1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

Is the call on 4th too lose? How should I play 5th? And once I got my flush, re-raise or go for the overcalls?

Or more to the point- did I play this hand correct on any street?

7 Card Stud High ($1/$2), Ante $0.10, Bring-In $0.50 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 7: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises
Hero: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (4.60 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (3.80 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets

6th Street - (6.80 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

River - (9.80 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___folds
Seat 7: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___bets
Hero: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

Total pot: (11.80 BB)

Re: 1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

Fold 3rd, Fold 4th, Fold 7th.

Re: 1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold 7th.

[/ QUOTE ]???

Re: 1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

I don't mind peeling one off on 3rd since there is only 1 diamond gone. I would toss in the towel on 4th when I bricked, but since you didn't, I would bet the open 5's on 5th & represent a hand. You have a flush on 6th, why are you just calling???

Re: 1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You have a flush on 6th, why are you just calling???

[/ QUOTE ]Going for the overcall.

(Note- I don't usually play as passivly as my last couple of posts might indicated. I post hands I think I played badly, not the good ones).

Re: 1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would toss in the towel on 4th when I bricked

[/ QUOTE ]Wasn't a total brick- I now have a 3 straight and a 3 flush, both of which are pretty live. Not arguing that is enough- just asking if it is, really.

Re: 1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

Based on the answers you've already received, I guess I'm the dissenting opinion on this one.

3rd street: Given that this is a 1/2 game at PS, and given your position after a limp-in and a raise (which means the hand will be played at least three-handed), I think your call with your three diamonds is just fine. You even get a bonus when the BI also calls the raise making it a four-way.

4th street: Since it is a four-way hand and you are getting 5 to 1 on your money, I agree with you that calling one bet is OK here because of the combination of having a three-flush and three card straight.

5th street: Good bet.

6th street: Automatic raise.

7th street: If after you raised 6th street, seat #7 still bets the river you should just call. If seat #7 checks the river, you either bet or check, depending on what your gut tells you. (Although 9 times out of 10, I suspect your gut is going to tell you to bet.)

Re: 1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would toss in the towel on 4th when I bricked

[/ QUOTE ]Wasn't a total brick- I now have a 3 straight and a 3 flush, both of which are pretty live. Not arguing that is enough- just asking if it is, really.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's probably Ok Jeff for a 1/2 game. I was just stating what I would do in a higher game. I can probably be a little conservative sometimes too. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: 1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

Nevermind. I misread the action and didn't see that you made your flush on 6th. Why didn't you raise 6th?

Re: 1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

I´d be inclined to fold 3rd due to the low ante structure. Although it seems the table was not on the tight side, and the call is justified.

4th is fold imo. The pot is rather small to justify call.

Not sure about the bet on 5th. If he has aces he is probably going to raise you to get it heads up and to shut down the bring in.


Now it seems though, as he had completed with a pair lower than Qs or a 3 flush.
On 6th I would raise because the Bring in is drawing to beat the strenght you represented on the previous street.

Re: 1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why didn't you raise 6th?

[/ QUOTE ]Because I hate money [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

In the moment I felt like a raise might get the same number of bets in as a call, and that I could go for an overcall on both 6th and 7th rather than risk raising into a full house. I figured either way I get 2 bets from them, but overcalling is "safer". Now I think that logic was pretty dumb because

1) seat 2 might not call on the river
2) seat 2 might make a hand that beats me if I let him stay in for cheap.
3) seat 2 might call two bets anyway

Re: 1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If he has aces he is probably going to raise you to get it heads up and to shut down the bring in.

[/ QUOTE ]Players at 1/2 NEVER re-raise without aces up here.

My reasoning for betting there was that if I didn't, the aces would, so why not put the bet in myself since I have to call if he bets?

Re: 1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

That's Ok Jeff. We all miss betting opportunities from time to time. Hindsight is 20/20.

Re: 1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

Then it might be something I oughta stop doing.

In this hand though, in order to have have trip 5s you should have had started with some kind of straight draw on 3rd.
Im guessing players at 1/2 dont call raises with small 3 to a straight.

Then you could have hit 2 pair . And if he indeed has Aces he could semibluff you out of your hand. It would be difficult
for you to call unless you actually have caught a 4 flush and could a are semibluffing yourself.

Re: 1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Then it might be something I oughta stop doing.

[/ QUOTE ]Nah, 1/2 players are weak. Re-raising with aces here is the correct play- it's just that no one ever seems to do it.

Re: 1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

Well played Jeff. Very well indeed. Like a pro. There is nothing wrong with your game from the posts I've seen, All you need is experience.

Re: 1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

Third's a call. On fourth, yeah, you picked up a straight card, but a few of your straight outs are gone, and you're out of position. This is a marginal call at best. You can get away with marginal calls if you play well on the later streets. Playing well on the later streets includes raising when you make your damned flush already. Anyway, the bet on fifth is good. Obviously, the river is worth raising, but going for the over-call is OK, I suppose. But definitely raise sixth.

Re: 1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Playing well on the later streets includes raising when you make your damned flush already.

[/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I swear, I don't normally pull this crap- just in the last few hands that I've posted. Like I said, I usually only post hands where I think I messed up.

Re: 1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

I don't liek the call on 3rd. He is in early position. The Ace raises a limper so it is likely that he has 2 Aces, etc.

Re: 1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The Ace raises a limper so it is likely that he has 2 Aces, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]I am not playing this hand for high card strength. This will be at least a 3 way, possibly 4 way, pot with a fairly live multi-way hand.

Re: 1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

[ QUOTE ]
This will be at least a 3 way, possibly 4 way, pot with a fairly live multi-way hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you Jeff, as I explained in my original post in this thread.

Also, let me reiterate something I said in my first post: this is a 1/2 stud game at PokerStars. Inasmuch as there has been some discussion in this forum lately comparing stud games at PS with FTP, I think this is a good example of how you might play this hand differently at these two sites.

Because of the ante/BI/completion ratio at PS, I think your call on 3rd, Jeff, is correct, because you know at least the limper already in the hand is going to call the completion and so the hand is likely going to be at least three-way until 5th street. OTOH, if you were in this position at FTP calling the completion would be less correct because it would be less likely that the limper or anyone else would call the completion because of the larger ratio between completion and BI.

Re: 1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

Call on Third is marginal unless you know you will have company. If there had been very little folding on Third, then the call could be profitable.

Fourth is probably a fold. Your straight cards are compromised (8,3,4) and you risk a raise behind you.

Fifth, you have a strong hand, and you bet it like you're supposed to. I would be willing to get a lot of chips in the pot here.

Sixth, don't get tricky. Raise. You'll get a call from the original bettor, which puts the same amount of profit in the pot as an overcall, but you don't risk letting the third man catch perfect to beat you. If the third guy cold calls, so much the better. You shouldn't fear a boat here since you didn't get raised on Five, so be willing to go to war with the Aces if you get raised.

The river would probably be played differently if you showed more interest in your hand earlier. I suspect you'd be checked-to, and you'd bet. You can only call if raised though.

Re: 1/2 Too Loose? Too passive?
 

I don't see any of this as problematic.

Hello,Brad! If U will play this hand on 4th Str. in 1/2 game,...
 

there is no reason NOT to play the same way in a higher limit game.
If U fear being raised from behind,then U should NOT play 4TH in a 1/2 game either.
Or is it that the 1/2 players are more reluctant to play aggressively than the higher limit players?
If so,then U are probably correct in UR assessment.
Happy pokering,
SittingBull