Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

I had a talk with my parents today. They understand my dedication and love for poker (probably an addiction). I am planning on applying for a position as a special agent in the FBI. I am a senior in college and seem to have all the qualifications that the federal job wants.

they told me though that the FBI looks down on any form of "gambling" which obviously many would say poker goes along with. I have thought of this but haven't placed too much into it.

Along with poker I am a blackjack player (occ.) and a sports bettor.

Does this basically mean all this enjoyment I get has to be abruptly quit?

Sorry I am making this kind of short. I'm tired as hell, this is on my mind and thought it would be helpful to wake up to some early repsones to this dilemma.

I would love the potentail job but I don't see how sports betting/poker can NOT be in my life.

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

I would have hoped that in this day and age, the only potential employer looking down on poker would be the church?

I am a chartered architect for local governemtnt in the UK and I am proud to tell anyone that I play poker (I even play at work at lunchtimes, on my laptop)

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

This may be a stupid question, but how will they find out? I know they run background checks and stuff, but unless you tell them I don't think they're going to find anything. And if they can somehow find out that you play on stars are whatever, quitting now probably won't make a difference, the damage has been done.

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

You knew these jokes were coming, so I'll start it off.

You should quit poker, for reasons other than your future job.

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

Look for yourself.

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

[ QUOTE ]
This may be a stupid question, but how will they find out?

[/ QUOTE ]

They know what color underwear you're wearing, they're the FBI... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

GL gators.

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

[ QUOTE ]
You knew these jokes were coming, so I'll start it off.

You should quit poker, for reasons other than your future job.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obv. because you think I suck. Maybe one day we will get along.

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

[ QUOTE ]
This may be a stupid question, but how will they find out? I know they run background checks and stuff, but unless you tell them I don't think they're going to find anything. And if they can somehow find out that you play on stars are whatever, quitting now probably won't make a difference, the damage has been done.

[/ QUOTE ]

A friend of mine once went for an FBI job. Their background check is just sick. They have you list every person you know as far back as you can remember and they actually contact almost all of the people listed and ask these people extremely in-depth questions about you.

Poker and BJ will be black marks...

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would have hoped that in this day and age, the only potential employer looking down on poker would be the church?

I am a chartered architect for local governemtnt in the UK and I am proud to tell anyone that I play poker (I even play at work at lunchtimes, on my laptop)

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't necessarily have to do with morality. They do not want to hire anyone who is at risk (in their judgement) of ever being in desperate straights. In other words, no one goes into the FBI thinking "after a few years I will begin selling inside info to organized crime or foreign governments", but it does happen. And it is usually done by agents who are bankrupt, in debt, alcoholics, etc. Gambling is a red flag for them. Sports betting is probably a huge red flag.

Someone mentioned the background checks involving contacting teachers, friends, neighbors, etc. This is true. They also give you a lie detector test. They will definitely ask you about gambling, drinking, smoking weed (OK if not in the last 3 years), etc.

Unless all of your sportsbetting was done in Nevada, I am thinking that mentioning this at any point would be a deal breaker. Unless you speak Arabic or have some other skill they are desperate for.

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

This has to be a gimmick account! Well if nothing else, at least you keep entertaining me.

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

FGators, neither your parents nor anyone who posts here is likely to be an expert on this, so you should realize that we are mostly using educated guesses. Maybe you could contact a former agent or applicant? In other words, someone who definitely knows what they are talking about.

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

They will most likely find that you have a risk taking personality when they sike test you. (Personality Profile Testing)

Anyway, the FBI (or any Gov/Military) will more than likely toss you app when they find out you gamble. Very hi security risk. You will never get a top secret clearance as a confessed poker player. If you lie and they find out later, not good.

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

There is nothing officially mentioned as being a disqualifier regarding any form of LEGAL gambling.

As long as it's LEGAL, you should be fine.


Things that disqualify you are things like illegal drug use, illegal activities, alcohol abuse requiring counseling, bad credit, etc.



AB

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

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You will never get a top secret clearance as a confessed poker player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read em' and weep......

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

What if you just cut out online poker?

If you went to the FBI recruiter or whoever and asked them, and they said that you should quit playing, except for private home games with friends, could you? If you couldn't, wouldn't that signify that either you lack sufficient willpower and could be a security risk, or that working for the FBI just isn't that important to you?

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You will never get a top secret clearance as a confessed poker player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read em' and weep......

[/ QUOTE ]


You're spewing BS. Unless you have a LINK to verified documentation, STFU.

AB

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

I would think any illegal activity would kill your chances, and for US citizens, online poker for $$ is illegal.

In today's age of accepted gambling, I really don't think being an occasional blackjack bettor or sportsbettor would have an impact, providing it is done legally. LEGALLY is the key word. Give them any inclination that you are "addicted" to poker/gambling and you are toast. But recreational gambling, IMO, should have no bearing. Op, if you are serious about getting an FBI job, you need to kiss online poker goodbye. Save your blackjack for the OCCASIONAL trip to the casino. And sportsbetting ONLY in Las Vegas (if you ever go).

Be honest with yourself about what you really want.

gl

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

[ QUOTE ]
What if you just cut out online poker?

If you went to the FBI recruiter or whoever and asked them, and they said that you should quit playing, except for private home games with friends, could you? If you couldn't, wouldn't that signify that either you lack sufficient willpower and could be a security risk, or that working for the FBI just isn't that important to you?

[/ QUOTE ]


Online poker is not illegal to play (except in some states like Washington).

Security clearances are based on your not having the following derogatory information, as specified in Title 10, part 710 of the Federal code:



§710.8 Criteria.

Derogatory information shall include, but is not limited to, information that the individual has:

(a) Committed, prepared or attempted to commit, or aided, abetted or conspired with another to commit or attempt to commit any act of sabotage, espionage, treason, terrorism, or sedition.

(b) Knowingly established or continued a sympathetic association with a saboteur, spy, terrorist, traitor, seditionist, anarchist, or revolutionist, espionage agent, or representative of a foreign nation whose interests are inimical to the interests of the United States, its territories or possessions, or with any person advocating the use of force or violence to overthrow the Government of the United States or any state or subdivision thereof by unconstitutional means.

(c) Knowingly held membership in or had a knowing affiliation with, or has knowingly taken action which evidences a sympathetic association with the intent of furthering the aims of, or adhering to, and actively participating in, any foreign or domestic organization, association, movement, group, or combination of persons which advocates or practices the commission of acts of force or violence to prevent others from exercising their rights under the Constitution or Laws of the United States or any state or subdivision thereof by unlawful means.

(d) Publicly or privately advocated, or participated in the activities of a group or organization, which has as its goal, revolution by force or violence to overthrow the Government of the United States or the alteration of the form of Government of the United States by unconstitutional means with the knowledge that it will further those goals.

(e) Parent(s), brother(s), sister(s), spouse, or offspring residing in a nation whose interests may be inimical to the interests of the United States.

(f) Deliberately misrepresented, falsified, or omitted significant information from a Personnel Security Questionnaire, a Questionnaire for Sensitive (or National Security) Positions, a personnel qualifications statement, a personnel security interview, written or oral statements made in response to official inquiry on a matter that is relevant to a determination regarding eligibility for DOE access authorization, or proceedings conducted pursuant to §710.20 through §710.31.

(g) Failed to protect classified matter, or safeguard special nuclear material; or violated or disregarded security or safeguards regulations to a degree which would be inconsistent with the national security; or disclosed classified information to a person unauthorized to receive such information; or violated or disregarded regulations, procedures, or guidelines pertaining to classified or sensitive information technology systems.

(h) An illness or mental condition of a nature which, in the opinion of a psychiatrist or licensed clinical psychologist, causes or may cause, a significant defect in judgment or reliability.

(i) Refused to testify before a Congressional Committee, Federal or state court, or Federal administrative body, regarding charges relevant to eligibility for DOE, or another Federal agency's access authorization.

(j) Been, or is, a user of alcohol habitually to excess, or has been diagnosed by a psychiatrist or a licensed clinical psychologist as alcohol dependent or as suffering from alcohol abuse.

(k) Trafficked in, sold, transferred, possessed, used, or experimented with a drug or other substance listed in the Schedule of Controlled Substances established pursuant to section 202 of the Controlled Substances Act of 1970 (such as marijuana, cocaine, amphetamines, barbiturates, narcotics, etc.) except as prescribed or administered by a physician licensed to dispense drugs in the practice of medicine, or as otherwise authorized by Federal law.

(l) Engaged in any unusual conduct or is subject to any circumstances which tend to show that the individual is not honest, reliable, or trustworthy; or which furnishes reason to believe that the individual may be subject to pressure, coercion, exploitation, or duress which may cause the individual to act contrary to the best interests of the national security. Such conduct or circumstances include, but are not limited to, criminal behavior, a pattern of financial irresponsibility, conflicting allegiances, or violation of any commitment or promise upon which DOE previously relied to favorably resolve an issue of access authorization eligibility.



I highlighted one thing: Financial responsibility. This means that you pay your debts, and that your debts are small. Here is where gambling *can* come in. I you gamble abusively, and have a problem that creates debt, it is the *problem* gambling that creates scrutiny.

If you are a 2+2er, and play poker *profitably*, then it is not an issue, so long as you play legally. the Supreme Court HAS RULED that poker is not gambling but a GAME OF SKILL. Regardless, you need to show *financial responsibility* here, not abstinence from poker.


Regards,

AB

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

http://www.fbi.gov/clearance/securityclearance.htm

They pretty much toss your app while going through this process….

Applicants must meet certain criteria, relating to their honesty, character, integrity, reliability, judgement, mental health, and association with undesirable persons or foreign nationals.

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would think any illegal activity would kill your chances, and for US citizens, online poker for $$ is illegal.gl

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to shout this really loud so everyone can hear:


IT IS NOT ILLEGAL FOR US CITIZENS TO PLAY POKER ONLINE.

It is illegal for US financial institutions to transfer money directly to a gambling site, but it is NOT ILLEGAL TO PLAY.

In SOME STATES, like Washington State, it IS ILLEGAL TO PLAY ONLINE, but not for US citizens in general.


You may now return to your regularly scheduled posting.



AB

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.fbi.gov/clearance/securityclearance.htm

They pretty much toss your app while going through this process….

Applicants must meet certain criteria, relating to their honesty, character, integrity, reliability, judgement, mental health, and association with undesirable persons or foreign nationals.

[/ QUOTE ]


Assuming facts not brought into evidence. Not ONE mention of gambling nor poker in that link you listed, and I listed the ACTUAL FEDERAL STATUTE that defines the exceptions.

Get lost troll.


AB

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

You're not getting it. It's not that its illegal. It's gambling. Specifically tightened up after 911 as a security risk. You will not get a top secret clearance as a know gambler. If you lie and they find out.....

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

Yawn. I listed the federal statute. Read it in my post above.


AB

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yawn. I listed the federal statute. Read it in my post above.


AB

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I know two regular weekend players at the Borgata who play live solely because they state any significant amount of online play would prevent them from getting national security clearance. It is not illegal so it is a judgement call, a single deposit and playing for a month is probably not a enough to disqualify you but significant gambling of any kind or any attempt to make money at gambling over a long period of time is considered to be a character defect. Basically a part time poker player is lumped in with those degenerates investing in schemes to beat roulette, that's our government.

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're not getting it. It's not that its illegal. It's gambling. Specifically tightened up after 911 as a security risk. You will not get a top secret clearance as a know gambler. If you lie and they find out.....

[/ QUOTE ]

this is ridiculous to think that everyone w/any type of high security clearances has never been to vegas, etc.

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

The govenment can do whatever it pleases. i had a friend kicked off of the police force (like regular town police)because he was suspended in high school for having caffiene pills on his person (not illegal).

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

[ QUOTE ]
The govenment can do whatever it pleases. i had a friend kicked off of the police force (like regular town police)because he was suspended in high school for having caffiene pills on his person (not illegal).

[/ QUOTE ]

lol.. did he give you a parking ticket or something?

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

anyone with 4,000 posts should make 10x more than the FBI will pay.

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The govenment can do whatever it pleases. i had a friend kicked off of the police force (like regular town police)because he was suspended in high school for having caffiene pills on his person (not illegal).

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lol.. did he give you a parking ticket or something?

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lol, I should have said: A friend of mine was kicked off the police force because .....

if they can kick off him for this they can deny someone an FBI job for having a gambling habit.

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

[ QUOTE ]
I had a talk with my parents today...they told me though that the FBI looks down on any form of "gambling" which obviously many would say poker goes along with. I have thought of this but haven't placed too much into it.


[/ QUOTE ]

I am sorry to say this but there is nothing else to be done.

Kill your parents. Lie to the FBI. Happy Xmas Eve.

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

Alcohol is legal, but the FBI isn't going to hire you if you get wasted every night. They don't mind if you have a few drinks once in a while. It is the same with gambling. OP, obviously you've had to deal with the majority of people you mention poker to not understanding your hobby or thinking you're a degenerate. What makes you think the FBI would be different? If you're not sure about this, contact an FBI recruiter to find out for sure.

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

I have a top secret clearance and play online. It is not a problem. Seriously.

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

I told everyone so... LOL


AB

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

to get this clearance you are going to have to take a lie detector test. This may or may not be one of the questions. Whatever you do, don't lie. If they don't want you because you gamble then you are going to have to find a different job. They are going to ask about your history of gambling, not what you do now or what you plan to do. This is who you are and there is no way around it. Fess up to everything. I have a friend to get hired with a clearance and he was honest about past drug use and he still got the clearance

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

lie detector tests

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

Sounds like you have a problem, unless you are betting for a second income i would stop and get a grasp on your career first

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

I would worry more about illegal drug use than poker. Their illegal drug lines are pretty f'ing strict. I would imagine it would disqualify most people.

I also suspect not passing the lie-detection test or having "murky" results will not neccesarly disqualify you, and you certainly wont get arrested or any such thing. Lie-detectors dont exactly have a history of being proven to work. There are too many false positives to rely on it too much.

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

http://antipolygraph.org/lie-behind-...e-detector.pdf

I would read this if you are considering working for the FBI. This talks about the polygraph test, the problems it has, and how to pass it and not get a false positive.

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

I don't get it. You need your parents permission to play poker and you want to work as a special agent for the FBI.

Like...seriously?

Re: Parents say Quit Poker...FBI
 

A little prudence wouldn't hurt here.

I mean, if you seriously want to be an FBI special agent, would it really hurt so much to give up gambling until you've got the job and/or found out first hand what's permissible?

We can argue until we're all blue in the face as to whether your poker/BJ playing would disqualify you, but it's certainly easy to see that not playing will do you no harm in that regard.

If giving up gambling and/or poker would cause you that great a hardship, maybe they'd be right not to hire you. Optional activities that can easily be given up generally aren't a problem. Optional activities that aren't easily given up generally are.