Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

I was talking to a guy that says he plays $1/$2 NL and $2/$5 NL live, for a living. He has a gf that lives with him and no kids.

Now, I have played B&M about 10 to 15 times and left with more than 5 buys ins atleast 5 of those times. The most I was ever stuck was $300 and that was after black jack losses.

My sample size is obviously small and is only at $1/$2, $100 max NL, so do you think it is possible playing $2/$5 for a living if you only have to support yourself and one other person?

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

Yes, but you can own a Mercedes and work at McDonalds if your willing to put in the hours.
It's all relative.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

You can make $50/hour at 2-5. That's $8,000/month.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was talking to a guy that says he plays $1/$2 NL and $2/$5 NL live, for a living. He has a gf that lives with him and no kids.

Now, I have played B&M about 10 to 15 times and left with more than 5 buys ins atleast 5 of those times. The most I was ever stuck was $300 and that was after black jack losses.

My sample size is obviously small and is only at $1/$2, $100 max NL, so do you think it is possible playing $2/$5 for a living if you only have to support yourself and one other person?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's absolutely possible.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

Based on other reliable posters in this forum, its seems very possible based on current game conditions.

However, and this is a big however, I don't know of too many people that enjoy doing this at this level for a sustained period of time.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
However, and this is a big however, I don't know of too many people that enjoy doing this at this level for a sustained period of time.

[/ QUOTE ]

why do you think that is the case? (BTW, i agree).... i think NL is a bit too much stress... limit seems more mechanical which means the decisions aren't stressful but the monotony of it could be stressful.... i'm sure playing huge hours in the best casinos it could be easy to develop a drinking problem.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

This is really easy if his girlfriend has a job that covers the monthly nut and stakes him when he busts.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
why do you think that is the case? (BTW, i agree)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it is because the people that are able to do this become bored with it and realize they could do a lot more if they weren't wasting their life away in a casino.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think it is because the people that are able to do this become bored with it and realize they could do a lot more if they weren't wasting their life away in a casino.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree.... and sometimes there are some pretty unpleasant types at the tables and in casino... OTOH, people will often take a pretty pay cut to have work freedom and no boss or corporate politics etc. .. so it's a trade-off.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

People survive on minimum wage and other low paying jobs. I think you could make a living playing 3/6 to 5/10 limit if you're willing to put in the hours. I think it would be a horrible job but possible. Maybe fun for a year of your life after school, but after that...

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
People survive on minimum wage and other low paying jobs. I think you could make a living playing 3/6 to 5/10 limit if you're willing to put in the hours. I think it would be a horrible job but possible. Maybe fun for a year of your life after school, but after that...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, who would want a job where you sit on your ass all day, indoors, guzzle free beer all day, work flexible hours, watch tv if you want, get a free lunch included, have no boss to report to, have the ability to move to another workplace if you don't like your "co-workers", and can never be fired?

Sounds like pure hell.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, who would want a job where you sit on your ass all day, indoors, guzzle free beer all day, work flexible hours, watch tv if you want, get a free lunch included, have no boss to report to, have the ability to move to another workplace if you don't like your "co-workers", and can never be fired?

Sounds like pure hell.

[/ QUOTE ]

i tend to agree... just a matter of the monotony and how much $$$ you can actually make.... and before you pounce on me, i'm on your side, i mostly agree.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

Have we talked? I'm in this position right now and do well. The only problem I have is getting in enough hours. I play about 20-25 hours/week live and it's hard to get anywhere near 40 hours, but I've resolved to play at least 35 hours a week. I'm a winning player, but if I keep it up I'll be broke in a few months since I often don't play enough. I used to play $2-5 daily for about a year, but $1-2 is just so easy and it's relaxing. Unforutnately sometimes it's too relaxing and I slip into bad habits. About a year ago my average hourly rate was only a little higher at $2-5, but I won much more frequently at $1-2 so I decided to play more $1-2. It's a lot easier and I don't have to concentrate as much.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
People survive on minimum wage and other low paying jobs. I think you could make a living playing 3/6 to 5/10 limit if you're willing to put in the hours. I think it would be a horrible job but possible. Maybe fun for a year of your life after school, but after that...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, who would want a job where you sit on your ass all day, indoors, guzzle free beer all day, work flexible hours, watch tv if you want, get a free lunch included, have no boss to report to, have the ability to move to another workplace if you don't like your "co-workers", and can never be fired?

Sounds like pure hell.

[/ QUOTE ]

How long have you been playing poker? If I had to support myself on live poker and was playing 5-10 limit I'd go nuts, you're better off being a waiter or something. Seriously, it would be so stressful.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
People survive on minimum wage and other low paying jobs. I think you could make a living playing 3/6 to 5/10 limit if you're willing to put in the hours. I think it would be a horrible job but possible. Maybe fun for a year of your life after school, but after that...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, who would want a job where you sit on your ass all day, indoors, guzzle free beer all day, work flexible hours, watch tv if you want, get a free lunch included, have no boss to report to, have the ability to move to another workplace if you don't like your "co-workers", and can never be fired?

Sounds like pure hell.

[/ QUOTE ]

How long have you been playing poker? If I had to support myself on live poker and was playing 5-10 limit I'd go nuts, you're better off being a waiter or something. Seriously, it would be so stressful.

[/ QUOTE ]

None of the poker I've played is anywhere near as stressful as a real job. I'm not talking about brainless waiter jobs, but jobs you make a living from.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

honestly, i think it's all relative. i've played many 1/2NL and 2/5NL "pros" and most of them were between the ages of 21 and 26, single, lived (virtually) rent free. they're mostly recent college graduates or dropouts, trying to build a roll while they live at home or in a low rent area (like Absecon or Pleasantville).

i tend to believe that the only way to really do well would be to average at least $25-$30 an hour if you're only playing 30 hours a week. that's the only feasible way to build a roll to play higher in the future. i couldn't see someone support more than just himself without making at least $75k a year

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

[ QUOTE ]

None of the poker I've played is anywhere near as stressful as a real job. I'm not talking about brainless waiter jobs, but jobs you make a living from.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably because you play for fun and your rent/mortgage/groceries dont depend on your results.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

i used to live in a cheap room above the chelsea pub in AC NJ, for $100 a week, and i was winning about $1000 a month playing $1-3 and $1-5 stud in the trop and at ballys. i could play 10 hrs or so a day 7 days a week, no girlfriend, living alone, and i averaged $33-40 a day which is $1000-1200 a month. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A WONDERFUL WAY TO SAVE UP A $5000-10000 BANKROLL SO I COULD GO TO CALIFORNIA AND PLAY $20-40 HILO STUD AT THE BIKE EVERYDAY AND MAKE $1000-1500 A WEEK INSTEAD OF A MONTH, except for one little problem. id waste all my money at BJ, video poker, and looking for a girlfriend. sometimes id get so low, id be holding up a sign panhandling, (back when that still paid $50-100 a day instead of the $10 a day it pays now). and sometimes i was without a place to sleep and just kept a sleeping bag and slept during the day to avoid being assaulted while i slept. but hell id have never gave up my freedom for anything. cuase i always knew as soon as i got a bankroll id recover. i had a 9100 bankroll once but i [censored] it up. and currently im trying to get all my money outta the sites except for like $100 in stars and $100 on epasseporte, and i wish i could hurry up and untie it. ive only got $490 in the bank, even though my total roll is still close to $1300, and it pisses me off the way the govt is [censored] with me when im so dependent on this money to survive. guess im gonna have to move outta my moms in central ks where im living for $50 a week and move back to AC NJ so i can play live, unless i go to FL since its winter. FL has lots of good $1-2 hilo omaha games in the tampa FT lauderdale area. 24 hours too at the indian casinos. and its WARM THERE.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

Seven,

"i'd be holding up a sign panhandling, (back when that still paid $50-100 a day instead of the $10 a day it pays now).

What?

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

You inability to punctuate, spell, refrain from using caps lock, refrain from using paragrpah structure, and tell a good story is legendary.

Also I would be willing to bet that most if not all of that is made up.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

10 hours a day, 7 days a week, to make $1k in a month - isn't that well below minimum wage?

I hate "workin for the man" as much as the next person, but when you can earn twice as much making coffee at Starbucks it is hard to see why you are even considering trying to live as a "poker pro."

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
i used to live in a cheap room above the chelsea pub in AC NJ, for $100 a week, and i was winning about $1000 a month playing $1-3 and $1-5 stud in the trop and at ballys. i could play 10 hrs or so a day 7 days a week, no girlfriend, living alone, and i averaged $33-40 a day which is $1000-1200 a month. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A WONDERFUL WAY TO SAVE UP A $5000-10000 BANKROLL SO I COULD GO TO CALIFORNIA AND PLAY $20-40 HILO STUD AT THE BIKE EVERYDAY AND MAKE $1000-1500 A WEEK INSTEAD OF A MONTH, except for one little problem. id waste all my money at BJ, video poker, and looking for a girlfriend. sometimes id get so low, id be holding up a sign panhandling, (back when that still paid $50-100 a day instead of the $10 a day it pays now). and sometimes i was without a place to sleep and just kept a sleeping bag and slept during the day to avoid being assaulted while i slept. but hell id have never gave up my freedom for anything. cuase i always knew as soon as i got a bankroll id recover. i had a 9100 bankroll once but i [censored] it up. and currently im trying to get all my money outta the sites except for like $100 in stars and $100 on epasseporte, and i wish i could hurry up and untie it. ive only got $490 in the bank, even though my total roll is still close to $1300, and it pisses me off the way the govt is [censored] with me when im so dependent on this money to survive. guess im gonna have to move outta my moms in central ks where im living for $50 a week and move back to AC NJ so i can play live, unless i go to FL since its winter. FL has lots of good $1-2 hilo omaha games in the tampa FT lauderdale area. 24 hours too at the indian casinos. and its WARM THERE.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd recommend FL.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
i used to live in a cheap room above the chelsea pub in AC NJ, for $100 a week, and i was winning about $1000 a month playing $1-3 and $1-5 stud in the trop and at ballys. i could play 10 hrs or so a day 7 days a week, no girlfriend, living alone, and i averaged $33-40 a day which is $1000-1200 a month. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A WONDERFUL WAY TO SAVE UP A $5000-10000 BANKROLL SO I COULD GO TO CALIFORNIA AND PLAY $20-40 HILO STUD AT THE BIKE EVERYDAY AND MAKE $1000-1500 A WEEK INSTEAD OF A MONTH, except for one little problem. id waste all my money at BJ, video poker, and looking for a girlfriend. sometimes id get so low, id be holding up a sign panhandling, (back when that still paid $50-100 a day instead of the $10 a day it pays now). and sometimes i was without a place to sleep and just kept a sleeping bag and slept during the day to avoid being assaulted while i slept. but hell id have never gave up my freedom for anything. cuase i always knew as soon as i got a bankroll id recover. i had a 9100 bankroll once but i [censored] it up. and currently im trying to get all my money outta the sites except for like $100 in stars and $100 on epasseporte, and i wish i could hurry up and untie it. ive only got $490 in the bank, even though my total roll is still close to $1300, and it pisses me off the way the govt is [censored] with me when im so dependent on this money to survive. guess im gonna have to move outta my moms in central ks where im living for $50 a week and move back to AC NJ so i can play live, unless i go to FL since its winter. FL has lots of good $1-2 hilo omaha games in the tampa FT lauderdale area. 24 hours too at the indian casinos. and its WARM THERE.

[/ QUOTE ]

$40 a day? Nice. I bet you were living a de-luxurious lifestyle as a dollarmenuaire. Must have been sweet.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
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None of the poker I've played is anywhere near as stressful as a real job. I'm not talking about brainless waiter jobs, but jobs you make a living from.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably because you play for fun and your rent/mortgage/groceries dont depend on your results.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but they depend on my job.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
i used to live in a cheap room above the chelsea pub in AC NJ, for $100 a week, and i was winning about $1000 a month playing $1-3 and $1-5 stud in the trop and at ballys.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know the area around the Chelsea Pub and the games in question, and I have no doubt this story is possible. Those games didn't require good punctuation for the kind of earn OP is talking about. All kinds of characters.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
You inability to punctuate, spell, refrain from using caps lock, refrain from using paragrpah structure, and tell a good story is legendary.



[/ QUOTE ]

Glass houses, buddy.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

very possible. i have a friend who plays 2/3 $100 and 3/5$ 200 NL for a living, and not even full time. He pays his tuition + a little of that from loans, rent, living expenses, food, etc. And he doesnt even play "full time." he comes down from sb and plays at commerce for about a week straight once a month. he logs 80-100+ hours in that week though, and usually makes around 2-3k. whether this is realistically sustainable or not long term, hes been doing it for almost a year now. the fact is, especially in LA, $100 or $200 bucks is nothing, people pay a million $ for a two bedroom in a nice area, others spend even more on their car then rent, association fees on a nice condo are 1000$+, and to lose a $100 or 200 just aint nothin compared to the cost of living, hence the extremely profitable games that result. now could u do this off some tight ass games in a small town somewhere with a bunch of regulars? i dont think so, but maybe if you like cup o noodles a lot, dont have a car payment, and dont mind living in a [censored] hole

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

Moving to Florida to make a living playing 1/2 Omaha 8 is one of the more laughable ideas I've ever read on this forum.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

You think?

:lol:

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
Moving to Florida to make a living playing 1/2 Omaha 8 is one of the more laughable ideas I've ever read on this forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous. One would think vegas 1/2NL and moving up the ladder would be FAR more attractive.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

I played with Perry Shenkman (not sure that's the correct spelling) about 18 months ago at the MGM. I think it was 2/5 NL, but might have been 1/2. When someone asked him what he did for a living, he replied "This. I play poker all day." He seemed to imply he played at the level we were currently playing. He also seemed serious. He also seemed to know exactly how to act in a tourist-filled game.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

this is an excellent thread....

but curious what the lifestyle is of a vegas 2/5 NL pro? or what's the next level up after that??

i assume you are then getting into a reasonable living if you are single and fairly easy to please

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
i couldn't see someone support more than just himself without making at least $75k a year

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? You do understand that the average household income in the US is MUCH lower than this, right?

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

There are quite a few pros (well known and otherwise) that play 2/5 regularly. Off the top of my head, Ron Rose and Karina Jett both call 2/5 with 1K max their home. Both are fairly well known pros.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
I played with Perry Shenkman (not sure that's the correct spelling) about 18 months ago at the MGM. I think it was 2/5 NL, but might have been 1/2. When someone asked him what he did for a living, he replied "This. I play poker all day." He seemed to imply he played at the level we were currently playing. He also seemed serious. He also seemed to know exactly how to act in a tourist-filled game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know this player but one thing I have observed is that about 95% of the people I know who claim they play poker for a living, actually mean that the only thing they do is play poker. In fact they could not sustain their lifestyle on what they make playing poker. I'm saying that they are not winning money. I'm saying that most of their lifestyle is paid for by other resources whether it is a pension, investments, a working spouse, large savings, or some other source. If they were reduced to living on their poker winnings alone they might survive but they couldn't afford the lifestyle they live.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
but curious what the lifestyle is of a vegas 2/5 NL pro?

[/ QUOTE ]

1) Play poker until 4am
2) sleep until 12:30pm
3) don't think about exercising
4) find same hoodie & cargo pants that you've worn previous 4 days in a row (they really don't need washing yet)
5) stop by McDonalds/BK/Wendy's on the way to casino, or if you had a good couple days, In n Out Burger to eat your only meal of the day
6) buy pack of cigs
7) go to play poker until wee hours
8) rinse, repeat

Notice how no mention of playing rent or planning for future. Very overrated.

This is not a serious post [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img], but unless you move up in stakes playing at this level other than for fun can go anywhere long term.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

I was a red chip pro for almost a year and made a decent living considering I was doing nothing else. I made more than I made at my entry level corporate job but my rent & was monthly nut was only 1k a month, including living in a nice house, a brand new car payment+expensive vegas insurance, food, gas, etc...

I was able to make my nut plus a few thousand more and it was very lucrative during the world series.

feel free to ask me any questions but it can be done if you're disciplined with money (no pit games EVER), track every session so you can take out the proper amount quarterly for taxes, scout games, don't take too many shots, etc...

I'll be honest though, it is boring and miserable or else I'd still be doing it. I got burned out pretty quickly and there were a few months after I left vegas where I did not play a single hand of poker and even went to a few GA meetings to evaluate my situation/lifestyle.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

This type of thread pops up every few months and I have never, ever, seen a post from someone who has actually made a living solely from red chip games for a long period of time (~4-5 years). It's obviously theoreticaly possible but anyone capable of it is going to be smart enough realize it's not a very good long term idea.

People playing low limits to supplement retirement or other fixed income makes a lot more sense.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
This type of thread pops up every few months and I have never, ever, seen a post from someone who has actually made a living solely from red chip games for a long period of time (~4-5 years). It's obviously theoreticaly possible but anyone capable of it is going to be smart enough realize it's not a very good long term idea.

People playing low limits to supplement retirement or other fixed income makes a lot more sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems likely that someone who plays 2/5 for a year either flames out and moves on to a normal job, or has a proficiency for poker and moves up the ladder. If you're good enough to beat 2/5 for $40/hour, then you are probably good enough to beat 5/10 for $50+ so you move up.

Re: Low stake \"pros\" ???
 

I'm sure red chip pros realize it isn't a smart idea for the long run, thats why they eventually move up.