Stop playing when you are up
 

This has been happening to me for a long time.
Poker is a long term game, which means that if you are winning player, more you play (assuming u play good) = more money.

However, I find myself "afraid to lose it back" and I stop playing after being up 3 buy-ins or so.

Just now, I'm up 4 buy-ins in 1 hour and I feel like I need to stop right now and finish the day +$$.

How can I change this mindset?

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

I agree with those that say that this isn't a good general strategy. However,when you are learning and building your roll and your confidence, i agree with it.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

I have the same problem. This sucks because you can't put in a lot of hands this way. Whenever I'm up about 2 buy-ins I quit the day ahead.
The only way I can play a long session is when I get stuck some buy-ins in the beginning and trying to get even.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

poker is one big session, individual sessions are arbitrary and have little meaning. Keep this mindset and you should be fine.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

play for certain amounts of time. stick to your schedule. problem solved.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

what if the game is really profitable? Leaving it would be a bad decision.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

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what if the game is really profitable? Leaving it would be a bad decision.

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Well to be honest that applies more to live than online in my opinion. Online a table can change in 5 minutes so in alot of cases i don't think much will be missed by leaving on time.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

so when it changes, leave. It might not. Leaving a game for anything other then being emotionally attached to it (i.e. chasing losses) or lack of a good edge; whether that's because you're tired or your opponents are too good, or you might gave a bad image etc. is never a good reason. O.k. so leaving because you have other plans is a valid reason too, but you get my main point.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

Yeah sure.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

The stock market is one long session too. I remember a 90 y/o guy still trading on Wall St. Week ten years ago.

However, in the market we take profits periodically...

What's wrong with ending sessions with a profit after putting in a certain amount of time? There will be a bell curve in each session and if you overstay, you will give back profits.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

because if you're up that much you are in a good mindset and playing your best game most likely...don't stop when you have a an edge. We're gamblers, we push our edges until we fall off of them.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

I should have qualified my post for NL cash games where the tide can turn quickly.

In limit cash games you can grind it out until your eyes fall out...

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

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This has been happening to me for a long time.
Poker is a long term game, which means that if you are winning player, more you play (assuming u play good) = more money.

However, I find myself "afraid to lose it back" and I stop playing after being up 3 buy-ins or so.


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What, forever?

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

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I should have qualified my post for NL cash games where the tide can turn quickly.

In limit cash games you can grind it out until your eyes fall out...

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right they can turn quickly, but so what? What difference does it make. The next hand is the next hand. Whether it's played immediately after the last one, or in a week.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

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I should have qualified my post for NL cash games where the tide can turn quickly.

In limit cash games you can grind it out until your eyes fall out...

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right they can turn quickly, but so what? What difference does it make. The next hand is the next hand. Whether it's played immediately after the last one, or in a week.

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If you have say $75 and a $25 table and there is one other $50 to $75 stack at the table, i'd happily quit and come back with $25 another day. I don't want to lose 2-3 buyins in one hand.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

that's more to do with bankroll management. If you can't afford to have $75 at a table then I'd say that's a good reason to stop. Unless you are online where it is very easy to take your chips off the table. "Going south" I think is the expression.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

I think the majority of players have a big leak in their game when playing with a stack consisting mostly of winnings from that session. Simply put, they don't value that money as much as their buyin, and as a result tend to play it poorly.

If you have this leak, stopping when you're up to the point where it kicks in is a very +EV move. I know for a fact that I had it for years, and made a policy of stopping any time I had 3 buyins. Is it an artificial solution to a stupid leak? Sure. But it put more money in my pocket, and money kept by artificial means spends just fine. Often times I'd be back in that same game 2 hours later with a fresh buyin.

In recent years I've managed to plug the leak, mostly, so I tend to play longer in winning sessions.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

as long as you realise it's a stupid leak then that's fine, if you're making -EV moves when you reach a certain amount of money then you should definitely quite, but should work on stopping making those moves

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

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as long as you realise it's a stupid leak then that's fine, if you're making -EV moves when you reach a certain amount of money then you should definitely quite, but should work on stopping making those moves

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It may be a "stupid" leak, but pretty much every player I've ever met had some degree of it. I think it's almost as fundamental a psychoogical phenomena as tilt and the defense is basically the same.
After all, when you're on tilt, pretty much everyone agrees that the correct thing to do is get up from the table either temporarily or permanently until your state of mind improves. No one reccomends you continue to play tilted, no matter how good the game might be in theory. I don't see this as any different, really.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

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as long as you realise it's a stupid leak then that's fine, if you're making -EV moves when you reach a certain amount of money then you should definitely quite, but should work on stopping making those moves

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It may be a "stupid" leak, but pretty much every player I've ever met had some degree of it. I think it's almost as fundamental a psychoogical phenomena as tilt and the defense is basically the same.
After all, when you're on tilt, pretty much everyone agrees that the correct thing to do is get up from the table either temporarily or permanently until your state of mind improves. No one reccomends you continue to play tilted, no matter how good the game might be in theory. I don't see this as any different, really.

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If everyone jumped off the roof would you? It is exactly opposite of quiting while you are on tilt. When you are on tilt you are playing bad, when you are up the assumption is you are playing well (or getting smacked in the face with the deck) quiting in the former is a great idea, in the later is a leak. There are situations when it isn't a bad leak; like when your PT session tracker is all red and you really want to book a win, but it is still a leak.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

whenever emtions come into the game you should quit. Quitting is a good option at that point. An even better one is to learn to control those emtotions.

That's the bottom line.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

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If everyone jumped off the roof would you? It is exactly opposite of quiting while you are on tilt. When you are on tilt you are playing bad, when you are up the assumption is you are playing well (or getting smacked in the face with the deck) quiting in the former is a great idea, in the later is a leak. There are situations when it isn't a bad leak; like when your PT session tracker is all red and you really want to book a win, but it is still a leak.

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No, it's exactly the same as quitting when you're on tilt. Both are scenarios that happen to most if not all players, and where it's useless to just advise "don't do it" because it's not under conscious control.

In both scenarios, unconscious psych factors suggest you're not playing your best, so you quit and try again when those factors aren't in play. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

I personally do the same thing as OP and i don't think it's a leak.
If i quit being up decent amount of money, i feel good, pleased with the result obviously and the next session i am feeling confident and play well.

If i stay and win a little more, that wouldn't make such a difference.But if i lose, i feel agitated and start blaming myself that i didn't leave when i wanted to.It seems like every time i stay "to bust that fish, cause it's a shame to waste this opportunity", i double someone else up and meanwhile fish loses his stack to other players, leave and i play for another 4 hours just trying to making it back to where i was.


I also found out that i start to play a little scared wanting to keep that win (in subconsciousness, perhaps, but it still exists) so i end up losing a lot more frequently than winning.

Also, i play deep stacked poker much worse that the standard 100-150BB poker, cause my style of play is TAG, not LAG and i don't feel comfortable felting for like 250BB without the nuts.

All those reasons is why i leave when i am up an amount that satisfies me.Is it a leak?
It would be if i kept playing the same game after being up a lot.
Since i play worse because of the factors i mentioned, i think, setting a stop win is a good thing.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

learn to control your emotions BWD

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

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learn to control your emotions BWD

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Lol, easy to say.
I am not emotionless robot.
I learned to cope with tilt pretty well by now, but i still leave whenever i am tilted, cause my play detoriorates.
Same thing with leaving while up a lot in pretty short period of time.

If you detach your emotions completely while playing, you are obviously achieved some level i'll probably never reach.

But on the other hand, i love poker because of the emotions it brings me, whether it's excitment, satisfaction, thrill, joy, and sometimes even anger and sadness.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

i know, I just think saying it bluntly get's the point accross better

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but i still leave whenever i am tilted, cause my play detoriorates.

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good, but my point it that if you control your emotions there will be no need to leave. Easier said then done I know.

These are the 2 conclusions from the topic:

1: stop playing when emotions enter into it, whether that's from being afraid to loose or tilt or whatever.

2: learn to control these emotions so you don't have to quit. Completely detaching your emotions will be near impossible for nearly all of us, but learning to control them is the key. For example say whenever you lost any amount of money, even 1bb you went on tilt and played recklessly. Now, this only happens when you lose 20bbs. It's an improvement, but you should strive for more. Crude example I know, but you get my point.

we should all be striving for number 2, but 1 is the last resort.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

There has to be some value in spending time between the sessions knowing that you raked in a lot of money last time you played, as opposed to knowing that you donked off most of your winnings in the last hour, especially if you're still new to the game and lack emotional detachment and confidence that you're a winning player. If I win a huge pot at about the point where I start thinking about wrapping it up for the day, then I usually leave shortly afterwards and have a high for the next two weeks until the next time I play. Being emotionally positive, as long as you don't get over-confident, has to be +EV unless you're a robot.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

I think if you are building your bankroll then it's a perfectly valid approach. It makes no sense mathematically but makes sense psychologically.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

Poker is not just math - the psychology is also very important. I leave after an extraordinary hand, or a hat trick of good hands, when I'm up.

Why? not for the reasons you might think.

When I just drag in a huge pot, or 3 big pots in a row (hat trick), my endorphin levels have skyrocketed. I feel invincible, and this is going to affect my play. Screw it. Leave, take a break, calm down, get a hooker, hang with some friends, watch TV. FORGET that you just stacked 3 people at once.

Return to the tables rested, and after you've come down from the "drug" of the endorphin rush.

AB

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

I also tend to leave games after I'm up 2 or 3 buyins. This causes me to somtimes have very short sessions, and it causes me to only play long sessions when I'm stuck or breakeven on the day because I'm either trying to make back what I lost for the day or book a win. After I'm up a couple buyins I feel scared to lose what I've made and usually end up quitting soon after. It seems to change my game for the worse usually so it's probably better that I stop, even if I'm in a good game. This is definetly something I need to improve in my game.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

If you fall into the mentality of being afraid to lose it back...you shouldn't play if it causes you to play less than optimal.

I dont see anything wrong with this mindset honestly. Its probably more self protective than anything else.

Re: Stop playing when you are up
 

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If you fall into the mentality of being afraid to lose it back...you shouldn't play if it causes you to play less than optimal.


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My rate is about $23/hr. Presumably I sometimes play better and sometimes worse. Not results-wise, EV-wise. So optimal might be like $30/hr. If my lesure time is worth only $15/hr to me then clearly I should play my sub-optimal game very often.

I think this is simple fact. Not picking on you though, I see this "only play your A-game" stuff a lot.

On the other hand if you start spewing like a busted fire hydrant whenever you get up a few buyins you should probably stop.