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-   -   How to counterattack shortstacks (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=309267)

Panic__NL 01-18-2007 06:09 PM

How to counterattack shortstacks
 
I have been playing NL10 6max on Titan lately, and it is full of short stack. And short as in 1 dollar or less.
What are the do's and donts against those shorties. When u "stack" lol them, they buy in for the same amount. Just find another table?? or is there a way to make a profit of these guys? implied odds are of no importance i guess.

Leviathan101 01-18-2007 06:21 PM

Re: How to counterattack shortstacks
 
if they are employing a short stack strategy, like ed millers, you really can't do anything. Just steal their blinds, they'll rarely fight back.

If they are playing loose and short, just 3 bet AI with good hands.

zjd 01-18-2007 06:27 PM

Re: How to counterattack shortstacks
 
if there are more than 2 <25bb stacks at the table I usually leave unless the table is sick good.

and dont make poor calls w/ 2nd pair, etc "just b/c he's short"

Leviathan101 01-18-2007 06:29 PM

Re: How to counterattack shortstacks
 
If you have the odds to chase go for it. The but realize a smart short player is deliberately trying to restrict the action to two streets, preflop and flop. You'll have hte odsd to chase often, but you'll be behind a lot.

Panic__NL 01-18-2007 07:35 PM

Re: How to counterattack shortstacks
 
I dont think this are the good shortstack players. These people just want to take less risk.

keikiwai 01-18-2007 07:38 PM

Re: How to counterattack shortstacks
 
what you try and do to them: flop any decent pair+ and stack 'em

what they try to do to you: flop any pair and c-r you ai

iow - be very very carefully c-betting vs. short stacks.... i mean they'll fold, but they'll rr or c-r ai pretty often, so make sure you know what to do ahead of time if they do

ps: oh yeah, most short stacks suck.... Ace high is often a call vs. the really bad ones

Sean Fraley 01-18-2007 07:41 PM

Re: How to counterattack shortstacks
 
I've always found that the best way to counter-attack shortstacks is this:

1) 40 lashes with a cat-o-nine-tails (not the let's get kinky in bed type, but the Passion of the Christ type).

2) Douse them in kerosene.

3) Apply open flame.

Frosteater 01-18-2007 08:10 PM

Re: How to counterattack shortstacks
 
I don't know if that helps, but from my experience the shorties (which might be the ones who don't employ a fitting strategy, mind you) need much lower requirements to push their stacks (or whatever you want to call it) in the middle. So, there are a few things that are exploitable.

1. If they limp and you make a standard raise preflop, then they push, they very often have AceRag. I think it's usually a good call for you, if you have any pocket pair or at least AJ+.

2. If they see a flop and already have a good chunk of their stack in the middle, say about $0.4 of a $1 stack, it's often a good idea to check if they have position on you and you hit an ace-less (because the Ace is such a huge part of villain's range here) flop with anything. When you show weakness, you are very likely to induce a bluff and take their stack.

I know, it's not much, but maybe it helps against one or two of them.

Matt Ruff 01-18-2007 08:19 PM

Re: How to counterattack shortstacks
 
Shoot the hostage.

bjarne 01-18-2007 08:20 PM

Re: How to counterattack shortstacks
 
I like tables with a lot of short stacks. A table with all players having at least maximum buyin is a signal that at least a few of them know what they are doing.
But at uNL short stack players are usually very bad.

What's more, it is not uncommon that

1. I lose some pots to a short stack.
2. Short stack player now has larger stack.
3. Short stack player does not know how to play with larger stack.
4. Short stack player gets stacked.

Also, playing against short stacks is a bit more like playing limit. No huge implied odds preflop. Drawing hands go down in value. High card strength go up.

Another way to learn how to beat different types of player is to try their strategy yourself. I have done this myself when I find myself uncomfortable with a certain type of opponent. (I have tried this with maniac play, extreme LAGs, compulsive coldcallers etc). Pick a limit where you don't mind losing a few buyins.

Play short stack until you run into an opponent who seems to completely own you.
Study what he does. Which situations make you feel uncomfortable. Imitate.

If you never run into an opponent who beats you. Move up.

Pokey 01-18-2007 09:16 PM

Re: How to counterattack shortstacks
 
There are two prototypical types of short-stacked players: the cowards and the maniacs. It rarely takes long to figure out which one you're dealing with.

The cowards play an absolutely nittish game, often with a single-digit VPIP and a PFR that matches it. These are the guys who are either folding preflop or all-in on any flop. You want these guys sitting on your immediate left so that you can have the button twice as often (they'll fold nearly always, even from the button) and so that you can make some nice money stealing all their tasty blinds (which they will let go for a raise almost always). Pressure them a little bit and they'll crumble; if they happen to push back, fold and do the same thing the next time. And the time after that. And the time after that....

The maniacs are push-monkeys. They're mixing it up all the time, raising wildly, calling all sorts of raises, open-pushing most flops but folding flops quite often if pressured. These guys you'd like to have sitting on your right, so you can see what they do before you have to act. Against these folks, wait for a decent hand (A8+ suited or unsuited or any pocket pair) and be prepared to get it all-in preflop. In fact, your approach should be one that lets you get all-in preflop so that you can extract maximum value with your decent hands. Be ready for a rollercoaster, because pushing preflop is always high variance. Luckily their stack size is small, so you won't be risking quite as much.


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