AA 230bb+ deep
 

villan is a 38/21/2/50. The stack size make a huge diffrence in this hand, beacause this would probably have been the most i have ever put into the pot...Is this an easy call, and i am just beeing a bitch?

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
4 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $471.78
Button: $181
SB: $196.50
Hero: $491.70

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $8</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $27</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($55, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $50</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG raises all-in $444.78</font>, Hero.....

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

Its tough without reads but I think he do this with qq or kk more likely than a set.

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

ez call, TT-KK often enough

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

Call quickly.

Would he play 99 this fast? If he did, you pay him off.

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
villan is a 38/21/2/50. The stack size make a huge diffrence in this hand, beacause this would probably have been the most i have ever put into the pot...Is this an easy call, and i am just beeing a bitch?

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
4 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $471.78
Button: $181
SB: $196.50
Hero: $491.70

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $8</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $27</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($55, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $50</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG raises all-in $444.78</font>, Hero.....

[/ QUOTE ]

check flop.

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

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check flop.

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Wow, NO.

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

Snap call and stack his KK, I don't think he plays 99 like this

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

It's a lot of BB's but I'm still insta-calling.

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

pretty easy call imo.

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

I would have to say he has TT-KK here. I would call.

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

instacall pls

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

callcallcall

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

easy call i think. set should not be overpushing, and a guy with his stats easily plays tt-kk this way.

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

Let's not forget 76s and 54s, but I think KK-TT is the bulk of his range. Gotta call.

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

potting a dry flop in a reraised pot is a huge leak by the way

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
potting a dry flop in a reraised pot is a huge leak by the way

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explain pls?

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
potting a dry flop in a reraised pot is a huge leak by the way

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I agree with this with 100bb, but being this deep, I actually prefer a bigger flop bet like this to decreased reverse implied and to make it easier to get stacks in by the river.

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
potting a dry flop in a reraised pot is a huge leak by the way

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explain pls?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
potting a dry flop in a reraised pot is a huge leak by the way

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I don't get it. Is betting in and of itself the problem, or is the size of the bet the problem? Would you be ok with say, half-pot? What about if potting is your go-to bet HU when you have initiative? I would be interested in clarification.

Thanks.

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

hello everybody

i just registered because of this thread.
i am not a very good player ($.5/$1 NL, beating it slightly) - but i disagree with the general opinion here that a call is the right move.

i mean villains stats tell us something about his betting and raising, but it doesn't tell us that he is an idiot, right? i would say his range preflop includes ANY pocket pair. when ejay reraised him preflop villain practically knew he was up against AA, KK, QQ or the like. considering the big stacks and that he will hit a set about 1 in 8 times he can easily call preflop and go all-in if he hits his set. because he knows he will be called most of the time by opponents who think like you (who say call is the right move).

of course he could have KK or AA (why doesn't anybody consider AA?). but i seriously doubt he would go all-in with QQ or a lower PP that didnt make a set.

if you think i'm all wrong please explain why.

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

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check flop.

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Wow, NO.

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Agreed. Easy bet and call a shove.

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

if this is a set, well played by villian, i call

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
hello everybody

i just registered because of this thread.
i am not a very good player ($.5/$1 NL, beating it slightly) - but i disagree with the general opinion here that a call is the right move.

i mean villains stats tell us something about his betting and raising, but it doesn't tell us that he is an idiot, right? i would say his range preflop includes ANY pocket pair. when ejay reraised him preflop villain practically knew he was up against AA, KK, QQ or the like. considering the big stacks and that he will hit a set about 1 in 8 times he can easily call preflop and go all-in if he hits his set. because he knows he will be called most of the time by opponents who think like you (who say call is the right move).

of course he could have KK or AA (why doesn't anybody consider AA?). but i seriously doubt he would go all-in with QQ or a lower PP that didnt make a set.

if you think i'm all wrong please explain why.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
i mean villains stats tell us something about his betting and raising, but it doesn't tell us that he is an idiot, right? i would say his range preflop includes ANY pocket pair. when ejay reraised him preflop villain practically knew he was up against AA, KK, QQ or the like. considering the big stacks and that he will hit a set about 1 in 8 times he can easily call preflop and go all-in if he hits his set. because he knows he will be called most of the time by opponents who think like you (who say call is the right move).

of course he could have KK or AA (why doesn't anybody consider AA?). but i seriously doubt he would go all-in with QQ or a lower PP that didnt make a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, welcome to the forum. Your points are mostly correct, but that doesn't necessarily turn this into a fold.

I guess going point-by-point, we're ignoring AA mostly because there's only 1 combo left of AA in the deck - we're holding the other 2 aces. It also results in a push.

There are 6 combos of KK, 6 combos of QQ, and only 9 combos of 99, 55, and 44 combined. So, even if we assume he'll only push with AA-QQ and a set, we still have a call.

I do believe that our villian will push QQ here, and possibly JJ/TT as well. If he is thinking and knows we are thinking, we could have very easily 3-bet with AK (or worse if he's been picking on us) and he might be able to push us off of KK-JJ, or even AA.

Lastly, the fact that villian is in position makes it less likely that he would push a set here. He could easily call and expect us to bet again with a big hand. If he were first to act, a c/r all-in would probably be more correct with a set as it looks like he's protecting something, and keeps Hero from checking the turn through to keep the pot small.

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
potting a dry flop in a reraised pot is a huge leak by the way

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I agree with this with 100bb, but being this deep, I actually prefer a bigger flop bet like this to decreased reverse implied and to make it easier to get stacks in by the river.

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This is faulty thinking, if stacks this deep get in over 3 streets of betting AA unimproved is probably behind.

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

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check flop.

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Wow, NO.

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Would you be more likely to check at 100BB's deep and more likely to bet at 200BB's+ deep?

I think checking here with 100BB's is good.

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

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[ QUOTE ]
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check flop.

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Wow, NO.

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Would you be more likely to check at 100BB's deep and more likely to bet at 200BB's+ deep?

I think checking here with 100BB's is good.

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I'd be more inclined to check at 200bb's+ than at 100 bb's.

If you are that deep pot control starts to become a serious business, checking the flop is a good start in archieving this. Especially considering that villain is probably drawing to 2 outs...

At 100 bbs I just want to get the money in with a 3-bet pot.


To OP; I'd probably reluctantly call. But my image is a usually totally nutty (whey I like 3-betting *shrugs*) so I expect QQ+ to always push and TT/JJ occasionally. If you are very nitty with your 3-bets or in general tight it might shift to a fold but a really tough one.
I also bet less on this flop and might check it this deep...

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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check flop.

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Wow, NO.

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Would you be more likely to check at 100BB's deep and more likely to bet at 200BB's+ deep?

I think checking here with 100BB's is good.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd be more inclined to check at 200bb's+ than at 100 bb's.

If you are that deep pot control starts to become a serious business, checking the flop is a good start in archieving this. Especially considering that villain is probably drawing to 2 outs...

At 100 bbs I just want to get the money in with a 3-bet pot.


To OP; I'd probably reluctantly call. But my image is a usually totally nutty (whey I like 3-betting *shrugs*) so I expect QQ+ to always push and TT/JJ occasionally. If you are very nitty with your 3-bets or in general tight it might shift to a fold but a really tough one.
I also bet less on this flop and might check it this deep...

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Ok that makes sense. If you had QQ here it is a definite flop check right?

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

i would call in this spot. i dont think villan ever plays a set like this. i think you'll see pairs almost always.

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

Ehm checking this flop is pretty horrible...Villain doesn't have Ks or Qs unless hes really bad because they re-raise preflop.

Dont think he has a set here unless hes really bad because who check raises 150BBs in with a set? Probably has Js, 10s or 6,7 but if he has a set then unlucky.

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ehm checking this flop is pretty horrible...Villain doesn't have Ks or Qs unless hes really bad because they re-raise preflop.

Dont think he has a set here unless hes really bad because who check raises 150BBs in with a set? Probably has Js, 10s or 6,7 but if he has a set then unlucky.

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You give surprisingly poor advice without any arguments to back it up.

I don't give arguments but my advice isn't poor

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
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check flop.

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Wow, NO.

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Would you be more likely to check at 100BB's deep and more likely to bet at 200BB's+ deep?

I think checking here with 100BB's is good.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd be more inclined to check at 200bb's+ than at 100 bb's.

If you are that deep pot control starts to become a serious business, checking the flop is a good start in archieving this. Especially considering that villain is probably drawing to 2 outs...

At 100 bbs I just want to get the money in with a 3-bet pot.


To OP; I'd probably reluctantly call. But my image is a usually totally nutty (whey I like 3-betting *shrugs*) so I expect QQ+ to always push and TT/JJ occasionally. If you are very nitty with your 3-bets or in general tight it might shift to a fold but a really tough one.
I also bet less on this flop and might check it this deep...

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok that makes sense. If you had QQ here it is a definite flop check right?

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Yeah, I still bet with 100 bb's but probably find a fold if he pushes.

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

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potting a dry flop in a reraised pot is a huge leak by the way

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how much are you betting? or are you checking?

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

If you have to call a shove here. How solid is villian btw? I mean those stats could mean villian is a total lagtard (donk), but he could also be solid. If the guy's solid I'm close to a fold on such a dry board.

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
potting a dry flop in a reraised pot is a huge leak by the way

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how much are you betting? or are you checking?

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eh, fine

CTS gave the same advice to tuff_fish a long while back about potting flops in reraised pots being incorrect. I pmed him about it and he gave me a very good long response, I've since then deleted it

I would usually bet 1/2pot to 2/3 pot here, I reraise a lot preflop and 1/2 pot c-bets are usually good enough to take down reraised pots. Especially if they know you're willing and capable of double barreling.
Also people do stupid things in big pots, large bluffs and long calls. Betting pot size enables them to play more or less perfectly and enables better players to get away from a flop like this with hands like TT-QQ.
He's most likely drawing to 2 outs, he's basically not getting odds to call anything nor does he have reverse implied odds since I'm not thrilled to get 230bb in with 1 pair.

Sorry if it doesn't make sense it's 4am here and I'm very drunk

I would also not check this flop and I'm unsure about the call. It's not a snapcall like a lot of people are making it out to be

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

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I don't give arguments but my advice isn't poor

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Ehm ok, so if u check the flop for pot control which is what im assuming ur doing, what do u do when 7, 6, 3, 8 come? I mean a 4 or 5 isnt a great card either. I can see why but your deep against a donk, bet the flop for value. Checking here isn't going to win you more money from 10s-Ks because he already thinks its the nutz.

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

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The stack size make a huge diffrence in this hand, beacause this would probably have been the most i have ever put into the pot...

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I think you should switch tables if you are not comfortable putting that much money into one pot. Just a thought.

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

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I don't give arguments but my advice isn't poor

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Ehm ok, so if u check the turn for pot control which is what im assuming ur doing, what do u do when 7, 6, 3, 8 come? I mean a 4 or 5 isnt a great card either. I can see why but your deep against a donk, bet the flop for value. Checking here isn't going to win you more money from 10s-Ks because he already thinks its the nutz.

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wtf are you talking about

check turn for pot control? wtf?

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

meant the flop sorry

Re: AA 230bb+ deep
 

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I don't give arguments but my advice isn't poor

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Ehm ok, so if u check the turn for pot control which is what im assuming ur doing, what do u do when 7, 6, 3, 8 come? I mean a 4 or 5 isnt a great card either. I can see why but your deep against a donk, bet the flop for value. Checking here isn't going to win you more money from 10s-Ks because he already thinks its the nutz.

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Those cards are blanks against most of his range.

Also I am not trying to get more value from TT-KK but trying to prevent damage from sets, basically I hate stacking off here and thats why I check the flop.