Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

I’ve lurked here for a long time, but I’ve never been compelled to post until now. I never really read the Psychology forums until recently, for reasons that will be clearer later on. This will be for some a long boring excursion into one degenerate gambler’s demise that I’m sure you’ve read countless times. Others may actually feel empathy and will relate to what I presume many of you have gone through. While for others it may be a cautionary tale. I’m not writing this for purely selfless reasons (i.e. to warn others of the dangers of gambling or whatnot, although that does play a part), I’m mainly writing this for cathartic and self-therapeutic reasons (as suggested by a therapist). Sometimes it is easier to be honest to a group of strangers in an anonymous forum than it is to be honest with yourself. I know I’ve had blinders on for many many years and I have battled many a demon not understanding the underlying subconscious needs and wants that are driving my oftentimes erratic and self-sabotaging behavior.

I know I will get flamed for this post. I’m expecting the snarky and wittily insightful remarks like “come sit at my table,” “don’t blame poker for your inability to reign in your emotions” or “maybe you just suck at poker.” BTW, I realize that that statement practically invites someone to post those lines verbatim, but I don’t care. What I am hoping for is possibly some encouragement and positive feedback, although from the postings I understand that this is probably one of the lesser read forums. I just hope that my story well get through to someone in similar circumstances and maybe reveal the dark underbelly of poker. Obviously, sites like 2+2 have a vested interest in portraying poker in its best light possible. Reading a site like this would lead a poker novice to overestimate the number of long term winners in poker, because all the posters here seem to be in the magic 2% - 10% (depending on who you believe, I believe it’s closer to the lower end) of long term poker winners. Yes I understand that it is a skewed sample and that the better players tend to study and post more on poker, but that is not my point. What about us 90 + percenters…i.e. the donators?? I suppose, and rightfully so, most poker sites don’t want to kill the golden goose, so they promote poker as a harmless hobby or even a lucrative career choice. What they don’t like to reveal is how insidious and harmful poker can be to those who play despite being severely overmatched, underbankrolled, and undereducated on what appears to be such a deceptively simple game, at least on TV. Add to that those who play despite (or should I say in spite of) being positively pathological in their compulsion to gamble.

All that and I still haven’t said anything about me. Well, how to begin? Well, I’ve played poker for about a decade now. Im in my early 30s now. I started playing mainly as a diversion from school. I thought I could keep in under control. And I did…at first. Somehow, I managed to maintain a 3.8 GPA in college and make it through law school. I have an extremely short attention span, unless it involves gambling. Uh, what was I saying? Nevermind. Ok did I inject some humor in this mawkish topic? Ok, I remember breezing through college, because frankly, college was easy for me. I could gamble and still get high marks in college. There were no consequences to my addiction back then, at least they weren’t readily apparent. Going to law school, well suddenly I was average among my peers. That is very disheartening and quite a blow to my ego, especially to someone who is raised to believe that he is somehow intellectually “gifted.” Invariably, the gambling increased, seemingly in proportion to the difficulty of my coursework. Not a good combination. Somehow, I managed to graduate law school in the top ¼ of my class, whilst being known as the campus slacker. I did as little as possible to get an A, however, success at this level didn’t come as easy as in my undergraduate studies. I am unhappy going to law school, but I grind it out thinking it will pay off later. Ring a bell? I am paying my dues at low limit knowing I will be in the big game soon. God I am sure I am boring what readers I have left, but like I said… this is mainly therapeutic for me.

Fast forward a few years later. Good job, nice car, engaged to a wonderful girl, everything seems to be looking up. Except it isn’t. I used to think that this was what I always wanted. To be materially successful and have a beautiful trophy wife. I was happy the first few years. When you come from middle class to making more than your parents combined your first year out of school it’s quite a culture shock. Yes I had fun, and I worked hard, and I hardly gambled. I thought I had it all. But, there was always that nagging suspicion in the back of my head telling me…this is not what you want. The life of a young layer in a big firm is a life sucker. 40 billable hours a week translates to about 60-70 hours in the office. I worked in Chapter 11 bankruptcies (corporate bankruptcies) which is about as tedious and mind-numbing as law can get. If I wanted to make partner in 8 years I would have to bring in so much dollars to my firm a year. It appreared I had the golden life, but I was dying inside.

I began to see signs of career burnout. It was frightening. Had I worked so hard and so long to do something I hate. Even my fiancé wasn’t much consolation. It became readily apparent that deep meaningful conversations were not her strong suit. I began to suspect that without all the accoutrements of high society, she might not be happy with me. I mentioned resigning and settling for a less demanding career as a government attorney. She balked at the idea. How were we going to make the mortgage payments and keep the fancy cars and such. I said we’ll will just have to downsize I said. She had never worked a day in her life so the prospect of actually working for a living was completely alien to her. I began to see my life circling down the drain. I became deeply depressed and felt my life and career circling down the drain. I suggested to her that maybe we should postpone the wedding. She told me if I wasn’t 100% sure than maybe we shouldn’t get married. It was an empty threat on her part, but in the back of my mind I knew she was right. I called her bluff and called off the wedding. She went ballistic. She said that I would never get anyone of her quality again. She said many many hurtful things which I don’t think I could ever forgive her for, even if they were untrue. I kicked her out of my house and for 2 weeks after she begged me to take her back. I was weak and eventually took her back.

I decided, however, that I would tell her I was leaving my job and I was planning on going back to school to become a teacher. I was only half serious, but I wanted to know how she would react. She placated me and said she would support me in any decision I made. I didn’t believe her. I took a leave of absence from work due to personal issues. People at my work knew I had broken up with her, they didn’t know we were back together. I knew taking an extended leave of absence would torpedo any chance of making partner, but I didn’t care. Work was becoming unmanageable with too many distractions, and by then, I was gambling quite heavily in Atlantic City on the weekends. My mind was always wandering, thinking about gambling. It was my drug. It numbed my brain, between work and my fiancé… I was losing it. The more I gambled, the more I became preoccupied with it. The wedding had become almost a non issue at that point. It was understood we would discuss a date when we got our problems resolved.

I asked for 2 months off so I could get my head in order. I didn’t care what that did to my career. I couldn’t take it anymore. I was unhappy in my career and my life. I didn’t see a way out. But gambling was a salve, it made the pain go away. I am by far a winning player at poker, I tilt too easily. I play oftentimes, not to win money, but to beat certain individuals at my table that had pissed me off in one way or another. Sometimes I would donk off my stack trying to put bad beats on people. At best, I was a break even player, if I didn’t tilt. Consciously I didn’t know where this unwarranted aggressive behavior came from, but I eventually learned that it was one way of lashing out at convenient targets, because the things I truly was angry at I was unable to express my anger at. I was angry at myself, at my fiancé, and to some extent my parents. They had always expected me to be a lawyer or a doctor because I was always told I was “gifted.” Maybe that’s not what I wanted.

Eventually I got tired of driving 2 hours to gamble. So I tired playing online. That’s like going from cocaine to crack (speaking metaphorically of course, not from personal experience). Always in actions, always available, games never break up. At the casino, I would be the last one left when a table broke, I would ask anyone and everyone if they wanted to play heads up or shorthanded, even at games or stakes I wasn’t comfortable with. I was a true degenerate. Magnify that 100 times online. There is never a shortage of games…ever. I started playing my usual stakes online which were mid limits 15-30 to 30-60. For some reason I did well, even though the opponents were tougher online. Maybe it’s because I didn’t try to tilt people or donk off my stack trying to put bad beats on people. Well…I did, but not as much. When people irritated me online I could switch tables. Live in a must move game…not so easy to do. For one glorious month I was consistently beating the mid limits online. I thought I found my true calling. I had read many books and of course 2+2. I knew about pot odds, implied odds, EV, position, etc so I wasn’t a complete fish. However, I glossed over the bankroll suggestions. Variance is a bitch. Yes I know, I wasn’t thinking clearly.

Up until recently, I think, (is it still?) the 100-200 at Pstars was restricted. Meaning you couldn’t sit at the table without a sufficient bankroll. This was to protect the players from going on a bad streak and losing their entire bankroll, at least that’s what I assume. Well I figured those rules don’t apply to me…variance be damned! So I added onto my bankroll through Western Union (which is another story, since they explicity state on their site that they won’t do transfers for gambling purposes…it seems that they have a don’t ask done tell policy with pokerstars and a tacit agreement not to look into it as long as Pstars does it surreptitiously) since I had already had requested and received 3 monthly deposit limit upgrades. So I have a roll big enough for Pstars 100-200 game, but still underbankrolled according to most poker authors. Surprisingly, that wasn’t the problem. It was the 10-20NL game that did me in. I rarely played NL, but once I got a taste. I couldn’t go back to limit. The thought of making several thousand a day like I saw some players do regularly was too great a temptation. So I had a substantial amount of money online, which most of it i deposited rather than winning it. People write about how it stings to build up a big roll and lose it. Well…I t stings more when you put that money in and lose it. At least when you build it up, you didn’t earn it in the conventional sense. Well, needless to say, being a newbie to NL. I lost, and lost big. I kept chasing losses, all the while my life around me was crumbling. My fiancé knew I liked to gamble, but she had never seen me like this. I was dishelved, sometimes I didn’t shower for days. She threatened to leave, which eventually she made good on her threat. Then things got read bad.


Sigh…

It’s 7am…

For all that followed this oft rambling incoherent mess I thank you. If I get some responses I’ll post the rest of my story. Otherwise, I’ll tell it to someone who cares.

Please feel free to respond in any way you see fit, even if it is snarky, mean-spirited and generally unproductive.

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

Post the rest please, I love reading these stories.

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

Godot-

Speaking from first hand knowledge a long rambling post, therapist, or more gambling won't fix your problems.

God is the only one who can change yor heart. He can provide you peace where you thought there could be none.
If you truly seek Him with all your heart He will reveal Himself to you.

There flame on I'm getting pretty good at defending my faith both scientificaly, and theologically. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Good Luck,
Jeff

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

Well, I cant sleep and I kind of feel better after writing that.

Ok…well on with the story. I had proceeded to donk away my entire bankroll playing No limit online, a situation which many of you I’m sure are familiar. I was feeling pretty low about myself. I thought I had discovered my true calling. I was wrong, I just didn’t know it then.

I read up every book on gambling I could get my hands on. I felt like I would come back better than before, knowing how and why and how to plug the leaks in my NL game. However, I got sidetracked and started to look into other forms of gambling. I became obsessed with gaining an edge no matter how small. For example, I read that statistically, the number 1 dog or horse is the statistical favorite, not by much, but a favorite nonetheless. When I was in Vegas I went to a sportsbook that had about 40 simulcast dog races from across the nation. I decided to place $100 on every 1 dog ( I had read this in a book, I forget which though). I actually came ahead about $600. I tried it again I lost about $900 that time. After several repeated trials I ended up about $400. I decided it wasn’t worth the risk and the huge outlay of cash it required. However, I did notice something while looking at the dozens of races. I saw that there might be other opportunities to exploit any small edges in dog racing. I realized in certain situations when one dog scratched and there were several long shots you could theoretically guarantee yourself a win if you bet on all the dogs. It worked thusly: by betting each dog depending on the odds, let’s say you want to win $500 on the winner you would bet like this: if dog 1 was a 4 to 1 favorite you would bet 125 to win, if dog 2 was a 25 to 1 favorite you would bet 20 to win, if dog 3 was 20 to 1 favorite you would bet 25 and so on and so on until you had every dog covered. Now this only works if your total outlay is less than what you expect to win. No sense in better $600 to win $500. Therefore, usually one dog had to scratch or there had to be several longshots for this system to work. Not surprisingly, this situation is not too common, and if you bet big enough to actually win real money the odds get skewed and you could take a bath.

After that realization, I decided that there had to be other edges in gambling that could be exploited. Having so much free time, I read voraciously and thought of ways to exploit any house edges. I decided that I would teach myself card counting. I tried to learn to count cards, but there were so many conflicting theories on the best way. I wasn’t convinced that basic card counting could provide enough of an edge. Besides it seemed like a dreadful grind. It seemed that if online blackjack didn’t use continuous shuffle it would be easy to program a bot to count cards and play perfect strategy for you. I suppose that is why they have continuous shuffle online. I read the book “Bringing down the House” about the MIT students who took Vegas for millions. I wanted to do that, but I didn’t have the patience or the mathematics background to replicate a system like the MIT group did (it was never fully revealed in the book, besides it required an enormous bankroll). Arrogantly, I decided I could come up with a system, despite having no mathematical background whatsoever, just a desire to exploit an edge.

Well, I came up with one. I decided in my years of playing blackjack that over extended periods of time you come upon lucky streaks. Eventually you will win 6 or more hands in a row. Problem is you never know when that hot streak will end so people are afraid to increase their bets. I decided that in order to maximize those streaks and the power of doubling I decided to try some progression blackjack. Basically, flat bet til u win. Then let it ride. Then let it ride again. Sounds simple, right? Basically at a 100-5000 spread blackjack table it only takes 7 wins in a row to hit the table max, less if you win a blackjack or a double down or a split. So I would flat bet 100 and try to get to table max. And then win again with table max and again. Usually I would stop at 8 wins in a row. 8 wins in a row meant $10,000. If you could do that twice in one nice it usually meant you were up a fair amount. So over a 10 hour period I would lose a bunch of minimum bets, but when I did win I won big. And I modified basic strategy a bit. I was thinking of the meta-game. Basic strategy accounts for the best chance of winning a particular hand. However, I figured that the best way to keep a win streak going would not to hit on stiff 15 and 16s, even against Tens and Aces. I would only hit on 12, 13, and 14s. I modified that sometimes and never took a bust card. The reason for that was paradoxically, although hitting a 14 would give you a higher percentage of winning that one individual hand, it would also decrease your odds of stringing a long win streak. Basically, I was trying to get up big before the inevitable Risk of Ruin caught up with me. After all, even with a 49% disadvantage you could go 1 million hands and still be up against the house. Obviously as that number approaches infinity your probability of being up approaches zero. However, the long term mathematically, compared to a human life span is enormous. I have read about people never having a losing year playing blackjack by only using basic strategy, while statistically unlikely, it is well within normal statistical standard deviation.

At the same time, I also concocted a plan for running up a large stake playing poker online. Something that is unique to playing online. The ease and availability of moving games. I decided that I would treat playing poker online like a tournament. The blinds go up, but then so do the pots. I decided to take several shots at my virtual tournament. I would buy in for say $400 and play $400 NL table. Once I doubled or tripled up I would move up to the next limit and so on and so on. It was like a big long tournament, except I got to determine when the blinds went up. Once again, progression betting. I know this is not sound poker strategy, but I didn’t see much difference between this strategy and playing a $400 buy in tourney. The only drawback being that the competition got tougher and tougher as the limits went up. However, if you are in the mindset that it is a tournament you wont feel as bad when you bust your $5000 because you only invested $400 to start and you had a shot at a whole lot more.

I then looked into the stock market for edges. For example scanning all the wire looking for bad news that could negatively impact an industry and shorting the stock in that industry. I also tried to come up with an idea that I called currency “float” that exploits the differences in foreign currency, but that idea requires too much money and may not be legal anways. The reason I post all this is because I want you to be aware that I wasn’t a complete degenerate. I tried to gamble with the best of it and was often trying of thinking in terms of paradigm shifts and meta-game theory. This was when my head was somewhat still clear.

Cont’d

Still Waiting for Godot

P.S. I’ll probably start a new thread for my next installment

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

This is great, keep writing. And keep it in one thread, no-need to post another.

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Godot-

Speaking from first hand knowledge a long rambling post, therapist, or more gambling won't fix your problems.

Sklansky is the only one who can change yor heart. He can provide you peace where you thought there could be none.
If you truly seek Him with all your heart He will reveal Himself to you.

Good Luck,
Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

Tee Hee

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

What does FYP mean?

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

Keep writing, brother. Although not entirely your intention, some people learn from the mistakes made by others and your story may help someone.

Keep it in one thread.

Onaflag.........

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

[ QUOTE ]
What does FYP mean?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed your post.

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

Yes, keep going (and keep it in this thread).

So far, I have to say I don't quite understand the dog # 1 edge, and disagree with the progression blackjack system you came up with. But still, interesting cautionary tale.

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

Ok on with the story. Im in Vegas in June during the WSOP. However, poker isn’t my main focus. Originally it was, but I decide that I’m gonna take a run at blackjack. Starting with about 7k I manage to turn that into 170k over 5 days. Mind you, that is more than a years salary for me. I have never had that much cash in my possession, ever. I am completely freaked out. I can’t believe my luck. On Friday, my ex-fiance calls me. She tells me that she told my boss that I have a gambling problem and that was the cause of my leave of absence and not the breakup. She tells me that she loves me and she did it for my own good. She says that my boss was very understanding and would make sure I got the help I needed. I was livid. How dare she interfere with my life like that. On some level I wanted to believe she truly wanted to help me, but on another I believed she just wanted to see me suffer. I didn’t know what to think. I had so many mixed emotions, the high of my big win yet I could feel my career as an attorney slip away. I was also feeling intense anger toward Allison, but I couldn’t help but feel pangs of longing for her also. I knew she was wrong for me, in the same way I knew gambling was wrong. She was crying on the phone and saying she only was trying to save me. I impulsively said I would fly her out that night. I hadn’t told her about the money, and I didn’t plan too unless things went well.

After we hung up, I called and checked my voicemail at home, I hadn’t in about 3 days. There were several messages left by my boss to call him back immediately. I felt a sense of dread, like when you are 10 and your father is going to be home after work and your going to have to face him. It was Friday in Vegas and it was past 6pm on the East Coast. The office is usually clear of any partners after 4pm on a Friday, just us junior associates. I decided to call anyways as I was 99% sure he would not be there. Thankfully I was right and left a message apologizing profusely about not getting back to him earlier and I would straighten things out on Monday. That gave me two days to come up with a damn good excuse to save my job, which at that time I wasn’t sure if I wanted anyways. But I wanted to keep all my options open.

That really threw a wet blanket on things for the night. I flew Allison out that night. She arrived around 2am. I was so tired I had a limo pick her up and bring her back to the hotel. I had proceeded to go on a drinking binge right after I hung up the phone with my office. I was no longer playing the way I had before and I proceeded to give the casino its money back. Which in turn caused me to drink even more heavily, which in turn caused me to play even worse. After about three hours of this I had erased about 45k of my win. Somehow I managed to find myself to my hotel room and I splashed all the chips and money haphazardly over the nightstand and on the bed. I had forgotten that I hadn’t told Allison about the money. So when she angrily knocked on the door I didn’t think to hide all the chips and cash lying around. She was furious that I wasn’t there to pick her up but when she saw all the money lying around her scowl turned into smile. I remember I fell back into bed and passed out. The next morning I saw that she had neatly arranged all the chips and hundreds into neat even stacks. My head was throbbing and I asked her, “did I really lose 40k last night or was it a dream?” She gave me an astonished look and asked me you mean you had 157k last night ? I had put 10k in the hotel safe so the total figure was about 167, but she was pretty close.

Then the next thing that she said almost made me fall out of bed…”So, does this mean your gonna buy me a new ring?” I almost lost it there. I was incredulous. I assume that she thought that the wedding was back on because I flew her out here. I flew her out here because I wanted to know exactly what she told my boss and who else knew, the status of our relationship was my last priority at that point. I told her no way would I even consider buying a ring until we somehow managed to settle our differences. The thing about my Allison is that she doesn’t like to be left hanging like that. She wants to know right now. I told her I had to think about it before committing to anything like that again. She was obviously unhappy, but I didn’t care. The only thing I wanted to do was to get back at the tables and win my 40k back.

But that wasn’t to be. This was her first time in Vegas, so she asked, no she demanded that I take her to see all the sites. I managed to hit and run a few times and I got about 11k back, but her incessant nagging prevented me from getting any solid streak together. It was amazing how I lost all conception of money at the blackjack tables. It was made painfully clear at dinner at a nice steakhouse when I was debating on ordering the petite or standard filet for 8 dollars more. She said your gonna bet 500 and 1000 a hand on blackjack and your gonna miser over 8 bucks. She was right, but to me it was whether I was hungry enough to eat the larger steak. I relented and paid the extra 8 bucks for the standard filet. But it made me think of how little I value money at the table and how scary that was, like I wasn’t in control or that the chips represented monopoly money. Of course I didn’t finish the steak, but I would’ve been annoyed if I ordered the smaller steak and wanted more.

Only a few days til the main event of the WSOP. It was starting on Thursday the following week and I had already paid the entry fee with my winnings. I had to come up with a good cover story why I couldn’t possibly be back to work before July 16, not that I expected to be at the final table or anything, but you never know. Things went pretty smoothly between me and Allison that weekend. Also she was mistaken on two separate occassions for a pro poker player named Erin Nes (sp?) who apparently got like 10 seconds face time on ESPN coverage last year which she strangely found to be very exciting. I don’t see how it is possible someone would see someone on tv for a few seconds and remember them the next year, maybe she is a bigger star than I imagine. Things seemed like old times that Saturday and I felt like I was being trapped into resuming our relationship through inertia. Because it would be easier to do that than break up again, even though we weren’t officially together.

After she went to bed that night I slipped out of the room with about 20k in chips headed for the BJ tables. For some strange reason, I felt like I was going to lose, maybe it was the guilt, Allison and the impending doom of talking to my boss on Monday, but things didn’t feel right. Maybe it was the incessant phone calls, presumably from Allison wondering where I snuck off to in the middle of the night. I turned off my phone after about the 7th straight call. Regardless I lost that 20k in about 30 minutes. I ran up to the room to grab another 30k and try to win my losses back. Predictably, Allison was sitting up in bed looking as mad as ever. I told her I lost 2k, she seemed to accept that answer, but she refused to let me leave again. Especially after seeing how many chips I had picked up. After arguing back in forth I decided to give in, while in the back of mind I was scheming on how I could work her departure from Vegas into the conversation. It’s too bad she didn’t have a job she had to go back to. Now I had two major unpleasant conversations to look forward to.

Cont'd

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, keep going (and keep it in this thread).

So far, I have to say I don't quite understand the dog # 1 edge, and disagree with the progression blackjack system you came up with. But still, interesting cautionary tale.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well the #1 dog has the inside track, and he is a small statistical favorite given that he has a slightly shorter length to run. Well, I dont think my progression blackjack scheme is foolproof either, i just wanted to get a big run up before the the inevetable risk of ruin set in. Just like the martingdale (sp?) system of doubling your bets until you win could conceivably work for the short term but eventually you will run out of bankroll to cover your losses. It's more of a hit and run system that can ONLY work in the short term (but, the short term could be a long time at least in human terms.)

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

Wow. Good job getting that all out. That alone should help clear your mind of all those thoughts bouncing around.

Have you thought of private law practice? My brother does that and sets his own schedule. He travels many times a year.

Dog betting is for suckers. There is no jockey to control them. I bet greyhounds only a couple times in my life and each dog I picked got hip-checked to the outside wall...

I played blackjack as a counter after work in the mid 80's when I lived in Vegas. I played 3-4 hours each night times 5-6 nights a week, which was too much time at the table to make a profit. I wasn't really trying to score--just pass the time after work. But I did well enough to only lose about $100 per week. In modern times you have too much going against you to make it work even if you hit the table for 45 minutes per night.

The stock market (especially options, commodities and forex) are not vehicles to jump into without having read extensively, got your feet wet (e.g. lost some money testing strategies) having a big bankroll and not least, a clear mind...

You are jumping around from casino game to casino game, B & M to online, cards to tracks to financial markets...Just reading about your jumping around and what you plan to do next is dizzying.

If you could deal with your issues, then focus on one game (such as NL for example), then decide B & M or online, then set playing parameters (certain nights for a certain amount of time), reread some books plug leaks, you could make a fresh start.

It will have to start with clarifying why you want to play. If you want to play for income, then keep a clear head. If playing for fun, then just set a budget to blow each week.

But as I suggeste, clearing up your issues is essential. Your law practice or some other vocation needs to be cleared up, as does the issue of your relationship. You won't play worth a dam if you have no vocation or gaming support from her.

Fortunately, my wife (and mother before she died this year) were happy to brag about my tournament wins. That helps when I play because I'm not worried about them not being behind me. There's enough to think about at the table.

Of course it's nobody's busines if you play poker or whatever, and you don't have to tell anyone if that's what it takes to keep them off your back.

Post more. Good luck in the meantime.

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

Good posts. I hope you're able to see some of your issues more clearly by writing about them.

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

I love reading about people's lives, and I thank you for sharing your story. Some observations that I've made while reading through:

1. Allison does not seem like a good match for you. She changes the tune of her flute according to how much money you're worth at the moment.

2. Stressful situations, as your life seems to have been in the past few weeks? months? is not prime time for heading to Vegas with a few thousand dollars. I understand that gambling is a way to 'get away', but should not be approached by throwing caution to the wind.

I look forward to another installment.

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

Allison sucks

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

Dump that bitch

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

Your posts are EXTREMELY alarming. You sound completely out of control. You remind me of a coke addict in the middle of a major binge. You are not thinking clearly. You definitely are not making sound decisions.

Get out of Vegas. Go home. Give whats left of your money (if there's anything left) to someone you can trust to keep it for you, i.e., your mother. Get to a GA meeting. Call your boss.

I dont think you will take any of the above suggestions. You sound so coked out, so crazy. You sound much younger than mid thirties - no offense. I think that emotional immaturity usually accompanies addictions of all kinds - although it is not the whole story. I dont know what to say to you that would be of any help.

I can imagine a nightmare post from you in 6 weeks saying that you were fired from your job, you are broke, you borrowed all the money you could get your hands on and lost it all, and Allison left when the money did (surprise surprise).


You have major life problems to deal with. I hope you will get to GA and get started before you do irreperable damage to your life and career.


Good Luck to you

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

[ QUOTE ]


There flame on I'm getting pretty good at defending my faith both scientificaly, and theologically. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


[/ QUOTE ]

In other words, after a lifetime of exercise your rationalization skills are unparalleled.

To the original poster: touching story, keep writing...

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

[ QUOTE ]

Get out of Vegas.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's not there anymore. The story isn't finished. He's in therapy. Calm down and develop some reading comprehension before you come out swinging.

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

Very entertaining! 7k to 150k in BJ... you have to be kidding me... This reminds me of that movie 'Joe Dirt' [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

Good story so far. But what happened at the WSOP Main event?

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

I appreciate all the support and encouragement I’ve been receiving since my first post. I braced myself to be mocked and ridiculed but instead all I got was kind words…and I thank you all for that.

In response to the posters commenting on how much of a witch Allison is, well I suppose I hadn’t painted a full picture. I think I stated things too simplisticly, however, I didn’t feel it was important to flesh out every single detail. Suffice to say, I was an unreasonable jerk to her at times as she was to me. I think the last 6 months to a year was like a crucible that tested the strength of our relationship. She was never completely wrong and I was never completely right and vice versa. There are a million shades of gray. Yes, she is materialistic, yes she can be selfish and petty. However, she grew up the only daughter of a surgeon and never had want for any material needs. She grew up in a household where her father showed his love by the things he bought her and I think that she has issues because of that. Her father seems cold and distant, whereas her mother is very warm and affectionate. I wish she would take more after her mother, and I know that she craved attention and acknowledgement from her father, but I don’t think he knows or chooses not to express his love to his daughter and instead chooses to buy her things to prove that she is loved by him. Knowing these things I can understand her obsession with status and class. I’m not excusing it, but I do understand it. On the other hand, despite her materialistic ways she can be one of the kindest loving person at times and that’s why I fell in love with her in the first place.

When you receive a one sided portrait of a person it’s very easy to make snap judgments on that persons character and that is my fault for portraying her the way I did. She does have many redeeming qualities but she is far from perfect. Would I like some things to be different about her? Of course I would. However, if you’ve read my posts I should be the LAST person to point out character defects in another. That being said, it did become more and more apparent that we had many deep differences on our philosophies on life. It’s easy for a couple to get along when things are going well. It’s when things go south is when a couple’s true mettle is tested. I definitely think it’s harder on a person who grew up wealthy to face poverty than someone who wasn’t wealthy growing up. Your childhood affects you in so many ways and as my therapist would say, you spend your entire adult life getting over your childhood.

Ok so back to the story. To those who may be somewhat confused by the timeline, the events I described so far took place between 6 months to 3 months ago. Also, I might add after rereading some of my posts that they tend to be overly long and rambling, filled with grammatical errors and typos. I tend to write in a stream of consciousness fashion and I often don’t stop to correct my grammar except to insert paragraph breaks for readability so I apologize in advance if I my writing is murky at times and I will be more than happy to clear up any misunderstandings.

So I got bed that Saturday night (actually it’s technically about 4am Sunday morning, but you get the picture) wanting, nay dying to get back at the tables. But the argument is not worth it. I would be afraid she might make a scene at the tables if I try to go downstairs again. On the other hand, I am thinking that if we do argue she may give me an ultimatum, her or the gambling. I am afraid I might pick gambling. I am also afraid I might pick her. I don’t want to make that decision right now. Thinking about all these things, she pretends to be asleep. I know she’s not. I don’t know if she believes I am asleep, but I don’t bother to ask. I figure if I can wait out another hour or so I can escape like a thief in the night and face her wrath tomorrow. Except she has cuddled up with most of my chips and money in her bag. I’ll figure how to extract that when she’s asleep or I will take out a cash advance. Although I hate to expose myself to more loses when I have 6 figures in chips in my hotel room. As I sit there formulating what to do when she does actually fall asleep, I Somehow manage to drift off to sleep. I had only about 5 hours of sleep in the last 48 hours and I am exhausted and half drunk.

I know I might end my posts in melodramatic fashion and I admit… this episode may be disappointing to some…kinda like that Sorpanos episode last season where Tony just hangs out with his dad’s mistress. I’ll try to post later but if I don’t get a chance to post later I should be back Tuesday or Wednseday im going to be out of town for a few days.

Still Waiting for Godot (obscure French play reference…look it up)

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

This is a [censored] scary thread. It makes me consider whether or not I would be able to willingly give up Poker - whether or not I'm actually addicted to it.

Also makes me want to cash out everything I have online. This is probably an irrational fear considering the limits I'm playing ($30+3 SNGs) with like a 200+ buy-in bankroll.

Scary shizite.

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

Also waiting to read more as you post. I enjoy your writing style.

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is a [censored] scary thread. It makes me consider whether or not I would be able to willingly give up Poker - whether or not I'm actually addicted to it.

Also makes me want to cash out everything I have online. This is probably an irrational fear considering the limits I'm playing ($30+3 SNGs) with like a 200+ buy-in bankroll.

Scary shizite.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nice to see a fellow snger in the psy forum. I was about to tell OP to try party sngs... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I'll coach him if he wants to [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Get out of Vegas.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



He's not there anymore. The story isn't finished. He's in therapy. Calm down and develop some reading comprehension before you come out swinging.



[/ QUOTE ]

He still sounds crazy and immature. And if he's still gambling I think he's in for serious trouble.

I don't enjoy reading about people describing out of control insane behavior with a boasting undercurrent like there is anything at all to be proud of in his actions.

It screams major denial. Just like his justifications of Allison's behavior screems denial. Denial of who he is, denial of who Allison is, denial of the nature of the relationship, denial of his lack of control over himself and his gambling habits, and I think it's safe to guess - denial of other major issues in his life.

I don't like his writing style - it seems surprisingly illiterate for someone who considers himself such an academic whiz kid. (Overestimation of his own abilities and accomplishments - more denial but mixed with narcissism this time.)

I would not normally be so critical of this type of behavior. I's just that there seems to be an element of pride and boasting throughout his posts that I find offensive considering what he's describing.

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

You have no shot at being a winning gambler.EVER. Your blackjack parlaying nonsense proved that. You can't beat a negative expectation game by making higher negative expectation bets. I only gamble to win money and not for the action and all of that other [censored] casinos try to sell you.

I do not know your financial status. Maybe you can piss away a few hundred grand a year but it seems stupid to me. Try and look at this from the outside and ask what if anything you have gainded from gambling. Now look at what its cost you.I can't go to the store and buy things with action, they usually want money.
In my opinion your girfriend seems like a gold digging [censored]. However if I were her Id rather you spend the money on me than at a fucken card game, so its not totally her fault. Youre a degenerate so shes gonna be there during the good times when money is rolling in and she'll be gone when youre living in a box. I hope she atleast gives good head because she seems pretty worthless otherwise.
Don't play drunk. Plain and simple a bad move.
Don't play sober if you have any value for money. If being piss broke with nothing to show for it play as much as you can. It's your life, you can make your own desisions. Id prefer you not throw it away but thats up to you. I don't buy this garbage that this is a disease. Everything you do has consequnces, I just down think losing all your money gambling is something you should be doing.

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

man your writing style rocks. Write a book! (ala Positively Fifth Street).

To Mockingbird: Consolidated response to both your posts
 

First of all, why the venom and vitriol Mock? Why do my posts make you so angry. And most disturbingly, why not choose to IGNORE them rather than make a fool of yourself in a public forum?? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I will try to respond to each of his criticisms point by point...Although some don't appear to need any rebuttal at all. He seems to be in his own world on some of these... [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]


[ QUOTE ]
Your posts are EXTREMELY alarming. You sound completely out of control. You remind me of a coke addict in the middle of a major binge.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your response to my post is EXTREMELY alarming. You remind me of petty shallow man who has nothing better to do than to try attack someone who is has admitted he has a problem. Did the title of the thread give you a clue? Unless you understand “flameout” as somehow worthy of boasting? I think you missed the ENTIRE point of my posts. I don’t mind criticism, but if you are going to criticize at least read the damn post!

[ QUOTE ]
You are not thinking clearly. You definitely are not making sound decisions.

[/ QUOTE ]

And the award goes to Captain Obvious!


[ QUOTE ]
Get out of Vegas. Go home. Give whats left of your money (if there's anything left) to someone you can trust to keep it for you, i.e., your mother. Get to a GA meeting. Call your boss.


[/ QUOTE ]

You do realize that this is not a day by day account of my life. Rather I am retelling some of the events that have brought me where I am today (for better or for worse) and that you are asking me to go back in time and change events that have already happened? This is a poker site, right? Didn’t the fact that I stated the WSOP main event was scheduled for the following Thursday buy you a ticket onto the clue train? You do realize that the WSOP happened over two months ago, right? Maybe that was too subtle… how about “Im in Vegas in JUNE during the WSOP” and “I couldn’t possibly be back to work before JULY 16” or is that too complicated for you to realize that June and July occurred nearly two months ago. But of course my last two points are significant if you actually read my post before criticizing me, or, in the alternative, you are a grade A moron. Either way, it doesn’t look too good for you buddy.

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think you will take any of the above suggestions. You sound so coked out, so crazy. You sound much younger than mid thirties - no offense. I think that emotional immaturity usually accompanies addictions of all kinds - although it is not the whole story. I dont know what to say to you that would be of any help.


[/ QUOTE ]
You sound much older, perhaps mid 60s – no offense. I think emotional insecurity usually accompanies loneliness and bitterness of all kinds – although it is not the whole story (sometimes being middle aged and working fast food accounts for a lot). I don’t know what to say to you that would be of any help, except invest in a remedial reading program. Or stop taking drugs, I don’t know.

[ QUOTE ]
I can imagine a nightmare post from you in 6 weeks saying that you were fired from your job, you are broke, you borrowed all the money you could get your hands on and lost it all, and Allison left when the money did (surprise surprise).


[/ QUOTE ]
Well I suppose if you would follow the thread you might realize that you might not have to wait 6 weeks for a follow up post. Maybe you are incapable of realizing that I had posted and re-posted in the span of 24 hours. I know those damn date stamps can be tricky to figure out.


[ QUOTE ]
You have major life problems to deal with. I hope you will get to GA and get started before you do irreperable damage to your life and career.


[/ QUOTE ]
Once again, Captain Obvious. I do not deny this, but then you would have to ACTUALLY read my post to discern that.

[ QUOTE ]
Good Luck to you

[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you. I hope your career in fast food goes well also. I hope you are not in a position where you actually have to read or follow orders...if that is the case may God have mercy on us. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
He still sounds crazy and immature. And if he's still gambling I think he's in for serious trouble.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I’ll just abbreviate C.O. I hope you can figure out what that stands for. Hint: I called you that TWICE already. Wait, you might have skipped that sentence, or maybe your reading skills aren’t up to snuff. Ok yes I was crazy…maybe I still am a little bit. At least I am seeking treatment and understand that I can get out of control.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't enjoy reading about people describing out of control insane behavior with a boasting undercurrent like there is anything at all to be proud of in his actions.


[/ QUOTE ]
I don’t know how to respond to this incredulous statement. I find it hard to believe that someone who’s reading comprehension skills that barely rival a chimp could detect something so subtle. (I was being facetious here, I realize that chimps all over the word are taking offense right now…)(Ok I was being doubly facetious there, but I suppose I have to spell everything out for you)


[ QUOTE ]
It screams major denial. Just like his justifications of Allison's behavior screems denial. Denial of who he is, denial of who Allison is, denial of the nature of the relationship, denial of his lack of control over himself and his gambling habits, and I think it's safe to guess - denial of other major issues in his life.


[/ QUOTE ]
“Knowing these things I can understand her obsession with status and class. I’m not EXCUSING it, but I do understand it” my quote. Once again is he not reading my posts? I wonder if he watches trailers from movies and feels qualified to write a movie critique based upon watching a 30 second teaser trailer? I don’t know where you got your dictionary, but in mine excusing and justifying are synonyms. I suppose when someone explains a certain behavior they are automatically JUSTIFYING said behavior. Another thing, why is he reading my posts, or not reading my posts (seems more likely) and yet taking time out to respond, if it makes him soooo angry? As far as the denial, I believe this is covered earlier. But let me reiterate…if I was in denial over control of myself and my gambling habits, would I be in treatment right now? Huh??? I suppose you are able to glean the nature of my relationship with Allison by what I WROTE?? I suppose when I was writing about MY relationship, I was in denial and there was an unknown force guiding my hands to my keyboard, because, obviously, since you gleaned everything you know about MY relationship from what I WROTE….i suppose you know better than me. Sigh….


[ QUOTE ]
I don't like his writing style - it seems surprisingly illiterate for someone who considers himself such an academic whiz kid. (Overestimation of his own abilities and accomplishments - more denial but mixed with narcissism this time.)


[/ QUOTE ]
The irony is delicious. He calls my writing style illiterate, yet he appears to have absolutely no reading comprehension ability. It’s as if has read every third sentence and decided to use that as a basis to make baseless arguments that are completely contradictory to the truth. Also, let me quote myself again… I tend to write in a stream of consciousness fashion and I often don’t stop to correct my grammar except to insert paragraph breaks for readability so I apologize in advance if I my writing is murky at times and I will be more than happy to clear up any misunderstandings.”


[ QUOTE ]
(Overestimation of his own abilities and accomplishments - more denial but mixed with narcissism this time.)


[/ QUOTE ]
“Somehow, I managed to maintain a 3.8 GPA in college” I don’t find that an overestimation at all. I find that an objective statement of my grades in college. Overestimation implies a subjective judgment.

Ok a few sentences down...“Going to law school, well suddenly I was average among my peers.” When I do make a subjective judgment on my academic prowess, I actually call myself average. How is this overestimation?????

Irony but mixed in with envy this time??

[ QUOTE ]
I would not normally be so critical of this type of behavior. I's just that there seems to be an element of pride and boasting throughout his posts that I find offensive considering what he's describing.


[/ QUOTE ]
See above for chimp comment. But I suppose he had to write it again. Maybe he forgot he wrote it the first time? It’s very possible when he proofread it he simply didn’t read it and decided to make sure it got in? But I’ll say it again in case you missed it the first time…I find it laughable that you would be able to detect any undercurrent of pride or boasting considering that you can’t even distinguish between a recollection and contemporaneous writing. I don’t think my writing was unsubtle (that was a double negative, so it means I wasn’t being subtle in my original posts)

One more thing, how do you play poker if you are so unobservant????

Unfortunately, I will be gone for a few days and wont be able to respond back immediately. But I am dying to see his response…. [ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

[ QUOTE ]
This will be for some a long boring excursion into one degenerate gambler’s demise that I’m sure you’ve read countless times.

I’m not writing this for purely selfless reasons (i.e. to warn others of the dangers of gambling or whatnot, although that does play a part), I’m mainly writing this for cathartic and self-therapeutic reasons (as suggested by a therapist). Sometimes it is easier to be honest to a group of strangers in an anonymous forum than it is to be honest with yourself.

I know I will get flamed for this post. I just hope that my story well get through to someone in similar circumstances and maybe reveal the dark underbelly of poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some of you guys are beating a dead horse instead of offering constructive criticism, which is probably because you see elements of you in his story and are engaging in 'reaction formation'.

As far as Godot, you are deviating from your strategy of catharthis and getting wrapped up in ego-based arguments with people that you knew would flame you. This is the same thing that got you in trouble in poker--trying to "get even" with someone specific instead of playing each player objectively.

Part of it may be your law training. Both of my brothers are lawyers, and my son is in law school. One brother has to be right always. The one I spoke about in my previous post doesn't. He' the one that is in solo practice and goes skiing or whatever whenever he want to. But as far as the law training goes, you are playing poker with that training. You won't always be right and you can't file appeals for a bad beat. Revenge is a sure path to a blazing defeat on a macro level.

This is perhaps a reason why you will have trouble gambling on a long-term basis, unless you can bring objectivity into your game.

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

Tek I respect your opinion and criticism, despite the fact that I might not agree with all of them. Even on our disagreements what you say is not without merit and you are able to back up your assertions with credible arguments. You do not, under the guise of criticisms, make thinly veiled ad hominem attacks when they are completely unncessary. I respect that and I respect your difference in opinion on certain matters. However, any debates would almost not be worth it, since there is only marginal daylight between our positions.

You are completely correct about my "ego-based arguments," I felt like I was under personal attack and I lashed out. I think that if I were to calmly reasses the situation I would realize that some points are so obvious that it is futile to argue them, and by engaging in such "ego-based arguments" I am lowering myself to my opponenet. However, I am a man. And as a man I don't take kindly to completely unwarranted and baseless attacks to my person. Yes I was rash, and I understand than some of the anger directed at Mock may be misdirected anger that has simmered in my subconscious at another target. I understand that, and I am working on that. I suppose an apt real world analogy would be if a person spit on you on the street based on completely erroneous prejudices that they hold. That is how I felt. I ignored his first post, as it seemed that Axe set him straight. Yet when he posted his ignorance again, it was too much for me to take. I can accept one mistake, but if you are shown that you are incorrect and continue to engage in said behavior at my expense I will not and can not be expected to like it.

In person, I am the most affable and even keel person you will meet...outside of gambling. This is due to the fact that I am rarely insulted or have personal attacks directed at me, as I am generally well respected among my peers. However, in an anonymous forum, there will be haters that will take potshots at you for no other reason than to appease their egos.

I know you may argue that I am continuing in the behavior that I have just condemened, but right now I am a bit wound up and it is hard to think rationally and constructively due to pressures beyond this forum. I suppose if I had a cooling off period and wrote this when I came back, my response would not seem so vituperative. But I felt compelled to act decisively. Even now, I regret saying many of the things I wrote, but I have to stand by them for better or for worse. These real life "tilt" issues are some things I am working through therapy right now. Oftentimes, the target of my wrath recieves more aggression than is perhaps deserved due to factors that transcend the immediate incident.

I know I am rambling, but I have been up for a long time contemplating my relationship and engaging in self introspection so I am not able to make the most compelling nor coherent arguments. You see, I am in Arizona right now (my home state, another long story why I am here...maybe I'll post why soon) and I will be traveling back east to see Allison. I don't know what the future holds for us right now, but it is an incredibly stressful time for me and that may contribute to some of my erratic behavior lately. I hope you understand and I always appreciate your feedback, even if I disagree.

Take care

Maybe I'll check in when I'm on the East coast. Hopefully people are still interested in hearing my story.

Still Waiting for Godot (did you check it out? If you read French, read it in the original French...the translation loses some of that je ne sais quoi.)

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

BS story written to satisfy what all liars inherently need... attention.

But hey if it makes you feel good lying to a bunch of strangers just for the yak of it go right ahead this is a free country. Some of the people around here actually enjoy your yarn spinning.

I just wanted you to know after reading through your "story" the elements, the treatment, the composition just seem contrived. This is not to say someone couldn't have lived this, but the way you tell it, I don't think you lived it.

Look I have no reason to believe you or disbelieve you, it doesn't gain me anything, but I do want to point out the obviousness of your ploy mostly because it satisfies me to finger liars and call them on it. Maybe that is why I like poker so much hehe.

My BS detector definately went off, and I have a feeling some other people got the same reading.

Have fun! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

[ QUOTE ]
You have no shot at being a winning gambler.EVER. Your blackjack parlaying nonsense proved that. You can't beat a negative expectation game by making higher negative expectation bets. I only gamble to win money and not for the action and all of that other [censored] casinos try to sell you.

I do not know your financial status. Maybe you can piss away a few hundred grand a year but it seems stupid to me. Try and look at this from the outside and ask what if anything you have gainded from gambling. Now look at what its cost you.I can't go to the store and buy things with action, they usually want money.
In my opinion your girfriend seems like a gold digging [censored]. However if I were her Id rather you spend the money on me than at a fucken card game, so its not totally her fault. Youre a degenerate so shes gonna be there during the good times when money is rolling in and she'll be gone when youre living in a box. I hope she atleast gives good head because she seems pretty worthless otherwise.
Don't play drunk. Plain and simple a bad move.
Don't play sober if you have any value for money. If being piss broke with nothing to show for it play as much as you can. It's your life, you can make your own desisions. Id prefer you not throw it away but thats up to you. I don't buy this garbage that this is a disease. Everything you do has consequnces, I just down think losing all your money gambling is something you should be doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I appreciate you making qualitative judgments on whether I have a shot a being a winning gambler EVER. However, I don’t think that was the reason for my post. I am not here trying to prove that I am or was or ever could be a winning gambler. I think you are missing the big picture here. I only wrote what I wrote to get across a message which I think you completely overlooked. Gambling is not the cause of my problems, merely the most obvious symptom. It would be like treating a gunshot wound with a bandage. Sure it will stop the bleeding, temporarily, but it’s not going to cure you of the bullet lodged in your body. I need to remove that bullet.

The relationship that Allison and I have is far too complex to be fully explained on a poker forum. However, I did post earlier about some of the dynamics of our relationship that I hope made her less one dimensional. I think you may have not read it. Or maybe you read it and had already made your mind up about her and nothing further I wrote would dissuade you from your original impression. First impressions are so important.

I don’t feel the need to justify a relationship with someone to a poker forum. I feel that that is probably beyond the scope of what this forum is about. Whether or not we stay together is ancillary to some other deep seated issues being worked out. I’m sure you will have your opinion, and I am not arrogant enough to believe I can change that nor am I terribly inclined to persuade you one way or the other when it comes to her. What I can do is simply present the facts through my lens and you can take that for what it’s worth. I am not her agent nor her promoter, she just happens to be an integral part of my life and the peanut gallery is not going to influence nor define my relationship with her. That is a decision I must make myself.

As for as gambling as a disease, I think I stated pretty clearly that I don’t believe that it is the root cause of my problems, but rather indicative of some deep seated psychic trauma. I have not thought gambling was something beneficial to my life in over a decade, even when I was winning. I have no illusions as to the damage gambling can wreak personally and professionally. I was there. Therefore, while your well meaning albeit misguided attempts to dissuade me from further gambling is hollow, I appreciate the sentiment.

Waiting for Godot

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

[ QUOTE ]
BS story written to satisfy what all liars inherently need... attention.

But hey if it makes you feel good lying to a bunch of strangers just for the yak of it go right ahead this is a free country. Some of the people around here actually enjoy your yarn spinning.

I just wanted you to know after reading through your "story" the elements, the treatment, the composition just seem contrived. This is not to say someone couldn't have lived this, but the way you tell it, I don't think you lived it.

Look I have no reason to believe you or disbelieve you, it doesn't gain me anything, but I do want to point out the obviousness of your ploy mostly because it satisfies me to finger liars and call them on it. Maybe that is why I like poker so much hehe.

My BS detector definately went off, and I have a feeling some other people got the same reading.

Have fun! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

That is an interesting. I am glad there are defenders of truth out there protecting unwary victims of a lying poster. I am so impressed that you taken it upon yourself to be the champion and the savior of the mislead.

I suppose I could respond to your unbelievably articulate and cogent argument why I am lying. But I can’t. Seems as though you have nothing concrete other than your “BS detector” going off. How can I argue that the composition and treatment seem contrived? Do you actually believe what you just said? Did you really think about what you were writing when you wrote this. That is about the most obtuse and non-specific reasons I’ve ever heard. Exactly what does how “the way you tell it, I don't think you lived it" mean. WTF kind of argument is that? I am so glad you are providing specific examples that don’t add up instead of vague specious arguments that basically say nothing. Otherwise, how would I defend myself against your magnificent wit and overwhelming mental superiority?

“Look I have no reason to believe you or disbelieve you, it doesn't gain me anything.” Of course it does, it gives you that feeling of overblown self-importance since you deem yourself to be the protector of the naïve huddled masses of the internet. Perhaps if your fragile ego wasn’t so bruised you wouldn’t feel the need to embolden yourself by putting others down. I pity you. Perhaps you were unloved and feel that you must show your worth any way how. Yet you only throw out vague accusations without anything to back them up.

“I do want to point out the obviousness of your ploy mostly because it satisfies me to finger liars and call them on it.” Yes you must be satisfied, making anonymous and baseless accusations against someone because you have a “feeling” and then slinking under a rock where you belong. You would like to point it out because it’s so obvious, but you won’t because it satisifies you to finger liars. So you are satisfied simply by making your ridiculous accusations with absolutely no empirical evidence. Why doesn’t the FBI hire you as their top man, since you can “fingering liars” based upon a gut feeling. Wow, your logic is astounding!

I think you are a 33 year old loser with no friends and lives in his mother’s basement, because I have a feeling. I have a “gift” for fingering losers like you. It gives me great satisfaction pointing that out, that I am a much better person than you are. Now, disprove that. And disprove that you are a virgin, because I have a feeling about that also.

Perhaps you can come back with specific examples why you think I am lying. Similar to how I demolished your pathetic excuse for an argument. I will be awaiting your response when I come back on Tuesday.

Waiting for Godot

BTW you would've made a great witness during the Salem Witch hunt.

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

it really does reek of trolldem doesn't it.

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

Your reaction to my post is exactly what I predicted it would be and is all the proof I need. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

But I can't take too much credit, it was your reply to Mockingbird's post that really tipped me off.

I'm glad you took the time to respond to my post, but I knew you would. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I'll end my post with a quote from a man much smarter and much wiser then me,

"It's not always possible to catch liars by listening to what they have say, but you can almost certainly catch liars by watching how they react."

Have fun! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

[ QUOTE ]
My BS detector definately went off, and I have a feeling some other people got the same reading.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea me too. the original story was pretty good though.

Re: Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)
 

Hello Godot:

if you indeed intend to have a therapeutic experience, I suggest you consider but do not reply to posts that offend you. It is not merely a waste of time, but positively damaging to your state of mind.

Just some thoughts:
1) About Allison - I'll be blunt: do yourself a favor and don't think with your dick. Been there, done that. Not good for you. Having read your description of her (both good and bad), I do not see how she is the right person for you. Sounds like a shallow person. I think you're deeper than that. If you stick with her, you will truly regret that one day. Those looks will go and you will be stuck with a bitch.
2) Gambling - forget it.
3) Your mental state - you are a clever guy, but unfortunately intelligence does not correlate with happinness and true success in life. You need to get some fresh thoughts. New thoughts create new life. I suggest the following for starters: Wayne Dyer, "Your Erroneous Zones" (Not "Errogenous Zones", the book is about soft spots in your head, not hot spots on your body lol).
4) and lastly.... take life with a grain of salt. You take yourself way too seriously. Your ego will only keep you trapped in the world of conflict, pain, and deep unhappiness. You're on the way to learning that. Expensive but necessary lessons.

All the best man.

Bohemian