Questions about Germany
 

I currently live in the United States and a portion of my income comes directly from playing 5-10 NL hold em (Actually a little over half my total income to be exact). I am considering moving to Germany in the next 6 months for roughly a year or so. A couple of my friends are moving there and getting away for a year sounds like fun. So now the questions and general info.

1) Being that the unemployment rate is so high in Germany finding a job may be difficult for someone who does NOT speak any German. So i need to know if it is feasible to make a living playing poker in case i am unable to find a job. I really know nothing about the gambling landscape in Germany (or Europe for that matter). I have no idea if they even have games running. I did a cursory Internet search but really found out nothing.

2) I have never played any poker online so as of now this is not even an option. I have a certain aversion to online play.

3) I have played poker for over 9 years and have been successful the first 7 playing limit games (up to 15-30)and the last 2 years playing NL (thank you WPT). I have a healthy bankroll ($20K+) and am fairly confident in my abilities. I play in Southern California so am used to aggressive play (and highly stupid play as well, thanks again WPT).

If anyone can give me some general info I would really appreciate it. I'm just looking to see if poker is a viable outlet in Germany. I just need to be able to survive for a year in case i cannot get a job without seriously depleting my savings and bankroll.

I really know nothing about Germany so any information would be appreciated.

Re: Questions about Germany
 

You won't have much luck finding poker in Germany. The only games played if any (mostly only on weekends) are at the larger state casinos. German law does not permit card rooms like the ones in California.
If you find a game it will have a very high time charge or rake. And it will be played potlimit (either stud or omaha, I am not aware of any HE games spread in Germany).

If you want to support yourself for one year playing poker in Europe I suggest either Austria or UK.

Austria has many cardrooms, but if you want to play in the bigger games you have to learn PLO, HE and stud are spread limit only (up to 15-30).

I have never played in the UK but I hear they have started spreading NL HE games as the TV poker boom reached them some time ago and is only starting in the rest of Europe.

Anyway, I hope this helps.

Regards,
RegBarclay

Re: Questions about Germany
 

Thanks for the post RegBarclay. That pretty much completely answers my question. What... a.... bummer....

So i guess this means either, A) No poker for me in Germany (with a high rake and PLO and Stud not my forte, no way i can count on that as an income) or B) Get over my aversion towards online poker and learn it.

Anyhow thanks again.

Re: Questions about Germany
 

- There is a casino near hamburg which has a weekly 5-10 limit HE game and some other poker games including stud.

- You don´t have to pay taxes on your winnings in germany which may help your case.

Re: Questions about Germany
 

"I am considering moving to Germany in the next 6 months for roughly a year or so."

You should come before the World Cup in June.

"...the unemployment rate is so high in Germany..."

It is, but it's getting better.

"finding a job may be difficult for someone who does NOT speak any German."

What do you do?

Lots (I would guess a significant majority) of people in Germany don't speak English with any proficiency. I hope one of your friends speaks German and that you get to stay with him.

"I really know nothing about the gambling landscape in Germany (or Europe for that matter)."

I've never played in a casino in Europe, mostly because I haven't found any reasonable games. I play NLHE. Here's what I've found:

1. Some German casinos claim (on websites) to spread low limit HE. I don't know if this is true.
2. Paris: Aviation Club, During the WPT, they were spreading NLHE up to 2-4. They were taking names for a 5-10 game, and they had a short 30-60 going for a short time. The rake was very high.
3. London: Victoria casino, very marginal-looking, was spreading NLHE 1-2 and 2-4 over a weekend.
4. Barcelona: They were spreading one game of 5-10 limit HE and one game of 5-10 PLO over a weekend.
5. HE does not exist in Southern France, including Monaco.

"I have never played any poker online so as of now this is not even an option. I have a certain aversion to online play."

A very questionable stance, I think.

"You don´t have to pay taxes on your winnings in germany"

If it were that easy then everyone would do it. Income taxed in Germany (i.e., real-job income) gets waived in the US so that the tax-payer is not double taxed. $$$ not taxed in Germany (e.g., poker winnings) is (for US citizens) still taxed in the US.

Re: Questions about Germany
 

[ QUOTE ]

"...the unemployment rate is so high in Germany..."

It is, but it's getting better.



[/ QUOTE ]

All german people I know would disagree with you here.

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Lots (I would guess a significant majority) of people in Germany don't speak English with any proficiency.



[/ QUOTE ]

Depending on what you deem "proficient", i think you´re really exaggerating.

[ QUOTE ]


"You don´t have to pay taxes on your winnings in germany"

If it were that easy then everyone would do it. Income taxed in Germany (i.e., real-job income) gets waived in the US so that the tax-payer is not double taxed. $$$ not taxed in Germany (e.g., poker winnings) is (for US citizens) still taxed in the US.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, I didn´t consider he wont become a citizen of Germany but will only stay here for a while.

Re: Questions about Germany
 

CC, I didn't mean to offend. I think Americans are much worse when it comes to foreign languages/cultures than Germans. But for a country which mandates English classes in middle/high school, Germans speak remarkably poor English. My university-educated, German colleagues, who work for an American high tech firm, speak reasonable English for the most part. But I have found that most people in the service industry - furniture stores, gyms, department stores, government agencies, banks - speak little or no English.

And to the OP's point, it is one thing to live with someone who speaks the language or have your firm move you (find you an apt, move your stuff, register you for German class, etc.) and quite another to find your own apt, buy your own furniture, and otherwise set yourself up for daily life with no previous experience with the language. Not impossible, but difficult.

Re: Questions about Germany
 

If you haven't yet, google "expat bavaria" for a couple decent expat sites for Germany.

Re: Questions about Germany
 

I didn´t feel offended. I´m planning to move to Riedquat anyway.

Re: Questions about Germany
 

internet poker perhaps? people have been known to make some money doing that.

Re: Questions about Germany
 

I´m currently in Munich, is there poker here? I´m free tomorrow night and would like to find a game...

Re: Questions about Germany
 

[ QUOTE ]
3. London: Victoria casino, very marginal-looking, was spreading NLHE 1-2 and 2-4 over a weekend.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there is plenty of PLHE in Britain and Ireland. This is not real differnt from NLHE as a cash game.

In continental Europe, there may be more PLO, pot limit dealers choice, other pot limit games, and limit holdem and stud, depending on the location.

Re: Questions about Germany
 

[ QUOTE ]
You should come before the World Cup in June.

[/ QUOTE ] Yeah i know. But it looks like it will be a little after the World Cup.

[ QUOTE ]
What do you do?

[/ QUOTE ] Currently i split my time between managing a small company and playing poker. It's an interesting situation. I'm actually really still only working because the owner's a good friend of mine and having a steady paycheck is always a good thing. I also have extensive experience in human resources and as soon as i finish my student teaching will have my credentials to go with my masters. I also have my BA in psychology. So i'm not sure if my skillset would help me get a job in Germany or not.

[ QUOTE ]
Lots (I would guess a significant majority) of people in Germany don't speak English with any proficiency. I hope one of your friends speaks German and that you get to stay with him.

[/ QUOTE ] Yeah, one of my friends speaks fluent German so that will be helpful. And i've already purchased a bunch of stuff to learn the language. But given that it will be self taught and 6 months, i have no doubt my German will still be pathetic.

[ QUOTE ]
2. Paris: Aviation Club, During the WPT, they were spreading NLHE up to 2-4. They were taking names for a 5-10 game, and they had a short 30-60 going for a short time. The rake was very high.

[/ QUOTE ] When you guys say high, what exactly is high?

[ QUOTE ]
A very questionable stance, I think.

[/ QUOTE ] Concerning Internet poker, yes i agree this is a very questionable stance and i may have to change my mind about it. I'm no conspiracy theorist but i've done alot of reading over the years concerning it and just found it... not worth it. With all the live games that i have available to me and the relative safety of most of these games i have just stayed away.

[ QUOTE ]
"You don´t have to pay taxes on your winnings in germany"

[/ QUOTE ] Taxes, taxes, taxes. Such an interesting thing. Does anyone really pay taxes on their live play if they make less than 40K a year if none of it is ever recorded by the casino?

Re: Questions about Germany
 

"I think there is plenty of PLHE in Britain and Ireland. This is not real differnt from NLHE as a cash game."

Right, my post above should read NL/PL-HE for all of the games mentioned. London only had Victoria Casino for NL/PL HE, and the biggest game going was a 2-4. I don't know about other parts of England.

"In continental Europe, there may be more PLO, pot limit dealers choice, other pot limit games, and limit holdem and stud, depending on the location."

True, I only asked about any form of HE. However, contrary to what some say, I find very little of it spread anywhere. And aside from Aviation Club in Paris during WPT, nothing even medium-sized.

Re: Questions about Germany
 

Maybe learn to play online or learn to play PLO or Stud or whatever they play in Germany.

Re: Questions about Germany
 

There is Casino Schenefeld near Hamburg where you can play 10/20 limit , PL 2000, 100€ STTs (tuesday, saturday) and 200€ 3-Table MTTs (saturday) (ALL Hold'em)

Rake is 2,50€ per 100€ pot or something, dealer tips are 2,50€ minimum

the games are very loose...hf

Re: Questions about Germany
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is Casino Schenefeld near Hamburg where you can play 10/20 limit , PL 2000, 100€ STTs (tuesday, saturday) and 200€ 3-Table MTTs (saturday) (ALL Hold'em)

Rake is 2,50€ per 100€ pot or something, dealer tips are 2,50€ minimum

the games are very loose...hf

[/ QUOTE ]

What is PL2000? PLHE or PLO? Is 2000€ the buyin? What are the blinds?

Is 10/20 limit holdem or stud?

Re: Questions about Germany
 

[ QUOTE ]
Lots (I would guess a significant majority) of people in Germany don't speak English with any proficiency.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is inaccurate. Most Germans speak surprisingly good English. Whether they admit it or not and/or whether they are willing to try to speak it is a different thing.

Re: Questions about Germany
 

"Most Germans speak surprisingly good English. Whether they admit it or not and/or whether they are willing to try to speak it is a different thing."

Substitute "Frenchmen" for "Germans" in your sentence above, and I might agree.

Re: Questions about Germany
 

[ QUOTE ]
"Most Germans speak surprisingly good English. Whether they admit it or not and/or whether they are willing to try to speak it is a different thing."

Substitute "Frenchmen" for "Germans" in your sentence above, and I might agree.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ipso facto, none of these generalizations are very accurate. Whether or not a German speaks English is influenced to a decent degree by demographic. Uni students are much more likely to speak English, for example, than 90-year old grandmothers.

Re: Questions about Germany
 

[ QUOTE ]
"Most Germans speak surprisingly good English. Whether they admit it or not and/or whether they are willing to try to speak it is a different thing."

Substitute "Frenchmen" for "Germans" in your sentence above, and I might agree.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you´re kidding. French only speak French and even have a law that prohibits the use of english terms in public.

Re: Questions about Germany
 

"I hope you´re kidding. French only speak French and even have a law that prohibits the use of english terms in public."

The French don't actually abide by that law. And whether the French choose to speak English or know how to speak English are two different things. In French middle/high schools, kids are required to learn English and, in addition (as the secondary language), either German or Spanish.

Re: Questions about Germany
 

This is getting off-topic. Otherwise I would tell you some stories about how easy it is to communicate with Parisians in Paris when you only speak German, English and a little French [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Questions about Germany
 

I haven't been to Germany, but Poker in Europe has some information, perhaps dated, since the rake caps are in DM.

Looks like mostly 7cs, limit, spread limit and pot limit, also some PLHE and PLO.

From what the other poster said, it seems like there are some NLHE tournaments and 2 or 3 table tournaments, since all the TV exposure of that.

Seems like mostly just mid limit and somewhat higher rake than in North America and British Isles.

I would certainly give whatever games they have a try. Don't be an ugly American and look for everything just like at home.

Poker in Europe directory of German card rooms
Daily cash games.
Stud, Holdem, and Omaha.
Limit, Spread Limit and Pot Limit.
5% rake capped at DM 10

10-50 Spread Limit 7 Card Stud

7 Card Stud
10-50 Spread Limit
Pot Limit

Pot Limit 7 Card Stud

Daily cash games
Holdem, DM 20-100, pot limit
3 - 5% rake

7 Card Stud
10-20 Limit
10-50 Spread Limit
Pot Limit

Pot Limt Holdem, Stud and Omaha.
5 % rake, capped at DM 15

Re: Questions about Germany
 

The informations above are outdated. We don't use the DM (Deutsche Mark) since 2002 anymore.