2 pair vs. hotmark, facing a 4-bet on the turn
 

Background:

He's been his usual very aggressive self, and before this hand has been pushing me around a bit. He's probably gotten me off the best hand a couple of times with big raises, and may view me as weak postflop. Hotmark is the cutoff.

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $10/$20
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $3836.80
UTG+1: $2030
MP1: $2321
MP2: $2639
MP3: $2844
CO: $4587.40
Button: $4282
SB: $2831
Hero: $2814.60

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
5 folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $77.7</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($165.4, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($165.4, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $150</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $450</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $1150</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises all-in $4509.7</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero ???</font>.

Re: 2 pair vs. hotmark, facing a 4-bet on the turn
 

lol fullringaments

Re: 2 pair vs. hotmark, facing a 4-bet on the turn
 

I think I just call the turn. Too likely you've run into QK or JJ or something. But then again he's been pushing you around a lot.. soo.. I think if your going to 3-bet him on the turn you are going to have to call a push.

Re: 2 pair vs. hotmark, facing a 4-bet on the turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think if your going to 3-bet him on the turn you are going to have to call a push.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is silly: a 3-bet is bad but calling the push would be even worse.

Re: 2 pair vs. hotmark, facing a 4-bet on the turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
this is silly: a 3-bet is bad but calling the push would be even worse.

[/ QUOTE ]

these were my thoughts, but i have never played w/ hotmark or play full ring.

Re: 2 pair vs. hotmark, facing a 4-bet on the turn
 

Like you say, Hotmark is usually very aggressive, so let him bet. On the turn, there is $160 in the pot and you have almost $3000 in your stack, so you might not want to try getting it all in with two pair [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]. Calling his $450 raise and check-calling river seems reasonable, since he is fully capable of bluffing river with a busted flush draw/nothing.

Re: 2 pair vs. hotmark, facing a 4-bet on the turn
 

I was going to post this hand also, good playing with you. I will give my ideas after you post results

Re: 2 pair vs. hotmark, facing a 4-bet on the turn
 

fold he has A 10 beat

Re: 2 pair vs. hotmark, facing a 4-bet on the turn
 

It would probably be closer if hero has JJ. Even against hotmark who could be bluffing here with some combodraw(sometimes air?) I would still prefer mucking because with 2p you are drawing very thin and his shove is so big.

Re: 2 pair vs. hotmark, facing a 4-bet on the turn
 

he never just has air here.

Results
 

I called, getting about 3900:1700 odds, which in hindsight is not enough, because I think he seldom, if ever, is putting in that last raise without a hand that beats me.

He had AJ.

Re: 2 pair vs. hotmark, facing a 4-bet on the turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
he never just has air here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Moi?

***** Hand History for Game 5397322878 *****
$5000 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, October 26, 23:46:17 ET 2006
Table Table 124343 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 2: hotmark777 ( $11311 )
Seat 1: Nolyx ( $10940.40 )
Seat 7: ShockHerB ( $1704.26 )
Seat 3: postmanden ( $5082.96 )
Seat 9: tigger129 ( $745 )
tigger129 posts small blind [$25].
Nolyx posts big blind [$50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to hotmark777 [ 8d Ad ]
hotmark777 raises [$177.70].
postmanden folds.
ShockHerB folds.
tigger129 folds.
Nolyx calls [$127.70].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 4c, Kc, 3h ]
Nolyx checks.
hotmark777 bets [$300].
Nolyx raises [$900].
hotmark777 raises [$2500].
Nolyx calls [$1900].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Tc ]
Nolyx checks.
hotmark777 checks.
** Dealing River ** [ Th ]
Nolyx bets [$3500].
hotmark777 is all-In.
Nolyx is all-In.
Nolyx shows [ Jc, 8c ] a flush, king high.
hotmark777 shows [ 8d, Ad ] a pair of tens.
hotmark777 wins $370.60 from side pot #1 with a pair of tens.
Nolyx wins $21900.80 from the main pot with a flush, king high.

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 2 pair vs. hotmark, facing a 4-bet on the turn
 

Tough hand, but imo by the time you stick half your stack in on the turn and getting 2:1, there's quite a few hands from specifically Hotmark you are ahead of that I don't think calling is that bad... then again, I'm a station.

Kirk