd year finance major thinking about medical school. If I go this route I could make up the minimum bio/chem requirements in time to take the MCAT next year. Is it unfavorable to have a finance degree with minimum science requirements? Does this answer change depending on the test score?

Thanks

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

[ QUOTE ]
Currently a 2nd year finance major thinking about medical school. If I go this route I could make up the minimum bio/chem requirements in time to take the MCAT next year. Is it unfavorable to have a finance degree with minimum science requirements? Does this answer change depending on the test score?

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

One of my friends is a 4th med student, and he got a bachelors in business. I am considering med school, and I am an economics major.

It might not be standard, but its not a disadvantage as far as I know.

Re: Ask AZK about being Pre-med/Getting into Medical School
 

AZK,

Awesome and very insightful post. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

[ QUOTE ]
and nearly everyone in the program sucked...it was just awful.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the difference, you think, between your SMP class and your current class of 1st years? Aren't like 80% of those from your SMP class going to medical school? Is it a matter of perspective, from outside to inside medical school, or do you think you are lucky with your current class? Could it be the school itself?