Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Being on a better team with a better offense should really improve his shooting percentage.

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt it. He's been between 40% and 42% for pretty much his whole career, and Philly hasn't sucked in each of those years. I don't think there's even a correlation between AI's shooting percentage and his team's winning percentage, let alone a causation.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Being on a better team with a better offense should really improve his shooting percentage.

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt it. He's been between 40% and 42% for pretty much his whole career, and Philly hasn't sucked in each of those years. I don't think there's even a correlation between AI's shooting percentage and his team's winning percentage, let alone a causation.

[/ QUOTE ]

But I don't recall them having another scoring option anywhere near as effective as Melo.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

[ QUOTE ]
pretty crazy squad there in denver.

Camby
AI
Melo
Boykins
Najera

moving JR to the bench will help with the lack of depth with the departures of Miller and Smith.

Philly, whatever. King will [censored] up those two picks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nene will start at the 4. Najera played as Nene recovered from his knee reconstruction, but Nene has been getting more PT and started the Knick game.

Smith didn't play too much, and that was becoming even less as Nene has been healthy.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

Crazy... when was the last time two #1 picks were traded for one another?

In other news, the top 2 picks from the vaunted 1996 draft (some consider it to be the best of all time, definitely top 3 of all time, with Kobe, AI, Peja, Jermaine, Nash, Allen, Starbury, Camby, etc etc etc) are on the same team now! Powerhouse!

I can't wait to watch the Nugs. Well, 14 games from now.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think Boykins will start at PG.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, but this team doesn't really have a true point in that they look to run a lot. Their most effective offensive lineup had Boykins and Miller in the game at the same time with both looking to push the pace. AI and JR will be in the backcourt a lot too.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think there's even a correlation between AI's shooting percentage and his team's winning percentage, let alone a causation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please explain! If AI could magically convert one missed shot per game into a make during his career, wouldn't logic dictate that his teams would have won at least a few more games?

With scoring margins as narrow as they are, you'd think one additional make (vs. a miss) could be as valuable as four or five wins per year. If a make is worth 2 pts, a miss is probably worth less than half a point (since some makes are rebounded by a team-mate and scored). That's over 1.5 pts more per game.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

[ QUOTE ]

But I don't recall them having another scoring option anywhere near as effective as Melo.

[/ QUOTE ]

And they can play inside/outside (as opposed to two good guards), so won't that make them even more dangerous? I think it's going to be a nightmare to help on AI without leaving Melo one on one, and vica versa.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

if his FG% goes up, it's because he takes better shots, and less of them, due to the presence of Carmelo.

He would've shot less and taken better shots if he ever had a decent second option to go with him. Instead, he had to huck up a ton of shots. He had to get the ball every time the shot clock was winding down.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think Boykins will start at PG.

[/ QUOTE ]

i really like boykins but there's no way they can defend anyone with boykins and iverson in the backcourt

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

Offensive rebounders will thrive w/ AI. Camby, Evans & the big men should get a lot of easy putbacks.

edit: Also, someone gets screwed off the Western AllStar team now.

Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

ESPN

To Denver:
Allen Iverson
"perhaps another minimum-salaried player or two."

To Philadelphia:
Andre Miller
Joe Smith
Two 2007 1st Round Draft Picks

I guess it all depends on who the draft picks end up being..

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

I think everyone here is missing the fact that can AI adjust to the altitude?

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

pretty crazy squad there in denver.

Camby
AI
Melo
Boykins
Najera

moving JR to the bench will help with the lack of depth with the departures of Miller and Smith.

Philly, whatever. King will [censored] up those two picks.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I guess it all depends on who the draft picks end up being..

[/ QUOTE ]

It's Dallas's and Denver's picks, so probably not great players as they will be in the 20s.

I think Philly should have held out trying to get Livingston, Foye, Harris, or Green.

As for Denver, I guess they are planning on a lineup of Iverson-Smith-Anthony-Najera-Camby.

It looks pretty intimidating, but they still have no offense in the frontcourt, and I wonder how much Iverson will accept a true point guard role next to Anthony and JR. Should be interesting to follow.

I am so glad the Celtics did not get him though, as I can finally change my avatar.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

That's more than I thought they'd get for him.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think Boykins will start at PG.

[/ QUOTE ]

i really like boykins but there's no way they can defend anyone with boykins and iverson in the backcourt

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree can you imagine those two guarding Chauncey and Rip?

i think boykins will be coming off the bench and he will see a serious decline in minutes.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

I think Boykins will start at PG.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

FWIW, Boykins, Melo, AI, and Camby will be tons of fun to watch. Still can't believe AI is out of philly.....wow. Maybe KG will be moved soon.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

[ QUOTE ]
That's more than I thought they'd get for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

if dre miller can be traded again before the trade deadline, i think that's where his true value lies.

otherwise, hes totally useless on a rebuilding team, and that philly got fleeced.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

It will be very interesting to see how Iverson meshes in Denver. Being on a better team with a better offense should really improve his shooting percentage. And if it doesn't, that says a lot about the real value of AI.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think there's even a correlation between AI's shooting percentage and his team's winning percentage, let alone a causation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please explain! If AI could magically convert one missed shot per game into a make during his career, wouldn't logic dictate that his teams would have won at least a few more games?

With scoring margins as narrow as they are, you'd think one additional make (vs. a miss) could be as valuable as four or five wins per year. If a make is worth 2 pts, a miss is probably worth less than half a point (since some makes are rebounded by a team-mate and scored). That's over 1.5 pts more per game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, yes, if he had played better they probably would have won more. What I mean is that you don't see his FG percentage go up and down based on the quality of the team around him.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

The defensive headache that will be choosing between AI and Melo will be giving opposing coaches nightmares for the rest of the season.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

Best case scenario for Philly:

-Andre Miller is content and plays hard. If so, he can definitely be a strength at PG for them for at least 5 more years

-AI2 uses this opportunity to continue to develop and get a lot more shots this year

-The 76ers totally tank this year and get either Oden, Durant, or Noah(hopefully Oden)

-The 76ers can package those 2 draft picks and a veteran to move up a bit in the draft a bit and get a SG/SF. Obviously drafting well is key here. I really like Corey Brewer's game...I think that he has what it takes to be a lock down NBA defender, which is rare. If they got Brewer and Oden, they would instantly be one of the better defensive teams in the league. Brewer right now is projected to go 20th at nbadraft.net. Or if they want more offense then how about Daequan Cook or Alando Tucker? Tucker right now is projected at 30th, which seems low to me. Seeing that maybe actually they shouldn't even move up and just draft 2 prospects here and hope one of them turns out good. Maybe take one guy with high upside like Cook or Rodney Stuckey and one guy who is more of a sure thing like Tucker.

That leaves them with:

PG Miller
G AI2
G Whomever they draft
F/C Durant/Oden/Noah
F/C ????
6th man Korver

Joe Smith and Webber are obviously gone in a few years, and they'll have a ton of cap room to try to lure a decent big man to play there.

Obviously they'd need some luck and some breaks, but I think that every team looking to rebuild needs that. All you can do is put yourself in position where if you do get those breaks then you'll succeed. I think they may have done that.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Being on a better team with a better offense should really improve his shooting percentage.

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt it. He's been between 40% and 42% for pretty much his whole career, and Philly hasn't sucked in each of those years. I don't think there's even a correlation between AI's shooting percentage and his team's winning percentage, let alone a causation.

[/ QUOTE ]He has never had another great player to take the defense's focus off of him.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

I don't think Miller get can get traded before the deadline since there's something like a 2 month period before a player that got traded can get traded again, but I'm not sure of the timeline exactly.

What's going to be interesting about the Nuggets is that for the next 15 games, AI will clearly be the focus, and the team will probably do pretty well- it's somewhat similar to 01 team that AI took the finals- the front court has strong defensive players/offensive rebounders to pick up his misses, and he's clearly the number one option on offense. However, when Melo comes back, there will be the alpha dog issue. I forsee them having a much better record w/o Melo, especially given their schedule, than with him.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

have the top 2 scorers in the league ever been from the same team?

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

[ QUOTE ]
However, when Melo comes back, there will be the alpha dog issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

You underestimate George Karl's leadership (he is the real GM and the reason why Kiki = gone) and exaggerate Melo' perceived selfishness. Melo shoots largely because no else can, and his + .500 FG% and willingness to pass out of double teams (his assists are up 1.5/game) speak to the fact he isn't the chucker he was just a few years ago.

They also score on the run a lot, they aren't a half court offense.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

I know nothing about basketball. I have a question that I haven't seen addressed here.

Did all of the suspensions prompt this deal? Was Denver seriously considering going after this guy before the suspensions?

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

Yeah. The last time was the 1982-83 Nugs with Alex English and Kiki 1-2 during the Doug Moe run and gun days. BTW, Moe is assistant coach and Karl is encouraging a similar run and score style of play.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know nothing about basketball. I have a question that I haven't seen addressed here.

Did all of the suspensions prompt this deal? Was Denver seriously considering going after this guy before the suspensions?

[/ QUOTE ]

Denver has had a base package of their 2 1st round 2007 picks and Joe Smith (who is expiring salary cap space) on the table since AI demanded the trade some two weeks ago. The Nugs and Sixers discussed a similar structured deal for AI in the offseason.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think everyone here is missing the fact that can AI adjust to the altitude?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's going to make his hangovers feel even worse, so don't expect to see him at practice.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Being on a better team with a better offense should really improve his shooting percentage.

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt it. He's been between 40% and 42% for pretty much his whole career, and Philly hasn't sucked in each of those years. I don't think there's even a correlation between AI's shooting percentage and his team's winning percentage, let alone a causation.

[/ QUOTE ]He has never had another great player to take the defense's focus off of him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, it's conceivable that his FG% will go up because of this...BUT he has played with a variety of different players through his whole career and never really much change in his FG%. It just seems to me that his style of play is the significant factor in determining his FG%, not his teammates. We'll see, though, the argument that his FG% will go up has some merit.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think Boykins will start at PG.

[/ QUOTE ]

i really like boykins but there's no way they can defend anyone with boykins and iverson in the backcourt

[/ QUOTE ]GOOD POINT. I hadn't thought about this, but since they run so much, this might not be a big problem.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

Seems like any success with this experiment in Denver is going to require one of those two players to take on a lesser role. I don't think that's going to be as easy as most people seem to I guess. I'll take a wait and see approach.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think everyone here is missing the fact that can AI adjust to the altitude?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude's been sleeping at Arenas' place, no need to worry.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

if both players are able to maintain their current FGA average, look out.

Melo at 24 per game
AI at 24 as well

http://www.nbcsports.com/nba/600326/detail.html


Could be bananas.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think everyone here is missing the fact that can AI adjust to the altitude?

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't you adjust within like two weeks.

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think everyone here is missing the fact that can AI adjust to the altitude?

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't you adjust within like two weeks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on personal experience it takes a bit longer than that, more like a couple of months. Then again, it might be easier for a highly trained athlete.

If everyone at Denver buys into this I can see AI getting significant increases in assists per game.

Swede

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

[ QUOTE ]

http://www.nbcsports.com/nba/600326/detail.html


[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, his sample size seems really really small to be drawing any conclusions whatsoever. Or, to look at it another way, let's say that the chances of a team winning are 50% in each scenario. What are the chances of the author going through the data and NOT jumping to some conclusion? Also, why 4?

Re: Iverson Traded to Denver...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah. The last time was the 1982-83 Nugs with Alex English and Kiki 1-2 during the Doug Moe run and gun days. BTW, Moe is assistant coach and Karl is encouraging a similar run and score style of play.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Lakers of a few years ago were close. Shaq and Kobe were ranked #3 and #4 in 2000-01 and #4 and #2 in 2002-03.