A hypothetical... best way to proceed.
 

A big debate has been going on about how this hand was played, or could've been played better, by the SB. I've posted the 1st part of the hand. Really the primary debate was whether a call or raise by the SB would have been the best play. Further info regarding playing styles, tendencies, etc. weren't available yet.(I realize that it is very low stakes, however there is a learning process for everyone. I had nothing to do with the hand except for follow up discussion).

Full Tilt Poker Game #1456825334: Table Aristotle - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:40:36 ET - 2006/12/22
Seat 1: SB ($23.90)
Seat 2: BB ($35.30)
Seat 3: UTG ($25.50)
Seat 4: UTG+1 ($25.35)
Seat 5: MP1 ($54.55)
Seat 6: MP2 ($23.15)
Seat 7: CO ($19.60)
Seat 8: Button ($25)
SB posts the small blind of $0.10
BB posts the big blind of $0.25
Button posts $0.25
The button is in seat #9


Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is SB with :t [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] :9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls, Button checks, Hero ?..

What is his best play?

Re: A hypothetical... best way to proceed.
 

check, you want alot of people with a hand like this.

Re: A hypothetical... best way to proceed.
 

Call. Suited connectors play best in multiway pots which you've got.

Re: A hypothetical... best way to proceed.
 

complete.

Re: A hypothetical... best way to proceed.
 

He got alot of flack for his play, I think primarily because of the result of the hand(it's always easier to critique for some once all the info is out there). I'll post the resulting play in a bit.

Re: A hypothetical... best way to proceed.
 

I complete this almost invariably. My tables stack off in unraised pots frequently though.

Re: A hypothetical... best way to proceed.
 

Definitely complete.

Like someone said earlier, suited connectors play better in a multi-way pot.

Re: A hypothetical... best way to proceed.
 

I absolutely hate playing drawing hands in a raised pot OOP...so just complete.

Re: A hypothetical... best way to proceed.
 

complete for reasons mentioned already.

Re: A hypothetical... best way to proceed.
 

Only reason to raise is if Hero has a solid TAG or weak-tight image to the table, and take down the pot right here. That is, if Hero is a 10/8/3 and plays regularly with some of these players its time to use the reputation to scoop up a nice pot preflop with a hand that might get lucky if you're called anyway. Given that this is 25NL, I say the call is the right thing to do. Flop goot!

Re: A hypothetical... best way to proceed.
 

I advocated just the completion myself, with an occasional raise if I know my opponents well. One critiquer gave him all kinds of flack for not raising here, which I still don't agree with. Here's how it unfolded, pretty crazy to be honest(the limping hands and the outcomes).

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is SB with :t :9
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls, Button checks, Hero completes, BB checks

Flop: (5 players) [J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, CO bets $1.25, Button raises $2.50, Hero calls, BB folds, MP1 calls, CO raises $10, Button folds, Hero raises all-in $23.65, MP1 calls $21.15, CO calls all-in $9.35.

Turn: (3 Players) 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
River: (3 players) 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Result: (3 players) Hero shows 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Straight Jack high, MP1 shows A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Straight Jack high, CO shows J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Straight Jack high

Just an extremely strange hand overall, w/the JJ and AK [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] BOTH limping in. The hero in follow up discussion seemed to get the biggest brunt of the flack from one guy for NOT raising the suited connector OOP. Was told he played it horribly [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: A hypothetical... best way to proceed.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Was told he played it horribly [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
By the guys with JJ and AKs? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Think hero will see a flop after raising here?
Take any advice at the 25NL tables with dollops of salt. If they're good enough to coach why are they still playing micros? [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Re: A hypothetical... best way to proceed.
 

Actually the discussion was in a different forum. The hero posted it as one of the craziest hands he'd ever been involved in and a member went on a tirade about how badly he played it, specifically by not raising to gain info prfelop. In this situation with the number of active players, IMO, would have basically just been a bluff/semi-bluff OOP.

Re: A hypothetical... best way to proceed.
 

[ QUOTE ]
a member went on a tirade about how badly he played it, specifically by not raising to gain info prfelop.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's retarded. Completing is so standard it's not even worth talking about.

Re: A hypothetical... best way to proceed.
 

The hand is a pretty good example why you complete.
Flop the straight and other players that hit the flop somehow will get their money in regardless. No need to raise up front OOP.
Raising will take down the pot sometiomes but this strongly depends on players and image. I'm willing to say that at those tables the raise doesn't take down the money preflop very often. Add to it that people limp good hands sometimes and you are OOP and I don't see a reason to raise here.

But say you play 6max on the button with this hand and one limper from EP I'm raising it up to 5xBB almost 100% of the time.

Maybe I'm not too objective because I'm playing at tables were I stack ppl with AJ on this kind of flop.

Re: A hypothetical... best way to proceed.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
a member went on a tirade about how badly he played it, specifically by not raising to gain info prfelop.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's retarded. Completing is so standard it's not even worth talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, it was talked about, and talked about and then talked about some more, lol. Here's the thread for your reading enjoyment.

http://pokerforums.fulltiltpoker.com...04&start=0

Re: A hypothetical... best way to proceed.
 

That is a crazy hand...but our hero is the only one who played it "correctly", if there is such a thing. but the preflop limp by ak was nowhere nearly as bad as the limp with jacks. He is crazy lucky he didn't get stacked.

Re: A hypothetical... best way to proceed.
 

Like I've been fighting for with this hand for days at FT is that calling is the best play here.

Now I have a hypothetical change to this, which has been part of my argument to the poster arguing for a raise. this hand was played in a ring game where most of the stacks were around 100BBs. The poster arguing for the raise was primarily a tournament player. If this hand was ina tournament and the stacks were smaller say stacks between 10-25 BBs typical of middle tournaments, would the advice be different? Would a raise be appropriate here or a fold?

Re: A hypothetical... best way to proceed.
 

I happened to be the hero in this hand. Looking back on it I should have led out on the flop, but as far as the arguement went on the other forum about the preflop play, it was just a guy that won't admit he doesn't know how to admit he is wrong. The same guy who was advocating raising from the SB also caps with 33 in the BB after 2 EP players and the button 3bet in the FLHE level of a HORSE game.

Re: A hypothetical... best way to proceed.
 

[ QUOTE ]
The same guy who was advocating raising from the SB also caps with 33 in the BB after 2 EP players and the button 3bet in the FLHE level of a HORSE game.

[/ QUOTE ]
PLEASE do not argue with him about this [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]