Dinner With A Congressman
 

I am having dinner with a 6 term Republican Congressman next week. A good friend married a his daughter, blah blah blah.
This is not a fundraiser type thing, rather dinner at my friend's house with about 6-8 people.

I have known the Congressman for about 5 years and have a fairly casual relationship, as he and I typically get involved is some type of political discussion after a few beers.

He is supports the UIGA and has in the past, compared gambling sites with drug dealers (yes I live in the south).
However, he is a reasonable man and I'm almost certain he has probably never discussed the situation with someone who derives a large portion of his income from online poker.

I would love to hear some well thought out points I should make.

Thanks,
Jb

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

Perhaps ask him if you can borrow a couple of bucks until you find a new line of work.

TSP

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

Not bad

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

I think you should start with the carve out provisions for horse racing, state lotteries, & fantasy sports and go from there. Then get into the taxation side of things. And about how many Republicans deserted the GOP last November specifically over this. You know the issues.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

"nanny state". Regardless of your dinner mates personal view of poker, we enjoy playing and are harming no one.

Further where the government says is "ok" to play where and when, does not work for all of us.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

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"nanny state". Regardless of your dinner mates personal view of poker, we enjoy playing and are harming no one.

Further where the government says is "ok" to play where and when, does not work for all of us.

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amen.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

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"nanny state". Regardless of your dinner mates personal view of poker, we enjoy playing and are harming no one.

Further where the government says is "ok" to play where and when, does not work for all of us.

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I think the "harming no one" argument will not hold water. Here is a quote from some hearings he chaired on the matter.

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I appreciate your testimony. Mr. Goodlatte mentioned, and I think others have mentioned, that Mrs. Kelly held some extensive hearings on this earlier this month. If you read that testimony, I think, if for no other reason, you see the social and the financial hazards that young people have when they are exposed to internet gambling. They are computer-sophisticated. They normally have access to a credit card. They become addicted at a young age to this form of gambling. And if for no other reason, I think we need to address it. And it is a tremendously growing problem with our young people who become addicted to gambling at such an early age.

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Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

But it's OK if they become addicted to cigarettes and alcohol, right senator? It's OK if they max out those credit cards on clothes and furniture, right senator? Do these guys actually believe anything they are saying?

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

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"nanny state". Regardless of your dinner mates personal view of poker, we enjoy playing and are harming no one.

Further where the government says is "ok" to play where and when, does not work for all of us.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the "harming no one" argument will not hold water. Here is a quote from some hearings he chaired on the matter.

[ QUOTE ]

I appreciate your testimony. Mr. Goodlatte mentioned, and I think others have mentioned, that Mrs. Kelly held some extensive hearings on this earlier this month. If you read that testimony, I think, if for no other reason, you see the social and the financial hazards that young people have when they are exposed to internet gambling. They are computer-sophisticated. They normally have access to a credit card. They become addicted at a young age to this form of gambling. And if for no other reason, I think we need to address it. And it is a tremendously growing problem with our young people who become addicted to gambling at such an early age.

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Of course online poker harms some people. Just like alcohol, lottery tickets, casino gambling, shopping, credit cards, etc. However, all of those things are perfectly legal. It's about personal choice. Adults should be able to choose whether to gamble online. Some will not be able to handle it, but that doesn't mean they should take it away from the many people who can handle it.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

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But it's OK if they become addicted to cigarettes and alcohol, right senator? It's OK if they max out those credit cards on clothes and furniture, right senator? Do these guys actually believe anything they are saying?

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Oops. You beat me to it.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

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"nanny state". Regardless of your dinner mates personal view of poker, we enjoy playing and are harming no one.

Further where the government says is "ok" to play where and when, does not work for all of us.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the "harming no one" argument will not hold water. Here is a quote from some hearings he chaired on the matter.

[ QUOTE ]

I appreciate your testimony. Mr. Goodlatte mentioned, and I think others have mentioned, that Mrs. Kelly held some extensive hearings on this earlier this month. If you read that testimony, I think, if for no other reason, you see the social and the financial hazards that young people have when they are exposed to internet gambling. They are computer-sophisticated. They normally have access to a credit card. They become addicted at a young age to this form of gambling. And if for no other reason, I think we need to address it. And it is a tremendously growing problem with our young people who become addicted to gambling at such an early age.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course online poker harms some people. Just like alcohol, lottery tickets, casino gambling, shopping, credit cards, etc. However, all of those things are perfectly legal. It's about personal choice. Adults should be able to choose whether to gamble online. Some will not be able to handle it, but that doesn't mean they should take it away from the many people who can handle it.

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This doesn't hold water, in fact it doesn't even really address what the Congressman's main problem in the above quote. Do you see why?

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

I still think it is comparable to alcohol. Many, if not most, college students start drinking alcohol before it is legal to do so. Many of them develop alcohol problems, but the majority learn how to control themselves.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

Could it be that the senator is one of these "back in my day we didn't have fancy computers" types of people? Because that would certainly cause him to dislike on-line gaming. Or anything else on-line for that matter. But what if he's right? What if progress and technology are bad for us? WFE

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

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I still think it is comparable to alcohol. Many, if not most, college students start drinking alcohol before it is legal to do so. Many of them develop alcohol problems, but the majority learn how to control themselves.

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I think that you have a valid point. However there are safeguards in place that attempt to restict underage drinking.
I think that might be a point that I could make, if the reasoning here is actually concern for the children, then why not take steps to regulate it and protect them.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am having dinner with a 6 term Republican Congressman next week. A good friend married a his daughter, blah blah blah.
This is not a fundraiser type thing, rather dinner at my friend's house with about 6-8 people.

I have known the Congressman for about 5 years and have a fairly casual relationship, as he and I typically get involved is some type of political discussion after a few beers.

He is supports the UIGA and has in the past, compared gambling sites with drug dealers (yes I live in the south).
However, he is a reasonable man and I'm almost certain he has probably never discussed the situation with someone who derives a large portion of his income from online poker.

I would love to hear some well thought out points I should make.

Thanks,
Jb

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Poker is no different, no more dangerous to ones own standard of living, than say a part time day trader doing it over the net. Day trading on the net provides the exact same level of exhiliration for an action junkie and one can just as easily lose money as earn it. But trading stocks is a national past time. Your average day trader knows no more about the stocks he's trading (probably less in fact) than your average online poker player knows about how to play a gutshot on the turn.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

Where is the evidence that this is a serious problem among young kids? I haven't seen any facts regarding poker's affect on US citizens.

The only way to make any progress is to address his perception of the online poker world.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am having dinner with a 6 term Republican Congressman next week. A good friend married a his daughter, blah blah blah.
This is not a fundraiser type thing, rather dinner at my friend's house with about 6-8 people.

I have known the Congressman for about 5 years and have a fairly casual relationship, as he and I typically get involved is some type of political discussion after a few beers.

He is supports the UIGA and has in the past, compared gambling sites with drug dealers (yes I live in the south).
However, he is a reasonable man and I'm almost certain he has probably never discussed the situation with someone who derives a large portion of his income from online poker.

I would love to hear some well thought out points I should make.

Thanks,
Jb

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here's the thing:

you need to defend poker from the claim that is corrupting america's youth and that it funds terrorism.

there is a clear distinction you can make between poker and prostitution/drug dealing. poker implicit in the game, has no corrupting attributes. unfortunately, people can find themselves, due to fault of their own, dependent or addicted to gambling, although it has no real internal addicting features. he may retort by saying that moneyloss/win is addicting, but then how is gambling different from say day trading, or investing one's money personally. drug dealing and prostitution are implicitly harmful because they they have real physical and mental effects, such as decreased life expectancy, a very subordinate subsistence for unfortunate young women, death via drugs or disease.

allow the congressman to point out vices of gambling that do not relate to the bible or american ethics, which are, obv, not real reasons.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

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"nanny state". Regardless of your dinner mates personal view of poker, we enjoy playing and are harming no one.

Further where the government says is "ok" to play where and when, does not work for all of us.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the "harming no one" argument will not hold water. Here is a quote from some hearings he chaired on the matter.

[ QUOTE ]

I appreciate your testimony. Mr. Goodlatte mentioned, and I think others have mentioned, that Mrs. Kelly held some extensive hearings on this earlier this month. If you read that testimony, I think, if for no other reason, you see the social and the financial hazards that young people have when they are exposed to internet gambling. They are computer-sophisticated. They normally have access to a credit card. They become addicted at a young age to this form of gambling. And if for no other reason, I think we need to address it. And it is a tremendously growing problem with our young people who become addicted to gambling at such an early age.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course online poker harms some people. Just like alcohol, lottery tickets, casino gambling, shopping, credit cards, etc. However, all of those things are perfectly legal. It's about personal choice. Adults should be able to choose whether to gamble online. Some will not be able to handle it, but that doesn't mean they should take it away from the many people who can handle it.

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This doesn't hold water, in fact it doesn't even really address what the Congressman's main problem in the above quote. Do you see why?

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but why attack gambling and not other things, like video games, or sports? they first need to show why gambling is a greater vice than these

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am having dinner with a 6 term Republican Congressman next week. A good friend married a his daughter, blah blah blah.
This is not a fundraiser type thing, rather dinner at my friend's house with about 6-8 people.

I have known the Congressman for about 5 years and have a fairly casual relationship, as he and I typically get involved is some type of political discussion after a few beers.

He is supports the UIGA and has in the past, compared gambling sites with drug dealers (yes I live in the south).
However, he is a reasonable man and I'm almost certain he has probably never discussed the situation with someone who derives a large portion of his income from online poker.

I would love to hear some well thought out points I should make.

Thanks,
Jb

[/ QUOTE ]


Poker is no different, no more dangerous to ones own standard of living, than say a part time day trader doing it over the net. Day trading on the net provides the exact same level of exhiliration for an action junkie and one can just as easily lose money as earn it. But trading stocks is a national past time. Your average day trader knows no more about the stocks he's trading (probably less in fact) than your average online poker player knows about how to play a gutshot on the turn.

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I think this is a poor comparison. The fact of the matter is there is a growing percentage of young people that have a gambling problem, especially when it comes to online gambling. There is not a significant number of people with a daytime-trading problem.

I'm against the poker legislation, but I do believe there is a fair point that many people are developing gambling problems and that it needs to be addressed. How it needs to be addressed is where I differ from the past Congress.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

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There is not a significant number of people with a daytime-trading problem.

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O RLY?

One of the more misguided statements I've heard.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

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There is not a significant number of people with a daytime-trading problem.

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I personally know half a dozen people who have blown a small fortune doing this. (Very smart people in other aspects of life also)

Makes the kid who robbed a bank over $6,000 in poker losses look like he dropped some change on the ground and couldn't find it.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

Addicted to day trading

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

poker is the stock market. there are some sure things and some risks. and on any given day you can lose your shirt.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

Interest allows money to flow from those who have it to those who want it and compensates for the risk involved. The free flow of capital has economic benefits, but there are cases with bad outcomes (deadbeat + loanshark). Many muslim countries have laws against charging interest (and sham workarounds) because their religon tells them usury is evil.

Gambling is a market for information. The free flow of information has social benefits. When I wanted to know election results, I went to Tradesports, not CNN.

The poker sites did a very fair job of preventing underaged players, far better than you'd find for alcohol, drugs, or porn. Credit cards (the mechanism he mentions) were largely worthless, thanks to charge backs.

Is there any activity he would not be willing to prohibit in the name of protecting the children? Where, exactly, is the victim when I commit the crime of donking off $20 on Stars in an hour?

If he really wants to help me he should ban golf -- that game sucks up my cash far too quickly.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

1) Ask him when online porn is going to be made illegal, and if it isn't, why it is better for our society than a card game.

2) Be ready to have your socks blown off when he presents the undeniable proof that online poker benefits terrorism.

And not that you don't know this, don't be mean-spirited or confrontational. If this dinner is not set up for you to specifically discuss online poker, respect everyone else's time.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

The gambling that is business looks with disfavor on the business that is gambling.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

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There is not a significant number of people with a daytime-trading problem.

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O RLY?

One of the more misguided statements I've heard.

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Could you prove your point a bit better than that? I'll accept that it seems to be a bigger problem then I realized, but I haven't found anything saying that it is close to or more than online gambling addictions.

Add to that that young people 15-25 are much more likely to get involved with online gambling than online day trading (I don't have statistics for this, but I think you could generally accept that. I knew many people that played poker in University and knew very few that messed around with stocks). Young people are more likely to develop a gambling problem or not be mature enough to risk money within their means.

Finally, even if Day Trading is a significant problem, it doesn't avoid the Government's responsibility to address the online gambling problem. Again I don't agree with their chosen approach, but I have no problem with extra regulations being added to make it harder for teenagers to gamble online or to make it harder to put money in these sites. The argument that poker shouldn't be illegal because cigarettes, day-trading, alcohol, ... aren't illegal isn't valid to me. Clearly somebody that supports making poker illegal could use the same argument for making alcohol illegal.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

Acknowledge gambling can become a problem. Then explain why poker is different than gambling. I like to start by telling people that you don't see any professional slot players, but there are plenty of professional poker players.

The primary problem in this issue is that people in office lump all gambling with poker. The focus should be on why particular states like California recognize that poker is more than a game of chance. Thus it should be treated and regulated (if neccessary) differently than pure gambling (or games of chance like roulette, craps, etc...)

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

[ QUOTE ]
1) Ask him when online porn is going to be made illegal, and if it isn't, why it is better for our society than a card game.

2) Be ready to have your socks blown off when he presents the undeniable proof that online poker benefits terrorism.

And not that you don't know this, don't be mean-spirited or confrontational. If this dinner is not set up for you to specifically discuss online poker, respect everyone else's time.

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The porn question did come to mind. The terrorism issue was one I was specificly going to ask him about. In the past there have been certain issues, where he will publicly tow the party line but has privately said, "I would never vote for X or Y but it will never come to that" I think he is too smart of a guy to really believe the terrorism link. He's a Republican not a retard.

The conversation will mainly center around college football because that's about the only thing most people around here care about. From what I understand he enjoys it when I am around because I do have an interest in politics.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

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There is not a significant number of people with a daytime-trading problem.

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O RLY?

One of the more misguided statements I've heard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you prove your point a bit better than that? I'll accept that it seems to be a bigger problem then I realized, but I haven't found anything saying that it is close to or more than online gambling addictions.

Add to that that young people 15-25 are much more likely to get involved with online gambling than online day trading (I don't have statistics for this, but I think you could generally accept that. I knew many people that played poker in University and knew very few that messed around with stocks). Young people are more likely to develop a gambling problem or not be mature enough to risk money within their means.

Finally, even if Day Trading is a significant problem, it doesn't avoid the Government's responsibility to address the online gambling problem. Again I don't agree with their chosen approach, but I have no problem with extra regulations being added to make it harder for teenagers to gamble online or to make it harder to put money in these sites. The argument that poker shouldn't be illegal because cigarettes, day-trading, alcohol, ... aren't illegal isn't valid to me. Clearly somebody that supports making poker illegal could use the same argument for making alcohol illegal.

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I can remember at least a half dozen stories of daytraders killing half an office and then themselves after the tech market went busto. I haven't heard of 1 poker pro killing himself or anyone else after losing his entire bankroll.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

Ask him why we're so protectionist and hypocritical. Most gambling degenerates I've learned of have lost their entire lives gambling in B&M casinos, not on partypoker. Furthermore, if there is a security concern with money laundering and the sort, why illegalize it in the US and drive the industry underground, where criminals and drug dealers and terrorists control it? Give the good old companies of the USA and their entrepreneurial spirit a chance to give a better gambling product to gambling addicts (lower rake so they can lose less money, for example), tax their profits, and victory all around..

or, just be captured by special interests and limit the freedom of US citizens further.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

[ QUOTE ]
Acknowledge gambling can become a problem. Then explain why poker is different than gambling. I like to start by telling people that you don't see any professional slot players, but there are plenty of professional poker players.

The primary problem in this issue is that people in office lump all gambling with poker. The focus should be on why particular states like California recognize that poker is more than a game of chance. Thus it should be treated and regulated (if neccessary) differently than pure gambling (or games of chance like roulette, craps, etc...)


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The fact that Poker is a game of skill doesn't mean it isn't gambling. There are professional poker players, and there are lots of people that lose money just as easily as they would on slots. The only difference is that with slots the casino gets all the advantage and with poker the casino and good players share the money other players lose.

Just because some people can make money at poker doesn't mean it isn't gambling for the majority of people.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

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I like to start by telling people that you don't see any professional slot players, but there are plenty of professional poker players.

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But in theory you could be a professional slot player, though you would need a huge bankroll for the wicked amount of variance. (Hint: progressive jackpots...)

[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

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Addicted to day trading

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8 year old article... best you could find????

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

Many Americans are THANKFULL that we have wise, elected officials, to make the very difficult day-to-day choices we face. This online gambling burden is one I am glad I will no longer have to deal with on my own. For I am far to too simple to understand the consequences of my own decisions. Many of us had to settle for state college educations, and could not possibly understand the complexity of such an issue.

My biggest hope is that during your dinner with GOD, is that you can convice him that I will need his help deciding what to do in every aspect of my life.

Some examples:

My latest girlfriend is a w h o r e. Does he think I should marry her and become a swinger?

My corner bar has draft beer for $1.25, but not my favorite beer. I would have to drive another 1.5 miles and pay $1.75 for my favorite. What should I do?

The Mexicans who cut my lawn leave trash in my yard. Will he help me get them deported?

Thanks for your help jbrent33.

I will have more questions for HIM next time you are invited for dinner.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

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I can remember at least a half dozen stories of daytraders killing half an office and then themselves after the tech market went busto. I haven't heard of 1 poker pro killing himself or anyone else after losing his entire bankroll.

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http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1299780

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

I'd just go with "Yes, you can get addicted. You can also get addicted to McDonalds - shall we ban that? You can also get addicted to Cigarettes - shall we ban that, or regulate it? You can also get addicted to alchohol - shall we ban that? Oh, we already tried, look how well that worked. You can also get addicted to betting on horses, shall we ban that? Oh, we specifically allowed it"

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

One thing I like about poker sites, which is a gambling site lets not kid ourselves, is that with a lot of them u can set a limit to how much u lose. Today I just found on pokerstars that they have a responsible gambling option under requests, where u can set ur limits u want to lose, or u can select exclude me from playing. Im a winnin player so I dont need this option, but there is something that I wish had this option. When I was a smoker I wished that ciggarettes would be made illegal or had an exclude me from this so it would be easier for me to quit. After lots of struggle I have quit smoking but now I wish that alchohol was illeagal now or they would have a no sale to me cuz IM addicted option to help me quit like these poker sites have (just a note Im not addicted to gambling which IM kinda surprised at). Dont know if this will help but hope this might give u an idea to help u out.

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

ANYONE WHO VOTED FOR THIS BILL IS NOT OPEN MINDED. YOU MIGHT AS WELL TRY TO TURN POOP INTO GOLD. Just enjoy your dinner and don't waste your breath. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Dinner With A Congressman
 

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I can remember at least a half dozen stories of daytraders killing half an office and then themselves after the tech market went busto. I haven't heard of 1 poker pro killing himself or anyone else after losing his entire bankroll.

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http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1299780

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OK that's one now. At least he didn't take an office full of brokers with him. Young people kill themselves everyday. Maybe gambling,maybe unbalanced? Good link though,thanks.