Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraqis\"
 

Require the death penalty? Lets be consistent please.

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
Require the death penalty? Lets be consistent please.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, I wonder what hes trying to say!!!! HANG BUSH!!!!

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraqis\"
 

Innocent Iraq's as well as innocent US and foreign troops.

Also lets look at the reasons he gave for going to war. They were lies. Thus he has to face his actions. Problem was was he just a puppet with someone else pulling the strings. I realize it will never happen

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Require the death penalty? Lets be consistent please.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, I wonder what hes trying to say!!!! HANG BUSH!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think anyone should hang.

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
Require the death penalty? Lets be consistent please.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pleased to see that you're really engaging with all the complex issues presented by this case.

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

Should not sadaam have been tried in a World court?

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
Should not sadaam have been tried in a World court?

[/ QUOTE ]

For actions occurring wholly inside Iraq, involving only Iraqi nationals? Why? Do you feel that the Iraqi judiciary was incompetent to handle the matter?

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

It's understandable that you don't want to answer.

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you feel that the Iraqi judiciary was incompetent to handle the matter?


[/ QUOTE ]

Given the climate of sectarian and other divisions, general lawlessness that saw members of Saddam's defence team killed, and blatant political interference and irregularites that caused Human Rights Watch to condemn the conduct of the case, obviously the Iraqi judiciary was incompetent to handle it.

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

But do you really doubt that Saddam was a mass murderer? I am against the death penalty and against the war in Iraq, but I'm not shedding a tear over Saddam's execution. We all know that he was the scum of the earth.

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
But do you really doubt that Saddam was a mass murderer? I am against the death penalty and against the war in Iraq, but I'm not shedding a tear over Saddam's execution. We all know that he was the scum of the earth.

[/ QUOTE ]


Yes but are you not there to restore freedom and democracy.

Which should include a fair trial. Also by your point than Bush should hang too

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

Its a FRICKIN war, people die in war, im not sure if you realized this. Saddam murdered hundreds of thousands of people for political stability, the US, Britian, and many others went into Iraq to depose of Saddam, cut his ties with terrorist orginizations, rid him of or prevent him from gainining Nuclear Weapons, and create a democracy in the Middle East.

Its one thing to be against the war, its another thing to be a partisan idiot

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
Its a FRICKIN war, people die in war, im not sure if you realized this. Saddam murdered hundreds of thousands of people for political stability, the US, Britian, and many others went into Iraq to depose of Saddam, cut his ties with terrorist orginizations, rid him of or prevent him from gainining Nuclear Weapons, and create a democracy in the Middle East.

Its one thing to be against the war, its another thing to be a partisan idiot

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that a yes or a no?

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
But do you really doubt that Saddam was a mass murderer? I am against the death penalty and against the war in Iraq, but I'm not shedding a tear over Saddam's execution. We all know that he was the scum of the earth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Without a free and fair trial and a good documented decord we cannot be sure. That is if you believe in the innocent until proven guilty axiom -- and believe in it as a bedrock principle.

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
But do you really doubt that Saddam was a mass murderer?

[/ QUOTE ]

No I don't, but that wasn't the question. His absurd trial only increases the division in Iraq and makes it a lot easier for others to argue that he wasn't a mass murderer than a proper invesitgation and trial would have.

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

against death penalty, but law is the law and crime is the crime. under the pressure of media serving the interests of politics and corporate power it's difficult to get the right picture.

" If they do it it's terrorism, if we do it, it's fighting for freedom. "
a U.S. Ambassador in Central America in the 1980s, asked to explain how such U.S. actions as the mining of Nicaragua's harbors and bombing of airports differed from the acts of terrorism that the U.S. condemned around the world

one more:
" [The Laos operation] is something of which we can be proud as Americans.
It has involved virtually no American casualties. What we are getting for our money there ... is, I think, to use the old phrase, very cost effective."
U. Alexis Johnson, US Under Secretary of State in 1971 about American carpet-bombing of Laos which killed hundreds-of-thousands of civilians

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraqis\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
Require the death penalty? Lets be consistent please.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you believe any of America's presidents during WW2 should have been tried and put to death?

You could counter, as someone in this thread mentioned, that Bush lied about the reasons for going to war. Bush and other proponets for the war gave numerous reasons for invading Iraq, most of which were not lies, but since we did not find WMDs people that did not like Bush jumped all over it and called him a liar. The fact that he lied about the WMDs, in my opinion, is highly debateable. I believe Bush actually thought Saddam either had them or was actively pursuing getting them, people that despise Bush think otherwise. They claim that he knew without a shadow of a doubt, Saddam did not have WMDs and chose to tell the American people that he did anyway. That would hvae been a lie. However a great deal of evidence suggests this is not true. That being said, this goes back to the poker example of getting it all in with AA preflop only to lose to 72o, after someone told you that you will make money if you do that. Are they a liar? No.

I got a little off topic there. My answer to you is no. Let's say I am a city planner, we decide that a bridge should be built to make it easier to access two parts of our city from each other. The plan gets accepted and the bridge is built. A short period after the bridge is built, it collapses killing hundreds who were on the bridge and many more who were unlucky enough to be fishing underneath the bridge when it collapsed. Should any of us planners or anyone involved in ordering the builiding of the bridge require the death penalty?

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraqis\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Require the death penalty? Lets be consistent please.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you believe any of America's presidents during WW2 should have been tried and put to death?

You could counter, as someone in this thread mentioned, that Bush lied about the reasons for going to war. Bush and other proponets for the war gave numerous reasons for invading Iraq, most of which were not lies, but since we did not find WMDs people that did not like Bush jumped all over it and called him a liar. The fact that he lied about the WMDs, in my opinion, is highly debateable. I believe Bush actually thought Saddam either had them or was actively pursuing getting them, people that despise Bush think otherwise. They claim that he knew without a shadow of a doubt, Saddam did not have WMDs and chose to tell the American people that he did anyway. That would hvae been a lie. However a great deal of evidence suggests this is not true. That being said, this goes back to the poker example of getting it all in with AA preflop only to lose to 72o, after someone told you that you will make money if you do that. Are they a liar? No.

I got a little off topic there. My answer to you is no. Let's say I am a city planner, we decide that a bridge should be built to make it easier to access two parts of our city from each other. The plan gets accepted and the bridge is built. A short period after the bridge is built, it collapses killing hundreds who were on the bridge and many more who were unlucky enough to be fishing underneath the bridge when it collapsed. Should any of us planners or anyone involved in ordering the builiding of the bridge require the death penalty?

[/ QUOTE ]


If you took bribes and kickbacks to build a shoddy bridge. Than yes you are guilty of murder.

How any American can still support Bush is beyond me. Funny thing is any Republican candidate will have to distance himself from Bush to have a hope

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]

Do you believe any of America's presidents during WW2 should have been tried and put to death?

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I say I don't think anyone should be hung but here are your options.

1. Don't punish Saddam

2. Punish all people who give orders that they know will cause the deaths of innocent people.

3. Admit that that isn't the real reason you are killing Saddam.

4. Admit that you're a hypocrite.

5. Come up with a credible actual tangible difference between those innocents who died because of Saddam and those who died because of, for example Churchill or Roosevelt.
[ QUOTE ]

Should any of us planners or anyone involved in ordering the builiding of the bridge require the death penalty?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you built the bridge knowing full well that innocent people would die then yes you are responsible.

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraqis\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Require the death penalty? Lets be consistent please.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you believe any of America's presidents during WW2 should have been tried and put to death?

You could counter, as someone in this thread mentioned, that Bush lied about the reasons for going to war. Bush and other proponets for the war gave numerous reasons for invading Iraq, most of which were not lies, but since we did not find WMDs people that did not like Bush jumped all over it and called him a liar. The fact that he lied about the WMDs, in my opinion, is highly debateable. I believe Bush actually thought Saddam either had them or was actively pursuing getting them, people that despise Bush think otherwise. They claim that he knew without a shadow of a doubt, Saddam did not have WMDs and chose to tell the American people that he did anyway. That would hvae been a lie. However a great deal of evidence suggests this is not true. That being said, this goes back to the poker example of getting it all in with AA preflop only to lose to 72o, after someone told you that you will make money if you do that. Are they a liar? No.

I got a little off topic there. My answer to you is no. Let's say I am a city planner, we decide that a bridge should be built to make it easier to access two parts of our city from each other. The plan gets accepted and the bridge is built. A short period after the bridge is built, it collapses killing hundreds who were on the bridge and many more who were unlucky enough to be fishing underneath the bridge when it collapsed. Should any of us planners or anyone involved in ordering the builiding of the bridge require the death penalty?

[/ QUOTE ]


If you took bribes and kickbacks to build a shoddy bridge. Than yes you are guilty of murder.

How any American can still support Bush is beyond me. Funny thing is any Republican candidate will have to distance himself from Bush to have a hope

[/ QUOTE ]

Building a shoddy bridge and building a bridge that you know will fail are different things to me.

When you say "If you took bribes and kickbacks to build a shoddy bridge..." are you trying to imply that Bush purposely allowed the implementation of the war to be "shoddy"? If so, I don't see how Bush could possibly think he would benefit more from a war plan that results in the disaster that we have today than from one that is a sweeping success.

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you built the bridge knowing full well that innocent people would die then yes you are responsible

[/ QUOTE ]

By this logic every president that has entered into a war is guilty, it is war, innocent people are going to die. It's an unavoidable fact.

I understand if you are just against war, period, but if you somehow expected Bush to fight a war in which no innocent people die, that is where I would take issue with you. I would say it is completely unreasonable to expect such a thing.

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]

By this logic every president that has entered into a war is guilty,


[/ QUOTE ]


I agree. I'm not the one advocating hanging Saddam. All I'm saying is don't pretend that your not a massive hypocrite if you think Saddam should be punished but others shouldn't for doing the very same thing!

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraqis\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
How any American can still support Bush is beyond me.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason I don't have a virulent hatred for Bush the way many of you do is that he has the hardest job in the world. He has had to make decisions that most of us couldn't imagine being able to make. I think you are kidding yourself if you can honestly say that you would be able to sit in Bush's shoes for a week and make better decisions than he has. It's so easy for us to sit from the safety of our computers and say that Bush is a liar and a murderer and a moron in retrospect. I know I wouldn't be able to make one tenth of the decisions he has had to, therefore I feel that it would be wrong for me to condem Bush the way so many of you do so easily. Once again I will say that if you think you would have done a better job being put in the same situation you are kidding yourself. Unless you can honestly say that I don't think you have any right to be so critical of Bush.

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

By this logic every president that has entered into a war is guilty,


[/ QUOTE ]


I agree. I'm not the one advocating hanging Saddam. All I'm saying is don't pretend that your not a massive hypocrite if you think Saddam should be punished but others shouldn't for doing the very same thing!

[/ QUOTE ]

Bush has not done the same thing as Saddam though.

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

By this logic every president that has entered into a war is guilty,


[/ QUOTE ]


I agree. I'm not the one advocating hanging Saddam. All I'm saying is don't pretend that your not a massive hypocrite if you think Saddam should be punished but others shouldn't for doing the very same thing!

[/ QUOTE ]

Bush has not done the same thing as Saddam though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actions not words. Knowingly issued orders for an offensive which meant innocent people would die.

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

By this logic every president that has entered into a war is guilty,


[/ QUOTE ]


I agree. I'm not the one advocating hanging Saddam. All I'm saying is don't pretend that your not a massive hypocrite if you think Saddam should be punished but others shouldn't for doing the very same thing!

[/ QUOTE ]

Bush has not done the same thing as Saddam though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actions not words. Knowingly issued orders for an offensive which meant innocent people would die.

[/ QUOTE ]

Innocent people die in any war, and you have no way of knowing how many innocent people were saved because of the war.

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

By this logic every president that has entered into a war is guilty,


[/ QUOTE ]


I agree. I'm not the one advocating hanging Saddam. All I'm saying is don't pretend that your not a massive hypocrite if you think Saddam should be punished but others shouldn't for doing the very same thing!

[/ QUOTE ]

Bush has not done the same thing as Saddam though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actions not words. Knowingly issued orders for an offensive which meant innocent people would die.

[/ QUOTE ]

Innocent people die in any war, and you have no way of knowing how many innocent people were saved because of the war.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have no way of knowing how many innocent people were saved when Saddam had the subversives killed.

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

By this logic every president that has entered into a war is guilty,


[/ QUOTE ]


I agree. I'm not the one advocating hanging Saddam. All I'm saying is don't pretend that your not a massive hypocrite if you think Saddam should be punished but others shouldn't for doing the very same thing!

[/ QUOTE ]

Bush has not done the same thing as Saddam though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actions not words. Knowingly issued orders for an offensive which meant innocent people would die.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't believe you can simplify things to this extent. Your analysis would say the U.S. entrance into WW2 was the same as Saddam's actions.

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

By this logic every president that has entered into a war is guilty,


[/ QUOTE ]


I agree. I'm not the one advocating hanging Saddam. All I'm saying is don't pretend that your not a massive hypocrite if you think Saddam should be punished but others shouldn't for doing the very same thing!

[/ QUOTE ]

Bush has not done the same thing as Saddam though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actions not words. Knowingly issued orders for an offensive which meant innocent people would die.

[/ QUOTE ]

Innocent people die in any war, and you have no way of knowing how many innocent people were saved because of the war.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have no way of knowing how many innocent people were saved when Saddam had the subversives killed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most people Saddam killed were not a threat to anyone other than Saddam, many weren't even a threat to him, his own paranoia led him to kill.

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

By this logic every president that has entered into a war is guilty,


[/ QUOTE ]


I agree. I'm not the one advocating hanging Saddam. All I'm saying is don't pretend that your not a massive hypocrite if you think Saddam should be punished but others shouldn't for doing the very same thing!

[/ QUOTE ]

Bush has not done the same thing as Saddam though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actions not words. Knowingly issued orders for an offensive which meant innocent people would die.

[/ QUOTE ]

Innocent people die in any war, and you have no way of knowing how many innocent people were saved because of the war.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have no way of knowing how many innocent people were saved when Saddam had the subversives killed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most people killed in the Iraq conflict were not a threat to anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

huh?

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

By this logic every president that has entered into a war is guilty,


[/ QUOTE ]


I agree. I'm not the one advocating hanging Saddam. All I'm saying is don't pretend that your not a massive hypocrite if you think Saddam should be punished but others shouldn't for doing the very same thing!

[/ QUOTE ]

Bush has not done the same thing as Saddam though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actions not words. Knowingly issued orders for an offensive which meant innocent people would die.

[/ QUOTE ]

Innocent people die in any war, and you have no way of knowing how many innocent people were saved because of the war.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have no way of knowing how many innocent people were saved when Saddam had the subversives killed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most people Saddam killed were not a threat to anyone other than Saddam, many weren't even a threat to him, his own paranoia led him to kill.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is interesting as it sounds just like the US and Bush

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

Money to burn said: "people who despise bush believe he lied (about WMD)".

I don't despise Bush, I despise his policies and the war profiteers he represents. Do you understand how I can seperate the two?

[b]Isnt it sad how the radio war propagandists have taught these drones to argue in the least productive way possible?

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

Wouldnt Truman have to be hanged to along with most other presidents?

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wouldnt Truman have to be hanged to along with most other presidents?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds good to me.

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Require the death penalty? Lets be consistent please.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you believe any of America's presidents during WW2 should have been tried and put to death?

You could counter, as someone in this thread mentioned, that Bush lied about the reasons for going to war. Bush and other proponets for the war gave numerous reasons for invading Iraq, most of which were not lies, but since we did not find WMDs people that did not like Bush jumped all over it and called him a liar. The fact that he lied about the WMDs, in my opinion, is highly debateable. I believe Bush actually thought Saddam either had them or was actively pursuing getting them, people that despise Bush think otherwise. They claim that he knew without a shadow of a doubt, Saddam did not have WMDs and chose to tell the American people that he did anyway. That would hvae been a lie. However a great deal of evidence suggests this is not true. That being said, this goes back to the poker example of getting it all in with AA preflop only to lose to 72o, after someone told you that you will make money if you do that. Are they a liar? No.

I got a little off topic there. My answer to you is no. Let's say I am a city planner, we decide that a bridge should be built to make it easier to access two parts of our city from each other. The plan gets accepted and the bridge is built. A short period after the bridge is built, it collapses killing hundreds who were on the bridge and many more who were unlucky enough to be fishing underneath the bridge when it collapsed. Should any of us planners or anyone involved in ordering the builiding of the bridge require the death penalty?

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay- before the invasion of Iraq, I KNEW all the reasons were false. Didn't think, KNEW. At the time I was a 22 year old University student. This was clear to anyone who spent more than 30 min researching. Anyone who says that the Bush administration made an easy mistake is either in denial or very, very dumb. To believe this is an honest mistake is to be a SUCKER.

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

By this logic every president that has entered into a war is guilty,


[/ QUOTE ]


I agree. I'm not the one advocating hanging Saddam. All I'm saying is don't pretend that your not a massive hypocrite if you think Saddam should be punished but others shouldn't for doing the very same thing!

[/ QUOTE ]

Bush has not done the same thing as Saddam though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actions not words. Knowingly issued orders for an offensive which meant innocent people would die.

[/ QUOTE ]

Innocent people die in any war, and you have no way of knowing how many innocent people were saved because of the war.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have no way of knowing how many innocent people were saved when Saddam had the subversives killed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most people Saddam killed were not a threat to anyone other than Saddam, many weren't even a threat to him, his own paranoia led him to kill.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, this is ironic. Do you see why?

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Require the death penalty? Lets be consistent please.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you believe any of America's presidents during WW2 should have been tried and put to death?

You could counter, as someone in this thread mentioned, that Bush lied about the reasons for going to war. Bush and other proponets for the war gave numerous reasons for invading Iraq, most of which were not lies, but since we did not find WMDs people that did not like Bush jumped all over it and called him a liar. The fact that he lied about the WMDs, in my opinion, is highly debateable. I believe Bush actually thought Saddam either had them or was actively pursuing getting them, people that despise Bush think otherwise. They claim that he knew without a shadow of a doubt, Saddam did not have WMDs and chose to tell the American people that he did anyway. That would hvae been a lie. However a great deal of evidence suggests this is not true. That being said, this goes back to the poker example of getting it all in with AA preflop only to lose to 72o, after someone told you that you will make money if you do that. Are they a liar? No.

I got a little off topic there. My answer to you is no. Let's say I am a city planner, we decide that a bridge should be built to make it easier to access two parts of our city from each other. The plan gets accepted and the bridge is built. A short period after the bridge is built, it collapses killing hundreds who were on the bridge and many more who were unlucky enough to be fishing underneath the bridge when it collapsed. Should any of us planners or anyone involved in ordering the builiding of the bridge require the death penalty?

[/ QUOTE ]


If you took bribes and kickbacks to build a shoddy bridge. Than yes you are guilty of murder.

How any American can still support Bush is beyond me. Funny thing is any Republican candidate will have to distance himself from Bush to have a hope

[/ QUOTE ]

Because then people would have to 1) admit they were wrong, and 2) admit that their instincts led them down this wrong path.

Most people are way too afraid to do this, and will fight to protect their delusions to the death.

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you are kidding yourself if you can honestly say that you would be able to sit in Bush's shoes for a week and make better decisions than he has.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can honestly say that yes, I would have.

Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
 

[ QUOTE ]
Okay- before the invasion of Iraq, I KNEW all the reasons were false. Didn't think, KNEW. At the time I was a 22 year old University student. This was clear to anyone who spent more than 30 min researching. Anyone who says that the Bush administration made an easy mistake is either in denial or very, very dumb. To believe this is an honest mistake is to be a SUCKER.


[/ QUOTE ] Good on you Johnny,


I am quite a fair bit older than you, and honestly I got sucked in by Bush/Blair/Howard arguments. I remember arguing with friends that I could not conceive that a president/prime minister would lie to its constituency in something as serious as a motive for a war.

I have had to apologize to all of my friends and acknowledge that, regardless of my age, I got suckered. I thought they, the powers, had information that they could not divulge for security purposes but that they would take a morally responsible stance.

I feel absolutely betrayed, like I have never been in my life, by my Prime Minister, the USA president, and the UK Prime Minister. One thing is for sure, is that I will never forget the way I was misled and will surely distrust any government from now on as potentially, and probably, self interested, greedy, miscreants. F* democracy when it can be so misused.