What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

The last month i swear to god ive seen a 200% increase in the amt. of miniraises and minibets, and frankly i want to jump off a cliff. Anyone else experiencing this? Did a NEW book come out? Are they misinterpreting DNegreanu play in tourneys and Gavin Smith? What the hells going on here, it CANT be profitable

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

you're getting coolered

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

its not just me, im seeing it against everyone

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

I see two kinds of min-bets. For pot control and for value. One wants a call, the other a raise.

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I see two kinds of min-bets. For pot control and for value. One wants a call, the other a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see the "I wanna bluff you but Im not willing to put in a healthy bet" - minbet fairly often, too.

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

HAHAHAH I GOT MINRAISED SO MUCH TODAY

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

I think its generally accepted as a truth that minraises are becoming much more popular and harder to read. Someone have a few lines they like to play vs minraises depending on the situation?

Thanks.

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

Call/Raise

Raise

Fold

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

It's very tough to read. I always like to think its a "I want to bluff you but not commit too much" bet. But it could be anything. As of yet I haven't figured a way out of tackling it.

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

I feel like minraises are weak hands more often than strong hands. Recently, I have been reraising over minraisers and often they fold. Taking note of what people minraise with is one of the most frequent types of notes I have on people.

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

i just treat them like normal raises (that provide you with different pot odds, obviously). i don't think they "mean" anything; in other words, the average minraising villain is neither stronger nor weaker than the average raising villain in my opinion. here are two from today:

Full Tilt Poker
$1/$2 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
5 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
BTN: $97.50
SB: $191.95
BB: $94.35
UTG: $73
Hero (MP): $196.80

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($3, 5 players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $7</font>, BTN calls $7, SB folds, BB folds

<font color="black">Flop:</font> 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($17, 2 players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $13</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to $26</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises all in to $189.80</font>, BTN calls all in for $64.50
Uncalled bet of $99.30 returned to Hero

<font color="black">Turn:</font> 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] ($198, 2 players)
No action

<font color="black">River:</font> 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] ($198, 2 players)
No action

<font color="black">Results:</font>
BTN had 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (two pair, Nines and Twos)
Hero had Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (a full house, Queens full of Twos) and won $195
Final Pot: $195.00 ($3.00 rake)

Full Tilt Poker
$1/$2 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
6 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
SB: $199.2
BB: $294.35
Hero (UTG): $321.40
MP: $230.05
CO: $178.35
BTN: $328.60

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($3, 6 players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $7</font>, MP folds, CO calls $7, BTN folds, SB folds, BB calls $5

<font color="black">Flop:</font> 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($22, 3 players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $17</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to $34</font>, BB folds, <font color="red">Hero raises all in to $314.40</font>, CO calls all in for $137.35
Uncalled bet of $143.05 returned to Hero

<font color="black">Turn:</font> 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] ($364.7, 2 players)
No action

<font color="black">River:</font> 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] ($364.7, 2 players)
No action

<font color="black">Results:</font>
Hero had J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (a pair of Jacks) and won $361.70
CO had 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (a pair of Sevens)
Final Pot: $361.70 ($3.00 rake)

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

I dont know but it [censored] drives me crazy too. I lose a lot of money to [censored] around trying to figure it out

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

I may start integrating the min reraise and let you all know how that works.

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

LET me know , cause i want to punch the guy everytime.

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

people are taking limons advice.

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

I think that a minraise means "I used to play LIMIT!"

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

[ QUOTE ]
people are taking limons advice.

[/ QUOTE ]
I lol'ed.

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

minraise = "I have the nuts"

hand 1 overpair = teh nuts

hand 2 TPTK = teh nuts

you just need to work out what each payer happens to think the nuts is so you know what hands to call with...

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

A lot of people minraise marginal top pairs these days. I used to read it as set or something similar earlier, but nowadays it mostly seems to be weak top pair. They're not folding to 3-bet though so you can easily 3-bet push sets and they happily go broke with K3 on KT7 flop [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

[ QUOTE ]
people are taking limons advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

possibly true. i have many students. just looking at this thread and the angst they cuase proves the power especially the guy who treats min and full raises the same. i would min raise that guy into a coma. BTW DO NOT TRY THIS W/O PROPER INSTRUCTION. YOU WILL GET SLAUGHTERED.

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

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people are taking limons advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

possibly true. i have many students. just looking at this thread and the angst they cuase proves the power especially the guy who treats min and full raises the same. i would min raise that guy into a coma. BTW DO NOT TRY THIS W/O PROPER INSTRUCTION. YOU WILL GET SLAUGHTERED.

[/ QUOTE ]

angst != money. minraising has few strategic benefits and many obvious flaws. even for xperts like you.

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
people are taking limons advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

possibly true. i have many students. just looking at this thread and the angst they cuase proves the power especially the guy who treats min and full raises the same. i would min raise that guy into a coma. BTW DO NOT TRY THIS W/O PROPER INSTRUCTION. YOU WILL GET SLAUGHTERED.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, that would work great for you.

the first two times.

my post was regarding unknowns.

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

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people are taking limons advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

possibly true. i have many students. just looking at this thread and the angst they cuase proves the power especially the guy who treats min and full raises the same. i would min raise that guy into a coma. BTW DO NOT TRY THIS W/O PROPER INSTRUCTION. YOU WILL GET SLAUGHTERED.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, that would work great for you.

the first two times.

my post was regarding unknowns.

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm, how would you treat them after the 1st two times?

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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people are taking limons advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

possibly true. i have many students. just looking at this thread and the angst they cuase proves the power especially the guy who treats min and full raises the same. i would min raise that guy into a coma. BTW DO NOT TRY THIS W/O PROPER INSTRUCTION. YOU WILL GET SLAUGHTERED.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, that would work great for you.

the first two times.

my post was regarding unknowns.

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm, how would you treat them after the 1st two times?

[/ QUOTE ]

"it depends"

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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people are taking limons advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

possibly true. i have many students. just looking at this thread and the angst they cuase proves the power especially the guy who treats min and full raises the same. i would min raise that guy into a coma. BTW DO NOT TRY THIS W/O PROPER INSTRUCTION. YOU WILL GET SLAUGHTERED.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, that would work great for you.

the first two times.

my post was regarding unknowns.

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm, how would you treat them after the 1st two times?

[/ QUOTE ]

after the first two, i'd shove over every subsequent minraise.

to anyone who doubts the power read this!
 

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people are taking limons advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

possibly true. i have many students. just looking at this thread and the angst they cuase proves the power especially the guy who treats min and full raises the same. i would min raise that guy into a coma. BTW DO NOT TRY THIS W/O PROPER INSTRUCTION. YOU WILL GET SLAUGHTERED.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, that would work great for you.

the first two times.

my post was regarding unknowns.

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm, how would you treat them after the 1st two times?

[/ QUOTE ]

after the first two, i'd shove over every subsequent minraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

awesome!!! i will say no more on the subject its just too powerful to give away for free.

Re: to anyone who doubts the power read this!
 

asking 'what does a minraise mean' is as silly as saying 'teach me how to play tptk'

it mfing depends. post some mfing hands.

Re: to anyone who doubts the power read this!
 

limon, for the first time i see your point and understand what you have been trying to say this whole time.

Re: to anyone who doubts the power read this!
 

[ QUOTE ]
limon, for the first time i see your point and understand what you have been trying to say this whole time.

[/ QUOTE ]

that people will go bananas if you minraise them enough times? people get annoyed if you make regular raises at them too, but you dont have to give away great odds and make the price cheaper for bluffs.

Re: to anyone who doubts the power read this!
 

I agree with you smellmuth and i dont remember the last time i min raised however in thinking about it, when someone check min raises me it infuriates me so much that sometimes i may 3 bet push with hands that i would not be prepared to play for stacks otherwise so i guess in the right situation against volitile villians (like myself) i can see limon's point.

Re: to anyone who doubts the power read this!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
limon, for the first time i see your point and understand what you have been trying to say this whole time.

[/ QUOTE ]

that people will go bananas if you minraise them enough times? people get annoyed if you make regular raises at them too, but you dont have to give away great odds and make the price cheaper for bluffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

weird, in the games i play you can make min raises or regular raises...you can even make really big ones, sucks that you guys have to choose one or the other. what is a "regular" raise btw?

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

there are a few superpowerful minraise bluffs.

Re: to anyone who doubts the power read this!
 

[ QUOTE ]
asking 'what does a minraise mean' is as silly as saying 'teach me how to play tptk'

it mfing depends. post some mfing hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's one... I don't have much on villian. He's made a couple donkish $1-2 bets in 2 or 3 orbits.

Converted by PokerGeek
Absolute NL Hold'em Ring - .5/1
Blinds (4 handed)

Starting Stacks
Seat 1: Big blind ($97.76)
Seat 3: CO (Hero) ($266.85)
Seat 4: Button ($79.40)
Seat 5: Small blind ($79.80)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises ($4), Button folds, Small blind folds, Big blind calls ($3)

Flop: ($8.5) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Big blind checks, Hero bets ($8), Big blind raises ($16), Hero...

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
people are taking limons advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

possibly true. i have many students. just looking at this thread and the angst they cuase proves the power especially the guy who treats min and full raises the same. i would min raise that guy into a coma. BTW DO NOT TRY THIS W/O PROPER INSTRUCTION. YOU WILL GET SLAUGHTERED.

[/ QUOTE ]


we actually had a brief debate over whether or not to address the subject in book 1 (we did, but briefly).

i will say this: if it's driving you nuts, your opponents must be doing something right. it's not hard to figure out once you realize the implications of bet sizing, but it's the kind of thing that will get you in trouble if you don't know what you're doing. very much like underbetting in that regard, and frankly i don't think i use either as well as i should.

limon you have MANY students?? i am surprised that you would take them on. you are getting soft in your dotage.

i was in S. Pasadena in Sept for a day (Grandma's 93rd birthday), not enough time to look you up but i may make a trip out there in late spring.

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

[ QUOTE ]
people are taking limons advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

whats this mean? someone have a link to a post?

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

[ QUOTE ]


limon you have MANY students?? i am surprised that you would take them on. you are getting soft in your dotage.



[/ QUOTE ]

the pokerboom created a strange situation where i could trade poker knowledge to people who had expertise in subjects i wanted to learn about. i have never charged $$$ unless you count the mandatory heads up matches i require as part of the training.

Re: to anyone who doubts the power read this!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
asking 'what does a minraise mean' is as silly as saying 'teach me how to play tptk'

it mfing depends. post some mfing hands.

[/ QUOTE ]


Here's one... I don't have much on villian. He's made a couple donkish $1-2 bets in 2 or 3 orbits.

Converted by PokerGeek
Absolute NL Hold'em Ring - .5/1
Blinds (4 handed)

Starting Stacks
Seat 1: Big blind ($97.76)
Seat 3: CO (Hero) ($266.85)
Seat 4: Button ($79.40)
Seat 5: Small blind ($79.80)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises ($4), Button folds, Small blind folds, Big blind calls ($3)

Flop: ($8.5) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Big blind checks, Hero bets ($8), Big blind raises ($16), Hero...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the exact situation where if this guy has been check min raising me often i may snap and stack off with TT only to see QQ-AA, a set, 2 pair or a straight. Something i would never ever do if they guy had been raising check raising me a decent amount every time.

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

[ QUOTE ]
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people are taking limons advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

possibly true. i have many students. just looking at this thread and the angst they cuase proves the power especially the guy who treats min and full raises the same. i would min raise that guy into a coma. BTW DO NOT TRY THIS W/O PROPER INSTRUCTION. YOU WILL GET SLAUGHTERED.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, that would work great for you.

the first two times.

my post was regarding unknowns.

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm, how would you treat them after the 1st two times?

[/ QUOTE ]

after the first two, i'd shove over every subsequent minraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't read past this, but LOL LOL LOL..

I hope you realize that limon pwned you in this thread due to this response..

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises?
 

[ QUOTE ]
we actually had a brief debate over whether or not to address the subject in book 1 (we did, but briefly).


[/ QUOTE ]

well its mandatory that this is included in any book but not under the title "minraising" which is not at all what im talking about. im talking about accurate bet sizing which im sure you discuss at length. many on this forum (and hsnl for that matter) have never even thought about minraising although they discuss massive overbets adnauseum. the truth is minbets have huge psychological baggage, they are "loaded". somtimes i raise just over the minraise because i dont want any minraise baggage associated w/ my move.

Re: What hell is with all the miniraises? I FOLD
 

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people are taking limons advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

possibly true. i have many students. just looking at this thread and the angst they cuase proves the power especially the guy who treats min and full raises the same. i would min raise that guy into a coma. BTW DO NOT TRY THIS W/O PROPER INSTRUCTION. YOU WILL GET SLAUGHTERED.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, that would work great for you.

the first two times.

my post was regarding unknowns.

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm, how would you treat them after the 1st two times?

[/ QUOTE ]

after the first two, i'd shove over every subsequent minraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't read past this, but LOL LOL LOL..

I hope you realize that limon pwned you in this thread due to this response..

[/ QUOTE ]

its like taking candy from babies but that is not the reason i started posting here but it is the reason why ill stop. the hsnl forums had become so poisonous, sophomoric, and misguided that i came down here to give some love to the up and coming students of the game. its even worse down here because you guys dont even have basic poker knowledge to accompany your juvenile delinquency.