Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

I'm sure there are some people that are very happy about the new VIP program. I'm really disappointed. As a player who made it to 200K VPPs this year and was going to aim for 300K VPPs next year (no point now), I was excited about rumours of a new VIP program and hoping there would be something special to aim for.

All that Supernovas at the 200K VPP level get now that is different to last year is a $2K bonus that you have to pay almost $1K in FPPs to get...

At the 300K VPP level (and you have to contribute a *lot* of rake to get to this level), all they get is a $3K bonus that you need to contribute almost $1K in FPPs to get.

This is not only about the fact that we haven't had much additional added to the program, but the only good freeroll (the Supernova freeroll) has been taken away! In freerolls where it's Goldstar+ and Silverstar+ there will be thousands of people. The value of these freerolls will be much lower than it looks to you now, I can assure you.

So essentially my value from the program (along with other Novas from 100K yearly VPPs - has actually gone down and has apparently been given to the Elkys of the world. I'm not saying that someone who gets 1 Million VPPs shouldn't be rewarded but not at other Novas expense.

What a disappointment. So many neat things could have been done to give me the drive to play this year. I've never played a big land based tournament and I was really hoping that the 300K VPP level would grant entry into a land based $5K event or an EPT or something. Something to actually aim for poker-wise rather than boring small cash bonuses which 2p2ers constantly beg for. I can't speak for anyone else but an extra $1K for a hard year of grinding won't motivate me to play. I hope Stars sees the folly of their ways and rectifies the situation. To their credit they always have in the past.

Ryan

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

300,00 points under the old system-

$16,800 + some crappy freerolls

300,000 points under new system-

$16,800 + some crappy freerolls + $3400 + %75 towards another $3200.


I'm not sure what people were expecting, but this looks like a nice bump to me.

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

If you get to 300K level, you get $3.4K cash extra in addition to over 30% rb. If you get to 500k level you collect $10.8 extra cash - enough to buy into WSOP on your own.

As to freerolls their EV remains to be seen. I hope it will be higher for SN than it was before not lower.

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

Fair enough. Where on Earth does it talk about the extra cash?

Ryan

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

It looks like it is extremely easy for the golds and plats to qualify for the weekly $50k.

I really doubt the freeroll EV has gone up.

I'm not too heart-broken about that though.

SN freeroll value was already getting pretty low anyway.


Right now, Almost 500 Supernovas registered for the last of the old-format weekly freerolls.

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fair enough. Where on Earth does it talk about the extra cash?

[/ QUOTE ]

You get $2,000 when you reach 200K. That's $1,200 extra cash (50k FPP worth $800 at 1.6c/FPP).
You get $3,000 when you reach 300K. That's extra $2,200. And so on.

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

Oh, I'm aware of the bonuses. Where is this extra cash you are talking about?

All I can find on the Stars site is information about the bonuses: for example $5,000 at 500,000 VPP

Ryan

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

The bonuses are the extra cash..

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

[ QUOTE ]
300,00 points under the old system-

$16,800 + some crappy freerolls

300,000 points under new system-

$16,800 + some crappy freerolls + $3400 + %75 towards another $3200.


I'm not sure what people were expecting, but this looks like a nice bump to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

my brain is not fully awake this morning, can you please explain these numbers?

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

300k VPP's equals about $16k+ worth of FPP's.


The $3400 extra that you get now is the bonuses.

You don't really get $2000 at 200k and $3000 at 300k.
You have to pay $800 worth of FPP's each time to get these bonuses.

So you are buying $5k in cash for $1600 in FPP's which is where the $3400 number comes from.

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
300,00 points under the old system-

$16,800 + some crappy freerolls

300,000 points under new system-

$16,800 + some crappy freerolls + $3400 + %75 towards another $3200.


I'm not sure what people were expecting, but this looks like a nice bump to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

my brain is not fully awake this morning, can you please explain these numbers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, the 1,050,000fpp's you earn for 300Kvpp's is worth $16,800. $5K in bonuses cost $1600 in fpp's +$3400. The real valus comes at 400K and 500K though.

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

I wasn't aware you got the bonus at each level.

That makes it marginally better but I still don't think I'll be aiming for 300K VPPs.

Ryan

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

gotcha, thanks bob.

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

Also, guys, the cash value of FPPs was there last year. This can be left out of the discussion. We all know how that works by now.

Ryan

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, guys, the cash value of FPPs was there last year. This can be left out of the discussion. We all know how that works by now.


[/ QUOTE ]

Right. This is why I deducted $800 from $2,000 and from $3,000.

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

I a family man who value his time and only play when I can (after the kids are in bed)...
For me I am only able to get up to Silver (for 3 months now).. $50 bonus or something would've been nice for some us [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, guys, the cash value of FPPs was there last year. This can be left out of the discussion. We all know how that works by now.

Ryan

[/ QUOTE ]


I think it's worth including on both 'old SN' and 'new SN' to see the percentage increase in money you get.

Looking at 'get$3.4k' for all that work doesn't look like much.

But it really is a matter of:
$20.2k instead of $16.8k (not including frerroll value because that's too unknown right now).


At 300k you are getting 16.8% more than you would have previously.

If you are at roughly 30% rakeback for the stakes you play then this effectively makes it 35% I believe.


I'm not so sure if all that grinding is worth an extra 5% or $3400 or however you want to look at it. But it's worth evaluating that way.

This isn't that different from traditional rakeback sites where most players get 28% but the highest volume players can get bumped to 31% or something.


And then you also factor in that if you can get to 300k then you are not TOO far from 400k or 500k where your percentage really starts to escalate.
Plus all that additional freeroll value (maybe an extra 1%...I don't know).


Man, this is complicated.

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

[ QUOTE ]
$50 bonus or something would've been nice for some us

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like you get entry into $20,000 freeroll each week (instead of $2,500 freeroll last year).

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

Rough calcs look like these bonuses add (compared to the old value of FPP's only):

12% for a 200k player
22% for a 300k player
33% for a 400k player
42% for a 500k player

For the higher values it looks to be a decent value. Certainly better than FTP's upgrade. I'm not sure what kind of value can be expected from the 50k weekly freerolls, probably another $50 a week or so.

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, guys, the cash value of FPPs was there last year. This can be left out of the discussion. We all know how that works by now.

Ryan

[/ QUOTE ]




If you are at roughly 30% rakeback for the stakes you play then this effectively makes it 35% I believe.


[/ QUOTE ]

Going from 300K to 500K looks like over 50% RB, noice

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

Also, why the hell didn't the freerolls go monthly? I thought the general consensus was that this was a good compromise. This is going to take up a chunk of my time again this year.

Can't we make it a $200K freeroll once a month and make Gold/Plat. actually have to earn their way in rather than playing in a satellite where you can probably fold your way to a seat?

Like have one big satellite for them where you give out x number of seats.

Ryan

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

[ QUOTE ]

You get $2,000 when you reach 200K. That's $1,200 extra cash (50k FPP worth $800 at 1.6c/FPP).
You get $3,000 when you reach 300K. That's extra $2,200. And so on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where does it say this? I don't see it on either PStars' bonus page or its Supernova Elite page.

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

[ QUOTE ]
but the only good freeroll (the Supernova freeroll) has been taken away!

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with this. The current Nova freeroll is not that great with over 500 entrants. Plus, I presume the prize structure for the new 50k will be more standard as opposed to the ridiculous $100 participation prize for folding for 2 hours. Making the money in this 50k tournament should mean something, 10th place will surely mean a whole lot more than it does now and play good enough to final table once or twice in the year and it becomes a very valuable addition.

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

Wait until you see how many people are in it *after* the 1st week. Then you might change your mind.

Ryan

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

I was wondering if their web site is finished with all the updates. From their previous announcements it seemed that there were more than one extra incentive to reach 200K etc (they always used plural forms when talking about the new promotions).
The only change is the one time bonus. I feel like a jerk for convincing my friend to bust his balls to make supernova by year end, by telling thim that there would be a big improvement to the supernova program.

I know that it is very likely this is the only change, but I was hoping for some incentive that would definitely convince me to give 100% of my play to stars....(this one time bonus isnt it).

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

Sounds like I'm gonna have more fun sleeping through the first hour of the freerolls, then shoving 2 out of every 3 hands and generally wreaking havoc. Wheeee.

Also, it looks like I'll have to play about 22,222 $100 SNGs (as pretty much everyone believes the $225s+ are unprofitable). Time to get a new monitor and video card! Is there any way a NL cash player can make 1M VPPs?

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

I sure would like to see something like one of the big MTT packages for 500k and 2 for 750k. Lee, pleeeese?

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

Or even an EPT package which isn't as high-end as the others.

If I actually got to 1-million (which I won't) I might actually talk them into letting me exchange 1 of the big ones for 2 smaller EPT ones instead.

Doubt they would accomodate, but who knows. If not, I can spend my FPP's on them anyway.

GF and I want to go to France, Spain, Ireland.
We've been to Vegas.

Aussie Millions entry would be a good one too.

If I'm stuck with Bahamas, WSOP and Monte Carlo though I think I can live.

Again though, this is all just fantasy-land since I'm not going to make it anyway.

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

hey ryan,

I'm kind of in your boat, got to 130k this year even though i only went fulltime in august, played more on other sites than i will next year, and played relatively more (slower-fpp-accruing) mtts than i will next year. So I feel like the sn elite is out of reach, but 300k/400k isn't and maybe even 500k or 750k isn't either.

It kind of sucks that the really big sn elite prize (the tournaments) doesn't accrue incrementally. I think it's clear that they don't expect very many sn elites, so something like only giving sn elites one big event but giving 300k a wsop prelim/wcoop and 500ks an ept would cost them a lot more $, since there will be like twenty sn elites and probably a couple hundred 500ks. SN elite is a bit of a phantom reward, because it's so hard to get, but it's not like low and middle novas get nothing, this is definitely better than before, granted you trade some freeroll equity but not nearly as much as you get back, and unlike freerolls the bonuses don't take any time.

I also hoped there weould be an FPP bonus bump between sn and sn elite, and yeah, an extra land based tourney bonus would be awesome. Still, it makes sense that every additional 100k is worth more; nova itself is based on this principle - your last 50k is harder to get and therefore worth more, etc.

So overall, I think this is a decent deal; even though it kinda sucks that it's distributed $1200/$2200/$3200/$4200/$6700/$25K+.

And I see your point about the 200k-300k range especially, because you get as much added equity ($3200 vs $3400) for vpps 300k-400k as for 0-300k; then it kind of flattens a bit and there's the huge bonus for 1mils. It's like three tiers, 0-300, 400-750, and sn elite. I think I'm going to aim for 400k as my base goal for that reason, and I can see wheresomeone aiming for 300k might be frustrated. If I end up playing less than I expect, I can see myself being frustrated by getting to 320k or soemthing and feeling like I just missed the bigger bonuses. Of course, getting to like 900k would suck even more.

It will be interesting to see how many sn elites there end up being.

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I sure would like to see something like one of the big MTT packages for 500k and 2 for 750k. Lee, pleeeese?

[/ QUOTE ]


That's actually more how I imagined it - something like the WCOOP ticket at 500k, the PCA package at 750k and then the other rewards (higher VPP multiplier extra packages etc at 1 million. That way still a huge incentive to get to the elite stage but a lot more enticing stuff in between over and above simple cash as nice as that is Would have thought it made more sense to do it gradually - but then as someone who is substantially more likely to get 750k I would say that.

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I sure would like to see something like one of the big MTT packages for 500k and 2 for 750k. Lee, pleeeese?

[/ QUOTE ]

One thing we shouldn't ignore is the possibility/likelihood of very high equity wsop and pca freerolls for the higher levels.

I seriously doubt they would give a main event seat for 500k, but they could very easily have a 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 freeroll for the main event and the pca.

In fact, since scotty has said they're taking suggestions, why don't we push for some kind of major event freeroll system; i.e. they have "supernova plus" freerolls to all major events with a set number of seats; maybe only a couple for minor ept events, more for the pca and main event. And give tickets that can be used in any of them to 200k+ novas, more tickets for each level.

I'm sure they could work thius out so the equity given up wouldn't be huge, but they still make folks in the 200k-500k range feel better about the system.

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I

All that Supernovas at the 200K VPP level get now that is different to last year is a $2K bonus that you have to pay almost $1K in FPPs to get...

[/ QUOTE ]

The SN program was already pretty good. Now you're complaing that you're "only" getting $2000 more?

What did you guys expect? Pokerstars is still a company trying to make money. Giving away $2000 to every player playing the amount you do is not something small. Its pretty much like getting a $2000 XMas bonus...if you worked a real job and got that would you really complain?

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

Yeah, I thought about the possibility that they will add PCA and WSOP freerolls for SN's.

And maybe have exclusive freerolls for the 200k or 300k level players.

This is something they wouldn't be doing until 2008 though I wouldn't think.

But I cold be wrong, and they could have an 'exclusive' WSOP freeroll on May 1 for those who have already gotten to 100k or 200k by that point or whatever.


I'm not sure they will have such freerolls though.
Because they don't have any titles for the 200k and 300k levels. You aren't the 'next higher level'.
You are still jsut a Supernova who happened to get enough points to be eligible to purchase the milestone bonus.


The only 'next highest' level they title is the Elite.

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I

All that Supernovas at the 200K VPP level get now that is different to last year is a $2K bonus that you have to pay almost $1K in FPPs to get...

[/ QUOTE ]

The SN program was already pretty good. Now you're complaing that you're "only" getting $2000 more?

What did you guys expect? Pokerstars is still a company trying to make money. Giving away $2000 to every player playing the amount you do is not something small. Its pretty much like getting a $2000 XMas bonus...if you worked a real job and got that would you really complain?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think ryan's issue is more the distribution of the rewards seeming topheavy than being greedy.

But of course, the system can be topheavy becaus in absolute $ terms, stars won't be giving away that much to sn elites because there simply won't be many. In terms of the aggregate cost/value per level I think Stars did make the system pretty fair. I imagine that based on their assumptions about how many wil reach each level, the total amounts they are distributing to high end/middle end/low end novas is balanced.

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is there any way a NL cash player can make 1M VPPs?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to try. I certainly don't think its impossible.

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is there any way a NL cash player can make 1M VPPs?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to try. I certainly don't think its impossible.

[/ QUOTE ]

shouldn't 4k or so hands per day at 2/4 or higher do it with time to spare?

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

yeah, it does certainly feel like the journey from 100k SN to SN elite is the equivalent of trecking through the sahara desert to get to the big prize. Imo I think they should have thrown a bone to some of the players pushing for the SN elite status midway in their journey... Like perhaps a free WCOOP 1k NL ticket at either the 500k or 750k level or how about an exclusive SNG ticket like they have for the goldstar members but only this one will have a 2k first prize (worth 30k fpps in value - feel free to up the stakes to whatever you want it but you get the idea). Just something to keep the devoted to the elite milestone motivated to achieve the 1 million vpp level.

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

While I was hoping that they would have a free EPT entry for getting 200K or 300K (or even 500K) at the very minimum I was expecting a discount for the SN+ to purchase one of these entries with fpps. I thought they missed out on some marketing opportunities (if players wore stars gear), by encouraging players to use their fpps for EPT and WSOP events.
From stars perspective I think they would rather have players use fpps to enter these events than by a tv etc.

I really was hoping for some sort of discount for the higher volume players this year.+

Re: Low end Supernovas looked over by new VIP program.
 

[ QUOTE ]
While I was hoping that they would have a free EPT entry for getting 200K or 300K (or even 500K) at the very minimum I was expecting a discount for the SN+ to purchase one of these entries with fpps. I thought they missed out on some marketing opportunities (if players wore stars gear), by encouraging players to use their fpps for EPT and WSOP events.
From stars perspective I think they would rather have players use fpps to enter these events than by a tv etc.

I really was hoping for some sort of discount for the higher volume players this year.+

[/ QUOTE ]

v good point/idea.

i could see stars going for some combination of a sn+ major event freeroll system and sn+ fpp discounts.