Israel is arming the PA
 

SF Chronicle

Cliffs notes: Egypt sent thousands of small arms to the Prime Minister Abbas headed PA security organization with Israel's approval.

Analysis: Does anyone think this is a power play on Israel's part to undermine Hamas? There is a growing level of violence between Hamas and the PA and I can definately see Israel wanting Abbas to win.

Re: Israel is arming the PA
 

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SF Chronicle

Cliffs notes: Egypt sent thousands of small arms to the Prime Minister Abbas headed PA security organization with Israel's approval.

Analysis: Does anyone think this is a power play on Israel's part to undermine Hamas? There is a growing level of violence between Hamas and the PA and I can definately see Israel wanting Abbas to win.

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If I was Israel I would arm both sides -- just enough to keep them fighting -- not enough to threaten me. I would not want peace!


Of course we should expect our government to be involved. After all democracy (and the choice at the ballot) only matters when the side we want to win wins. Our involvement in this is disgusting.

Re: Israel is arming the PA
 

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SF Chronicle

Cliffs notes: Egypt sent thousands of small arms to the Prime Minister Abbas headed PA security organization with Israel's approval.

Analysis: Does anyone think this is a power play on Israel's part to undermine Hamas? There is a growing level of violence between Hamas and the PA and I can definately see Israel wanting Abbas to win.

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There is a difference between allowing transport through a territory with pre-existing accords and "arming" the PA as the subject states.

Re: Israel is arming the PA
 

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There is a difference between allowing transport through a territory with pre-existing accords and "arming" the PA as the subject states.

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Shhhh.....don't be so precise and accurate. The anti-Israel/pro-terrorist appeasement wing of 2+2 will not like you.

Re: Israel is arming the PA
 

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There is a difference between allowing transport through a territory with pre-existing accords and "arming" the PA as the subject states.

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Shhhh.....don't be so precise and accurate. The anti-Israel/pro-terrorist appeasement wing of 2+2 will not like you.

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Perhaps you have been following the politics over there (I've been busy with other things) but as I understand it the arms are to be used against the group that was elected by the people. Arming a group that is fighting the elected representatives -- which accords would that come under?

Re: Israel is arming the PA
 

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There is a difference between allowing transport through a territory with pre-existing accords and "arming" the PA as the subject states.

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Shhhh.....don't be so precise and accurate. The anti-Israel/pro-terrorist appeasement wing of 2+2 will not like you.

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Perhaps you have been following the politics over there (I've been busy with other things) but as I understand it the arms are to be used against the group that was elected by the people. Arming a group that is fighting the elected representatives -- which accords would that come under?

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I'm sorry, isn't Prime Minister Abbas the leader of the Palestinian Authority? Am I missing something here? Also, if you've been following the news recently, Fatah has proposed new elections soon (which polls show they will sweep in a big way), and because Hamas knows they will lose, Hamas has said they will boycott these elections.

Re: Israel is arming the PA
 

I thought you meant pennsylvania.

Iron, you are using the principle of universality to condemn "our" interference in the affairs of soverign nations. But heaven forbid Iran try to influence Iraq.

" The anti-Israel/pro-terrorist appeasement wing of 2+2 will not like you. "

My ally Saddam was executed tonight. Im sad.

Re: Israel is arming the PA
 

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There is a difference between allowing transport through a territory with pre-existing accords and "arming" the PA as the subject states.

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Shhhh.....don't be so precise and accurate. The anti-Israel/pro-terrorist appeasement wing of 2+2 will not like you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps you have been following the politics over there (I've been busy with other things) but as I understand it the arms are to be used against the group that was elected by the people. Arming a group that is fighting the elected representatives -- which accords would that come under?

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Accords that allow Egyptian shipments into Gaza across the Kerem Shalom crossing.

Re: Israel is arming the PA
 

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Also, if you've been following the news recently, Fatah has proposed new elections soon (which polls show they will sweep in a big way), and because Hamas knows they will lose, Hamas has said they will boycott these elections.

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Abbas doers not have the legal power to call new elections. He may get away with it anyway though.

You may have missed that Hamas won (properly schedled) elections less than a year ago. Yo may also have missed that, while they may well lose this time - although it will be close - much of Fatah's vote will come from people starved into voting for them and the return of rampant corruption and cronyism. How very democratic.

Re: Israel is arming the PA
 

Given that Israel supported the rise of Hamas as a Muslim counterbalance to the secular Fatah movement, this is not surprising.

Re: Israel is arming the PA
 

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Given that Israel supported the rise of Hamas as a Muslim counterbalance to the secular Fatah movement, this is not surprising.

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Odd that. I refer you to my first post in this thread on the best way for Israel to get what it wants -- the absence of a peaceful settlement with Palestinians still living in the WB.

BTW, IMO, it is OK for Israel to want that -- it is simply not OK for the US government to support them in wanting that and for arming them to get that. The fundamental cause of anger and terrorist attacks against the US.

Re: Israel is arming the PA
 

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Abbas doers not have the legal power to call new elections.

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Yes, he does.

Re: Israel is arming the PA
 

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Abbas doers not have the legal power to call new elections.

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Yes, he does.

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OK. Perhpas you're right; my understanding is that he doesn't. Please show me where PA law provides for the president to call for new elections. I have yet to see someone do so.

Re: Israel is arming the PA
 

It's up in the air. From this article:

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The Palestinian basic law, which acts as a constitution, has no provision for calling early elections.

Fatah officials say Abbas can do so by issuing a presidential decree. Hamas says that would be illegal.


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Who knows what will happen. But it seems likely that the U.S. and Israel would favor a broader interpretation that permits an early election. If you are the sort of person who thinks that Hamas is more distasteful than Fatah, is it worth possibly circumventing democracy and the rule of law in order to do so (which seems like a horrific precedent to set), especially considering that a Fatah win is not set in stone?

Re: Israel is arming the PA
 

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It's up in the air. From this article:

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The Palestinian basic law, which acts as a constitution, has no provision for calling early elections.

Fatah officials say Abbas can do so by issuing a presidential decree. Hamas says that would be illegal.


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Who knows what will happen. But it seems likely that the U.S. and Israel would favor a broader interpretation that permits an early election. If you are the sort of person who thinks that Hamas is more distasteful than Fatah, is it worth possibly circumventing democracy and the rule of law in order to do so (which seems like a horrific precedent to set), especially considering that a Fatah win is not set in stone?

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I don;t see how it's "up in the air" unless someone can show that the President specifically has the right to use a decree to call for early legislative elections. Such pro-Hamas sources as The Economist suggest that he doesn't, calling his demand an "empty threat" .

Re: Israel is arming the PA
 

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It's up in the air. From this article:

[ QUOTE ]

The Palestinian basic law, which acts as a constitution, has no provision for calling early elections.

Fatah officials say Abbas can do so by issuing a presidential decree. Hamas says that would be illegal.


[/ QUOTE ]

Who knows what will happen. But it seems likely that the U.S. and Israel would favor a broader interpretation that permits an early election. If you are the sort of person who thinks that Hamas is more distasteful than Fatah, is it worth possibly circumventing democracy and the rule of law in order to do so (which seems like a horrific precedent to set), especially considering that a Fatah win is not set in stone?

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I don;t see how it's "up in the air" unless someone can show that the President specifically has the right to use a decree to call for early legislative elections. Such pro-Hamas sources as The Economist suggest that he doesn't, calling his demand an "empty threat" .

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They have a parliamentary system of government. Early, unscheduled elections happen all the time in that system of government. See, for example, Israel, Great Britain, etc. etc. etc. It doesn't make that system any less democratic, if anything, it makes the system more democratic.

Re: Israel is arming the PA
 

New parliamentary elections happen because the government collapses, parties leave the government, the party in power wants to consolidate power etc.. It normally does not happen against the will of a continuing majority party. That would be a strange practice for a parliamentary democracy.

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It's up in the air. From this article:

[ QUOTE ]

The Palestinian basic law, which acts as a constitution, has no provision for calling early elections.

Fatah officials say Abbas can do so by issuing a presidential decree. Hamas says that would be illegal.


[/ QUOTE ]

Who knows what will happen. But it seems likely that the U.S. and Israel would favor a broader interpretation that permits an early election. If you are the sort of person who thinks that Hamas is more distasteful than Fatah, is it worth possibly circumventing democracy and the rule of law in order to do so (which seems like a horrific precedent to set), especially considering that a Fatah win is not set in stone?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don;t see how it's "up in the air" unless someone can show that the President specifically has the right to use a decree to call for early legislative elections. Such pro-Hamas sources as The Economist suggest that he doesn't, calling his demand an "empty threat" .

[/ QUOTE ]

They have a parliamentary system of government. Early, unscheduled elections happen all the time in that system of government. See, for example, Israel, Great Britain, etc. etc. etc. It doesn't make that system any less democratic, if anything, it makes the system more democratic.

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