200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

Villain was running about 55/45/14 through 150 or so hands and loves to fire with air if i appear weak, even two barreling often, or raising smallish turn bets. I had pretty much had it with him, and had the utmost confidence that my K was good. Comments on all streets welcome. I will post results after some comments. See below:

Full Tilt Poker
$1/$2 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
2 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
Hero (SB): $340.7
BB: $443.7

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($3, 2 players)
<font color="red">BB raises to $7</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $21</font>, BB calls $14

<font color="black">Flop:</font> 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($42, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BB bets $25</font>, Hero calls $25

<font color="black">Turn:</font> 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] ($92, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BB bets $60</font>, Hero calls $60

<font color="black">River:</font> 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] ($212, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BB bets $200</font>, Hero calls $200

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

no comments? I've been taking this line against HU LAG's and it has generally been VERY +EV. Does anyone else take this line against maniacs HU?

Ryan

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

craise the turn for value

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

So you opt to checkraise the turn? What hands can we expect to extract value from there? PP's lower than KK and maybe some middle pairs/pair draws?

Ryan

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

I don't like c/ring the turn against a maniac

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

I agree with your play. I guess he had a few outs (or perhaps air). I'd say the all in on the river puts him around 40 percent to have you beat, given your check. So call.

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

I thought that exactly, although I was a little more confident that he was trying to push me off a middle/weak king with his AI river bet. Good to know that I'm not a complete donk. FYI he has 8T offsuit for a rivered backdoor straight.....i went on tilt, but at least i shut off my computer first! lol

Thanks for the replies.

Ryan

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

c/r turn is terrible.

Your line is fine.

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

Unless you know hes capable of making a triple barrel I dont think Im calling the river, your line looks pretty transparent IMO.

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

cwar, if my line is transparent, how do i extract value from my hand? Perhaps I should be bet/folding the river? as an FYI, i suspect his is perfectly capable of a triple barrel, especially a PSB on river to try to shove me off my weak/middle K.

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

If I were playing against you and had a maniac image and its pretty clear from this hand you have a king most of the time and occasionally two pair or a set I dont think Im going to ever triple barrel in this spot because Im thinking you want to make a big call with your kings.

That being said if hes not thinking on this level and just playing a very aggressive game without hand reading the call is probably correct.

If you have reason to believe he is a decent LAG who will understand the basic hand reading and his image I think blocking the river is best. If hes a very good LAG I think your block will be extremely transparent so I would c/f but I think this is the rarest case at 200nl. Finally if hes a just an overly aggro losing player I think checking and calling is OK but if you arent ready to call this bet I think you should block as this player isnt likely to recognize your blocking.

Very interesting hand thanks for sharing it. If you had any read as to what level villain was thinking at I hope you can share it.

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

I don't think villain was thinking beyond the second level, as I was able to induce a "heroic" call by overbetting the pot AI on the river with a pretty big hand, which he interpreted as a bluff (as I expected) and called with second pair mid kicker. I believe, but I may be wrong, that he would have fired a large bet at that river even if he hadn't hit his back door straight. My notes on him consist of hte words "aggro lagtard" and "set him up pf and on flop for large 3 and 4 bets" because he often would check raise the flop or turn and raise my donk leads, along with 3 and 4 betting pf (assumingly thikning that I was 3 betting light given his image). These are the types of players that give me the most trouble HU. I play back at him pf OOP with any reasonable holding, continue bet the flop, and if he raises i am either forced to jam or fold. it just seemed that i could never get any action with my monsters when i donked him, and that when i donked him with nothing he ALWAYS raised. it was quite frustrating as I'm sure you can imagine. Anyways, thanks for the input, I appreciate it.

Ryan

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

Because he made that heroic call you know that he is actively trying to hand read (although not necessarily well) and I think its very unlikely that he will ever try a triple barrel bluff in this spot and I also think you should block the river given your read and fold to a push/raise.

Also, I mean this as constructive criticism but those notes you have are not very useful. The fact that he raises donks and c/raises often are good notes but things like "aggro lagtard" and "set him up pf and on flop" are not. It also seems like you are underestimating his skills quite a bit an aggressive even maniacal style heads up is quite profitable if used correctly.

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

I understand what you're saying about my notes, but, in defense of them, those appeared after my specific notes about raising donk bets and check raising often. They were by no means general notes.

As for his style, it seemed to me that he was being aggro for the sake of being aggro/maniacal to tilt me or get me off my game. It worked (once he caught his BD straight and stacked me 150 BB's deep lol). I may be underestimating his skills, but my gut tells me he is just a maniac who got really lucky a couple times.

I do, however, agree that I should have block bet/folded the river, as it may have prevented a big bluff and/or gotten value out of curious call. Thanks again for the valueable insight. Where do you play? FTP PS?

Ryan

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

90% of the time Im on FT.

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

what levels? is your s/n public?

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

I like everything except the pre-flop re-raise out of position.

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

so you don't play back at these guys with sub-premium hands pf out of position to try to take down the pot since they're likely raising air?

Ryan

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

Is villian SecretofMana?

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

Hes right K8o is not the kind of hand to play back with OOP.

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

No it isnt that Mana guy. I've played him once or twice, he didn't give me fits like the other guy. When I get home from work I'll post the s/n of villain to see if you have any experience with him.

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

cwar, what hands do you choose to play back with? Do you simply wait for mid to high PP's, middle/big suited connectors and two big cards?

Ryan

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

If your getting action like it seems you are theres no reason to be 3-betting light so I would only 3-bet strong aces and mid to large PP's, KQ. If he reacts to your tight 3-betting range then you can loosen up with things like 54s-98s, small PP's, suited aces.

Remember the reason your 3-betting light is either because your villain plays too tightly or for deception so the hands I described work the best because they hit lower boards hard which would generally not be in your 3-betting range if you werent mixing up your play (your making a small mistake early to induce larger mistakes later, things like villain misreading your range and paying you off or folding too much).

K8o is definitely a hand you want to call the raise with but putting more money OOP with the hand is a bad idea, especially against an aggressive villain who is using position. Its going to perform best in small to medium sized pots when you flop a pair thus not good for 3-betting.

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

[ QUOTE ]
Remember the reason your 3-betting light is either because your villain plays too tightly

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry for the slight hijack but could you explain this reasoning please?

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

A lot of player play a very weak tight game or play very weak tight against a 3-bet it takes the initiative.

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

[ QUOTE ]
craise the turn for value

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This is horrible. Basically , it is a frequency thing. Pretty much you must decide how often he is 3-barreling you. I don't mind the calldown but these calldowns are read dependent. Get your read and then go with it.

Also, I would fold PF against this opponent. Sometimes call if he is passive bad postflop, but calling or reraising against an aggressive opponent with K8o is leaking money.

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Remember the reason your 3-betting light is either because your villain plays too tightly

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry for the slight hijack but could you explain this reasoning please?

[/ QUOTE ]
the villain is playing tightly with respect to calling your 3bets. if villain will raise 100% on the button but only call your reraise 10% of the time you should open up your reraising range.

Re: 200NL HU cash FTP vs absolute maniac
 

[ QUOTE ]
K8o is definitely a hand you want to call the raise

[/ QUOTE ]

No it isn't, it's a piece of smelly cheese to be discarded.