$600 PLO Balls Deep
 

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $6 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($289)
Hero ($2173.10)
SB ($1552.80)
BB ($341.65)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $21</font>, SB calls $18.

Flop: ($42) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Crawf*Nuts checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $48</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $150</font>, Hero calls $102.

Turn: ($342) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $222</font>, Hero ?

Villain is 20/0 but that's only over 30 hands. So far he's been too loose postflop with marginal hands.

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

If he's realllly loose he might be chasing the same flush, and if the heart comes on the river, you'd have him beat.

Considering he only called your pf raise, It's entirely possible he has flopped a set or two pair. I guess I'd fold, but I'd do it with a mad look on my face [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

I would prolly call the turn.
But I would like to have a read that he would take this line with like 89xx hearts.
I would prolly fold a river that completes the straight if he leads into it figuring I was either drawn out on or was behind from the start.
Eagles, what do you do if the Ts or Js comes on the river?

Also, I don't particularly like your flop bet.

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

I fold the turn, so many rivers that just cost you more money.

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

Villian's got a boat here something like 90% of the time. We've got 3-6 outs, and that certainly doesn't justify calling a 2/3 pot bet. Flop's fine though, I pot it 100% of the time in this situation.

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

Anyone saying to put more money in this pot is mistaken.

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

I think this is a wierd play for villian to take with two pair, and I think it's a combo draw or [censored] alot more then we're giving credit for. If he has any of those hands + an underfull, he's going to be pretty unhappy about your call on the turn, and you should get a cheap showdown fairly often. A bet on the river here means he's either really dumb or you're really beat.

It seems to me that he'd have to be a really fast player to pot raise this spot against a preflop raiser with two pair... even top two in this spot is generally a call, to see if you'll keep betting, at least against most of the people I play against. That'd have to be read dependant.

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

very very easy fold.

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

I dont think its as easy a fold as some people are suggesting. Villan could be easily have a straight plus lower flush draw here o a hand like 6 7 plus a straight/flush draw. Given the fact that we have position I might call the turn and re-evaluate the river but I dont disagree with a fold either. It depends a lot on what you think villan is capable of on the river and on how aggressive he plays draws on he flop.

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

Reraise hoping he misclicks the 'fold' button.

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

You could be getting your money drawing very thin, and how do you feel about calling a pot sized bet on the river if you hit your flush? No I think a fold, I have called players down in similar positions and nearly always regretted it, if he is not to be beating you now he is not only be a pretty loose player but also a bit of a fish.

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

I don't think this is an easy fold at all, tho i think fold is probably more correct than other lines. depends on villain and recent history. his weakish lead often means he can be pushed off later, as wraps 2/3rd sets top/bottom are all in his range

-g

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

I just want to pint out villian didnt raise full pot on flop and we are deep. I think I call here trying to get it checked down on river, and repot some rivers if he weak lead them. (overcards).

- B

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think its as easy a fold as some people are suggesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont agree.

[ QUOTE ]
Villan could be easily have a straight plus lower flush draw here o a hand like 6 7 plus a straight/flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

The board pairs, villian bets 222$ at it, and you think hes on a draw? Unless villian has gone broke every other hand before this, there is no reason to believe hes a complete idiot or has some fiscal deathwish.

[ QUOTE ]
Given the fact that we have position I might call the turn and re-evaluate the river but I dont disagree with a fold either. It depends a lot on what you think villan is capable of on the river and on how aggressive he plays draws on he flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont mean to sound harsh but this isnt holdem, and if you dont give people some credit for the hands they represent, you will be broke, fast.

There is almost zero chance he didnt flop a set of 7's or 6's judging from the flop bet, and even if hes soooooper loose you can safely put him on A7xx or A6xx, where x is a kicker thats almost statistically certain to beat the piss out of anything hero has.

Hero realistically has 5 outs (providing villian has a set of 6's or 7's, and has 3 outs if villian flopped TTP etc). If he makes his flush, its even harder to get away from the inevitable bet on the river.

Folding is the right play.

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

paired board, 3 on flop, and people are still hoppping their flush draw might be good. WTF???

u might have 3 outs u might be dead he's bad post flop catch him another time

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

Do people really think his flop c/r is only 77/66/A7/A6 there are so many huge draws he can c/r that I'm beating. He's giving me good odds there are 3-4 river cards that give me the nuts were really deep and he's prob checking a lot of rivers to me. Not to mention I already have a read that he's too loose postflop and this has been a pretty agressive 6 max game. I feel like folding here is pretty bad.
-eagleskickass(I'm on pudge's comp)

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

Im not saying its not a fold, in this spot without a read I would probably lean toward a fold and if I was out of position or this were a full ring game I wouldnt give it a seconds thought however given that we are playing short handed with position I dont think is an auto fold and deserves some thought and I dont think that you can say that there is zero chance hero's draw is live. Also I think many of the posters reason for folding is wrong.

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

Isn't a huge draw going to c/r full? Foe check-raised less than pot following your c-bet on a A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] board. You hold both A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. This is a strong representation of either a set or two pair testing the pre-flop raiser.

I think it's likely you're beat on the turn. The more interesting question for me is whether it matters. Foe's turn bet is consistent with an underfull both extracting value from your exact holding and keeping the pot under control when there's still almost 200BB behind. A raise by you would be sexy but hard for me to pull the trigger on without knowing foe better, especially since you've already defined your hand for a thinking opponent, and he no longer has to worry a set-over-set scenario.

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

Having only played 30 hands against the guy, I fold here. I really hate playing big pots without a really big hand or a good read. Against an unknown, I would expect to see A6 or A7 here a majority of the time, 66 or 77 a bit less frequently, and air/some draw (which is effectively air at this point) the rest of the time. (say 65%, 25%, 10%).

This is definitely a need a read to continue hand for me. I think 3 betting the flop is interesting, too, but you have a real problem if he 4 bets, and if you would play AA with the heart draw by smooth calling the flop, this line is no good. Again, not something I would do (3-betting the flop) without a good read.

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

the bottom line as i see it is where and how one chooses to risk ones money.

even if hero *is* drawing live, i dont see equity in not folding. the world doesnt end if he folds the best hand. in fact, it encourages villain to tighten the noose a bit and play that super aggro BS again and again until he walks straight into the nuts and gets felted.

its my experience that in PLO, the way to win the war is to bleed fools like villain when you have them where you want them, instead of risking half (or all of) your stack on a hugely improbable draw that you would *never* call down on someone you knew was competent.

even morons catch hands, and one of the hallmarks of someone new to PLO is the inability to get the hell out of the way when youre at risk because you know someone is an absolute [censored] player. position + reads mean exactly nothing on this board compared to the stark reality it represents the vast majority of times.

the only reason to call here is if you need to dump some cash for tax reasons as i see it, or of course for meta game.

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

i don't know too many advanced things about omaha, but i would consider this a very basic and trivial fold. i mean, u are drawing to flush outs which are likely tainted and 2 3's which may be tainted and lastly you have only 3 outs to the nuts.

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

He's also betting less than the full pot. It feels like he hasn't filled up.
The key is Eagles' read that he is too loose pf and goes too far postflop.
I still think the worst cards for you on the river are straight cards. If he bets pot then, I would prolly fold.
If call turn, then def call any heart river or if you fill up.
The worst is like a Q offsuit. It would be hard to tell then if he was bluffing without having been in these spots with him before.
Having said that, pot is laying 2:5 on the turn, so counting hearts, eights, threes, you have like 13 outs, tainted, but you are good right now against a double barrelled semi-bluff which we have all done. So given implied odds, just calling trying to hit those is good.

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

Does anybody like a repot on the flop? Seems to me like it would make it a very tough call/push for your opponent even if he has 777.

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

I think you are drawing live a lot on the turn, but I would still fold. If I knew villain was very bad I would call.

I sometimes 3 bet the flop, calling is also good though.

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
I fold the turn, so many rivers that just cost you more money.

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I think sometimes raising here is very important.

Re: $600 PLO Balls Deep
 

Raising small (500/600) can never be that bad, but folding is ok too if you are not specifically trying to kill the villain. But I do not like calling at all ; you may be winning or drawing live, but only 4 outs are clean, and you have no read to the river agressivity of your opponent. So if you do not want to fold, very rarely call ; raise instead, and the rest of the hand will be much easier to play.