Since we\'re folding overpairs
 

Live game. Assume everyone is standard live passive unless I give further information. UTG raises. I don't know anything about him except he's Asian and he just sat down, a couple hours after midnight. Three calls to me with T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the CO and I 3-bet. Button, who is too loose but is one the few players who tries to read hands quickly calls as does the BB, UTG 4-bets and everyone calls. Good game.

7 for 28 SBs. Flop is 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG bets, two calls, I call, button raises, BB calls, UTG 3-bets, two calls, I fold.

Re: Since we\'re folding overpairs
 

I like. Button could have something like 99 for retarded, but UTG almost certainly has you crushed, asian or not.

Sucks that you can't peel here, because 19:1 is a nice price. But I think the combo possiblity of the button capping and the T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dirtiness makes this a fold.

Re: Since we\'re folding overpairs
 

Yup, looks like a good place to run and hide to me. Whas it the right fold?

Re: Since we\'re folding overpairs
 

What do you guys think about raising the flop?

Re: Since we\'re folding overpairs
 

I would raise the flop perhaps, but with so few outs and so much action in this loose game, your fold is correct.

Re: Since we\'re folding overpairs
 

With a bet and two callers behind, all a raise there would do is give the donkey who is holding a 5 the right odds to keep chasing his three out straight draw.....

Re: Since we\'re folding overpairs
 

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What do you guys think about raising the flop?

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Button could have something like 99 for retarded,

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Re: Since we\'re folding overpairs
 

standard. Those who question if they should raise the flop should go back to microlimits.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: Since we\'re folding overpairs
 

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I like. Button could have something like 99 for retarded, but UTG almost certainly has you crushed, asian or not.

Sucks that you can't peel here, because 19:1 is a nice price. But I think the combo possiblity of the button capping and the T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dirtiness makes this a fold.

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what does asian has to do with anything? is there something i don't know?

Re: Since we\'re folding overpairs
 

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standard. Those who question if they should raise the flop should go back to microlimits.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

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lame

Re: Since we\'re folding overpairs
 

did just calling preflop ever cross your mind?

Re: Since we\'re folding overpairs
 

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standard. Those who question if they should raise the flop should go back to microlimits.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

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That's kinda cold, but the strat advice is right. Without a read that these guys are wild, doing anything other than what the OP did would be pretty bad spew in live games.

Re: Since we\'re folding overpairs
 

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did just calling preflop ever cross your mind?

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Yes, but the button looked like she was on the fence about her hand.

Re: Since we\'re folding overpairs
 

Just a general point; there's a strong motif on this sub-forum that has players capping with TT or JJ against UTG raisers and/or in crowded fields then retracting like a frightened turtle in the face of flop action.

This is a stellar flop for pocket tens. Why cap if you can't continue with this flop. In fact, why get involved when you know the range of an unknown UTG player generally is way ahead of tens.

Yes, the three callers justify a cold call for set value, though the button raise just wiped that out.

The flop fold is fine, but why overpay to get to that point? I hate this sort of preflop play.

Re: Since we\'re folding overpairs
 

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Just a general point; there's a strong motif on this sub-forum that has players capping with TT or JJ against UTG raisers and/or in crowded fields then retracting like a frightened turtle in the face of flop action.

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Are you reading the same hand? Who capped what here? Also, there's a lot of information in capping and still getting bet into.

Re: Since we\'re folding overpairs
 

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Are you reading the same hand? Who capped what here? Also, there's a lot of information in capping and still getting bet into.

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I was speaking generally. In the last week or so there's been a lot of examples of capping with these hands full ring against EP (unknown) raisers.

A lot can be said for taking a more conservative approach with TT. You've described the game as passive, and that would justify a cold call. I don't like building this pot here. You're playing tens here largely for set value. Why shut anyone out behind you in an already crowded field. why allow UTG to make it four?

You flopped an outstanding board and got pushed off. That may have happened for two small bets instead of five (or maybe the button pops it anyway).

Re: Since we\'re folding overpairs
 

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Are you reading the same hand? Who capped what here? Also, there's a lot of information in capping and still getting bet into.

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I was speaking generally. In the last week or so there's been a lot of examples of capping with these hands full ring against EP (unknown) raisers.

A lot can be said for taking a more conservative approach with TT. You've described the game as passive, and that would justify a cold call. I don't like building this pot here. You're playing tens here largely for set value. Why shut anyone out behind you in an already crowded field. why allow UTG to make it four?

You flopped an outstanding board and got pushed off. That may have happened for two small bets instead of five (or maybe the button pops it anyway).

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Did you read my response to Bob? It's worth it to get the button IMO, enough where I scrapped my plan to coldcall. I improve my chances to win the button and hopefully drive out the blinds and I get more flexibility on a bad flop as well as having the opportunity to handread fairly cleanly if I get 4-bet or if I get called. Further, the coldcallers' ranges are literally two cards.

Two, you're ignoring a ton of information from the preflop action and you're wrong about the board. It's a terrible board and I'm stuck in a very bad reverse implied odds situation. There is a lot more to big pairs than hoping to flop an overpair or a set.