Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

(Posting here since this is the more appropriate place for this discussion prompted by a question in The Lounge)

Mat,

I actually did help by giving Ed a lot of specific suggestions.

I was not willing to spend any extensive time on that without somewhat reasonable compensation, though I'd happily help out at below-market prices just because I like this place.

Here's some free advice that could make the site millions.

1: Host blogs for 2+2ers

2: Have tournament and cash game tracking, like pocketfives and highstakes.nu.

3: Have a hand converter as part of the site like the tons of ones out there.

4: Have a hand database like pokerhand.org

5: Have a revenue-share marketplace for users to sell their videos or other products, similar to stuff being sold at cardrunners.com

There are many other things you could do, but these are a number of things that would directly increase page views, site loyalty/stickiness, and revenues to 2+2.

Not apples to apples, but here's a fashion site that is aggressively doing the types of things that I would do if I were running 2+2.

They just raised $18.5 million dollars in growth capital and are valued at $150 million.

Working linky.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

This link should work.

Venture Beat - Glam raises $18.5 million

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

Diablo,

You make some very great suggestions there, but I really doubt they will be implemented. The 2+2 management seems really lazy about improving this site. The forums have been very popular for several years, yet virtually nothing has improved, except for the addition of the magazine, which has a very amateurish layout and design. And look at the front page; it looks like it was designed in 1996, and very well may have been.

Another big mistake that 2+2 made was not doing more to capitalize on Fossilman's WSOP win and getting him to play more of an official role on 2+2.

Worst of all, 2+2 could have easily hired, for a small fee, some of the many extremely talented people on this site with a lot of time on their hands to help improve the site and implement things like you desribed.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

these are all great ideas. if only 1 or 2 of those are halfway properly realized, it would be a huge added value to the forum, from a users perspective. there are loads of programmers on the forums, myself included, that im sure would be more than willing to help.

im not sure how 1-4 could help raise money though aside from the added traffic.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

I would think that just increasing page-views and site-stickyness in the way ElD suggests would bring in more sales.

More views = More clicks on sales links and banners.

Increasing traffic even more could also allow them to raise advertising rates perhaps. Or cause a greater demand at the current rates.

Lots of possibilities.

ElD makes some good suggestions.

I would add that as they do all this stuff they would want to re-design the site to better incorporate the sales pages.

As it is now, when browsing the forums I think a lot of people don't realize there is a little 'books' link at the bottom. Also not sure how many people have zero awareness of the classifieds. Stuff like that.

Making that stuff more prominent via a banner-ad for their own products while surfing the forums could be considered.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

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Increasing traffic even more could also allow them to raise advertising rates perhaps. Or cause a greater demand at the current rates.

Lots of possibilities.

[/ QUOTE ]
RSS = More traffic

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

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1: Host blogs for 2+2ers

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Pardon my ignant, but what function does this serve?

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

[ QUOTE ]
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1: Host blogs for 2+2ers

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Pardon my ignant, but what function does this serve?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hits here that currently go elsewhere. Easy for users to find interesting blogs, etc.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

These are some awesome ideas.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

Mat, David, Mason,
Per usual, The Masked One makes an excellent post. This website is good but can be great. Just like a poker player must adapt to changing conditions, so should a business. Don't be complacent, don't be satisfied, be proactive. There are plenty of people willing to help out, whether it be with ideas or technical expertise. Take advantage.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

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1: Host blogs for 2+2ers

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Pardon my ignant, but what function does this serve?

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If nothing else a blog section will give Mason a place to post his sexual exploits.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

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1: Host blogs for 2+2ers

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Pardon my ignant, but what function does this serve?

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If nothing else a blog section will give Dan Bright a place to post Skalanasky's sexual exploits.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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1: Host blogs for 2+2ers

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Pardon my ignant, but what function does this serve?

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Hits here that currently go elsewhere. Easy for users to find interesting blogs, etc.

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I understand that part. I wondering what value clicks have in and of themselves if they aren't going to an explicitly commercial (e.g., "buy this") product. Is this used to attract advertisers?

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1: Host blogs for 2+2ers

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Pardon my ignant, but what function does this serve?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hits here that currently go elsewhere. Easy for users to find interesting blogs, etc.

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I understand that part. I wondering what value clicks have in and of themselves if they aren't going to an explicitly commercial (e.g., "buy this") product. Is this used to attract advertisers?

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well, if the people with blogs are smart enough to use google adsense or somesuch they are getting paid for blog views. if 2p2 causes their blog to get more views, they get more money and there could be a deal worked out where clicks from 2p2 causes the blog owner to give some of the adsense beedogs back to 2p2.

btw, these ideas are fantastic imo.

rj

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

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im not sure how 1-4 could help raise money though aside from the added traffic.

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added traffic=$$$.

rj

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

We're hiring. Send proposals.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

if diablo undertakes this, i will work with him if we are paid some % of revenue increase attributable to our actions. i would require no other payment. i would imagine that as a team diablo and i have the best web/revenue increasing credentials you could find - not just on 2p2 but anywhere.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

[ QUOTE ]
We're hiring. Send proposals.

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Mat,

Regarding this, i.e. getting someone to do website design, I would like to mention something if it hasn't been brought up. And that is that person after presumably showing you a demo of a new design, will still have to correct/change some things for you that don't get noticed on the first go around. Which will best be done with someone you trust and who has FTP access to the site to make changes in the link list at left for example. Same thing would be helpful with Dynasty and the magazine so he could get it up and make quick format changes and correct errors quickly on his own.

If instead, they always have to go through Chuck and have him make every minute change, it just takes a long time for every little thing and makes it a hassle. I'm not saying anything against Chuck at all here, and don't know how your server arrangement is setup, as in on the same one with his site, or a different one. Obviously he might have qualms with giving FTP access to some 3rd party in a different part of the country if his own book site is on the same server, although I imagine passwording and good security could allow such a person to only access the 2+2 site, possibly even barring him from making changes to the database, which wouldn't seem necessary for site design changes.

I'm no expert on web design at all, but have put up some sites (I'm not volunteering because I lack enough expertise and certainly have little eye for design), but know that you have to make lots of quick little changes sometimes, preferably through a quick FTP transfer program and not having to republish the whole site with MS Front Page or something like that.

But you also have to provide such a web programmer/designer with a site layout that maximizes functionality both for users and what you wish to accomplish.

As I said you might already have considered all this so sorry if that's the case.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

A market for coaching would also be a great idea (and fall under diablo's #5).

It would be pretty simple to create a centralized database with a few basic criteria to search on. Something as easy as drop down boxes to select limits, games and price range would really improve the product a lot imo. Include a feedback section along the lines of ebay for past customers. There was a user-driven version of this in the MHSH forum a while back (might still be there). An admin could definitely create a much more usable and valuable product.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

2p2 has great potential for social networking. It seems a lot of posters have met each other through 2p2 and become friends. Plus people are drawn here by interest in a common social activity.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

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These are some awesome ideas.

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Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

Astute ideas presented clearly, and with no remuneration attached certainly deserving of at least a Thank You.

I could write a blog that would straighten the ass hairs on a monkey. I just want to chuck that into the void and see how far it falls and how loud the splat is when it finally hits God on the back of the head.

Monetizing is a word but I find it distasteful and awkward. Money-spinning (straight from the OED, meaning: very profitable) would, I think, work better and add more panache to the post title.

By the way, kabassou is a word. Definition: Any of several naked-tailed armadillos of the genus Cabassous. This is important information that you will need to know the next time you play poker. Trust me – it will be very useful.

-Zeno

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

econophile,

Poker-centric social networking is definitely another strong stickiness-increasing measure that could be taken.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

"This is the true story, of seven strangers (David Sklansky, Brandi Hawbaker, Dominic, RJPITTM, fluffpop, Fast_Food_Knight, Ray Zee), picked to live in a house, work together and have their lives taped, to find out what happens, when people stop being polite, and start getting real. The Real World, 2+2"

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

sam,

Obv Big Steve or fsduck would have to be there.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

With that many 2p2 girls you definitely need Anacardo as well. Probably slot him in instead of dominic.

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Cardo will last on the show for like 2 eps before his rage gets the better of him and he challenges David to a fight because that's how men settle things.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

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We're hiring. Send proposals.

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Meh, don't hold your breath - I PM'ed Mat last summer about doing #3 for free. Had a working prototype (Stars+Party) in Javascript (virtually zero server load once the page is loaded and cached) but never heard anything back.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

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sam,

Obv Big Steve or fsduck would have to be there.

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Ha ha. Correct!

We also need a San Diego Brad/quick to throw hands type, too.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

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With that many 2p2 girls you definitely need Anacardo as well. Probably slot him in instead of dominic.

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stabn - We should probably remove the other male slot altogether, and get fluffpop in there.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

sam,

I think this merits a "Construct 2+2 Real World House" thread in OOT.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

a 2p2 real world house would be cool around WSOP time.

I'm sure many are renting in Vegas for the period anyway. Get them together and see how it goes. Daily reports are expected

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

these are great ideas, but I think 2+2 is better served by trying to figure out how to decrease critical mass in it's most popular forums and create other forums devoid of critical mass.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

El Diablo these are excellent ideas and a great thread. I love every single one of them. I think it's really about time that 2+2 implement some of these ideas. A lot of other forums are moving forward and being a lot more innovative. It's time for the best community on the internet to move up.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

Great ideas here. I think that a real strength that 2+2 has as a business is the loyalty of their customer base. Here you have customers that are taking an active interest in the improval of a business that is not their own. I hope that the 2+2 team realises what a valuable assest this is to have.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

How many people on here would subscribe to "The 2+2 E-mail Newsletter"? Lots and lots and lots more. And that's forcefed money making. I don't even have to do anything except open an e-mail THAT I WANT TO RECEIVE, THAT I CAN'T WAIT TO RECEIVE. I can be working in Dreamweaver on a website and see an outlook popup that the new 2+2 Newsletter has came in and I'd stop what I was doing to read it.

Edit - and the reason that i want to recieve it and can't wait to receive it was mentioned by the poster above me. The 2+2 brand.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

Mat and mods,

How many of the ideas in this thread have been previously suggested/discussed in the mod forum?

I'm frankly a little surprised at the lack of mod participation in this thread. Seems like a lot of mods get up in arms and spend tons of energy over stuff like whether or not to split off a 2+2 Comic Book forum, yet imo they would be much more helpful to 2+2 focusing on real traffic and revenue-enhancing ideas like many in this thread.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

I'm interested in the blogging idea, but haven't had time to figure out how it could be done to make it interesting enough. If everyone did it for example, 99.99% wouldn't even be read by anyone. I guess if it were you El D. or one of the ladies or real ballas, then yeah, it would be cool and widely read.

I'll think on it more.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

Also I think they need to impliment a community portal content management solution.

There's guys in the money making forum who can't even spell HTML that have better designed sites than 2+2 because of the capabilities of CMS today.

Re: Monetizing/making 2+2 better
 

db,

You're not even thinking of the right things. I don't want to attack you, but as I've said before, most of your suggestions in these matters (forum splits, etc) show a complete lack of awareness about how to build community and revenue in an online media property. 2+2 offering blog-hosting, for example, would be primarily as a community-building and stickiness thing, not a page view driver (though that would be a secondary effect to some degree). I think the best thing you could possibly do if you really wanted to help is step back for a while and just listen to what people with experience and understanding in these matters have to say, then once some good plans have been put in place, volunteer yourself to help support them.