Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

This is just sooooooo gross. I don't know villian but my datamining has >1000 hands on him at 27/21 so he's got good stats so I equat that w/being a decent, aggressive player.

Wtf do I/should have done? Bet turn? I was thinking bet turn since there is no way this guy has a ten but he likely could have a better 2p/set and won't go anywhere anyway since he likely knows I don't have the straight either.

Advice on this river, turn also?


Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $5/$10
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $72
UTG+1: $3656.25
CO: $1520.40
Button: $1623
SB: $781.75
Hero: $1405.75

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $35</font>, 3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $125</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($255, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $165</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($585, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

River: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($585, 2 players)


???

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

You're deep enough that he could be calling light with some SCs. I would just c/f.

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

just c/f hek. you know there is a fold button?

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

c/f flop?

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

whenever im HU and have a really tough decision, I try to imagine my opponent sitting in front of his computer with whatever cards he has and then flipping the table and making him go "damn, this is such a sick spot, wtf do I do now?"

Unfortunately here I dont think you can convincingly rep hearts, even with a shove. I would check/fold since really this is isnt that much of a loss and congrats to him for finding himself in this spot if he has the balls to take advantage of it w.out hearts.

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

c/c blows obviously.

I actually think it's pretty close between shoving and c/f'ing. I would prolly shove.

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

I'd probably push.

how exactly does he have hearts here? Do you think he's calling OOP with SC that often here? Other than that, which I think is unlikely, only hand I see is A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and there are a lot more hands he will have on the river than that.

whats up with the flop bet? Do you really bet 165 there with AA/QQ/AQ?

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

No offense but post title is misleading, I expected to see an insane pot with nut flush on a river paired board vs a LAG, etc. This isn't incredibly spicy. Being OOP makes it suck, but c/fing is fine. Moving it in to represent hearts probably doesn't work, I'm not sure what flush you could sell. If he has the balls to fire in anything big without them, good for him - you're not insanely invested, folding is fine.

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
just c/f hek. you know there is a fold button?

[/ QUOTE ]

You've played w/me plenty. I don't fold enough? I feel like a calling station sometimes which is why I ask.

In the hand I turned into one: I c/c'd $750...stooopid. He had 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

How do you guys play the turn?

$165 on flop is fine isn't it? JaBlue, why do you think that's bad? Yeah I would bet $165 here with air and the nuts.

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

grooooooss preflop 3-bet.

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

[ QUOTE ]


whats up with the flop bet? Do you really bet 165 there with AA/QQ/AQ?

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um, yeah. cbetting 1/2 to 2/3 is pretty standard in reraised.

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
grooooooss preflop 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah i know. I was in preflop aggro mode but soon as I repopped I knew it was bad hand to do it with vs an UTG+ opener.

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

check flop, turn check is good, c/f river

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
grooooooss preflop 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah i know. I was in preflop aggro mode but soon as I repopped I knew it was bad hand to do it with vs an UTG+ opener.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that because we're in deep trouble if we're called? I feel like in a 6max game I'm 3betting KQs against a 27/21 a lot since I think it's ahead of his range and he'll call me pre a bit light, but am I just setting myself up for a reverse implied odds situation? When HEK and MDMA strongly disagree with something I do frequently, I know that's a bad sign for me, but I want to understand the reasoning. Better to do it with 87s or 66 or QQ, but not middling strength hands?

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

hek ive played with you a fair amount, not a lot by any means. but yea you are suchhhhh a station. good thing i am not playin ftp anymore so i mean its not like your knowledge of what i think of you matters. if i hit a flush there i would 100% be expected you to call there regardless of your hand heh.

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

I was also surprised that 2 solid posters agreed 3betting KQs was bad. I'm guessing their reasoning is that if called, its possible they are dominated. However in my opinion this doesn't matter, and I think 3betting is a fine play.

I just play 2/4 but here are my thoughts - first of all, 3betting means I'll pick up the pot over half the time preflop. If called by a smaller pair, over half the time they'll c/f to my cbet, especially on a broadway card or A-high board. If they happen to have AK (or AQ, but many will fold AQ to the 3bet, making it less likely that you are dominated), again you'll likely get them to fold the best hand if they miss the flop.

Any hand I will cold call with pre, I normally 3bet at least 50% of the time, and believe this is hugely profitable at these stakes. I'd like to hear why MDMA and HEK disagree.

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

because vilian is opening UTG+1, not from a steal position. We will be out of position in a raised pot vs a good player with a dominated hand. Yes, 66, 67s, QQ, 910, whatever is better than a hand like KQ, QJ, AJ etc.

tc,

Thanks...really.

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

I'd say shove &gt; c/f &gt; c/c. I assume the PF reraise is bad because since we're BB there's less need for it, and because we're deepish and the opener should have a relatively tight range from that spot. I still don't really mind it though.

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was also surprised that 2 solid posters agreed 3betting KQs was bad. I'm guessing their reasoning is that if called, its possible they are dominated. However in my opinion this doesn't matter, and I think 3betting is a fine play.

I just play 2/4 but here are my thoughts - first of all, 3betting means I'll pick up the pot over half the time preflop. If called by a smaller pair, over half the time they'll c/f to my cbet, especially on a broadway card or A-high board. If they happen to have AK (or AQ, but many will fold AQ to the 3bet, making it less likely that you are dominated), again you'll likely get them to fold the best hand if they miss the flop.

Any hand I will cold call with pre, I normally 3bet at least 50% of the time, and believe this is hugely profitable at these stakes. I'd like to hear why MDMA and HEK disagree.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok im noob here but wouldnt that reasoning imply 3-betting with 32o is also profitable?

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

Sure if you're deep enough. We're not in this case.

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

[ QUOTE ]


$165 on flop is fine isn't it? JaBlue, why do you think that's bad? Yeah I would bet $165 here with air and the nuts.

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I just thought it was a strange bet size considering the texture of this flop... I would really expect a bet of 200 or more from most players with AA/AQ in this spot. If you really bet 165 here with AA thats fine, but I doubt you (or many other people) do.

As for the hand, I Guess you know by now that c/c is by far the worst option and you really butchered the river [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

hek, i always here ppl saying rr or fold pre with these types hands oop. is a call here with this hand really bad??

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

I dont like the pf rr against utg +1. I think fold &gt; call &gt;rr. With pfr wide opening range, its closer to a call than against others.

Flop is fine. On river, I think blocking for 200 is good is preferable to c/c. I think he very rarely has flush here, but he's going to need it to put in real raise against you. The problem with c/c is it cost you almost 600 every time he has the flush, as opposed to 200. Everytime he doesnt, you split pot.

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

a block of 200 sucks imo since I would expect a good player to jam it every single time.

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
hek, i always here ppl saying rr or fold pre with these types hands oop.

[/ QUOTE ]
those ppl are donkeys

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hek, i always here ppl saying rr or fold pre with these types hands oop.

[/ QUOTE ]
those ppl are donkeys

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Such a sick sick spot 5/10 hand
 

just curious, what was your plan on the turn?