drowned in the river again
 

Party Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, SB completes.

Flop: (4.00 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, Button folds.

River: (8.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB.

my thoughts on this were that since there was no action preflop, he probably had Ax, or Qx. Since i had a decent kicker, i had a good chance of winning.
My reraise on the flop was maybe wrong, giving an opponent better pot odds for a flush draw? although pot odds seem good for a draw anyway.
I felt i had to call on the turn as i still felt the most likely hand for him was Ax or Qx. Maybe i should have folded right there, since how could my hand improve? if he had a good chance of having an A or Q, then there was a 50% chance of him having Ah or Qh, so a flush would be no good to me

Re: drowned in the river again
 

looks good.

Re: drowned in the river again
 

I think ATo is good enough for a raise here. You really don't want to play multiway with this hand, and just getting the blinds is not a bad thing here. It also gives you a bit more info on the callers hands.

The flop raise is good, but I'm not sure on your thinking.

Raising gives your opponents much worse pot odds. If you just call they will be getting 6:1. With a raise you're making their odds 7:2.

Really, all I would be worried about on the flop is Q9, A9 or maybe 99. Hard to put BB on a hand as he had free play before the flop.

So, I think the flop raise is standard. When he 3-bets, I'm thinking two pair and that we are probably drawing. Any read on BB? Would he be this aggressive with A6-A2?.

The turn call really depends on the read as well. Taking a WA/WB approach and calling down isn't bad if he's capable of doing this with any Ace or just a Queen. If he hasn't gotten out of line I think the turn is the best place to fold, especially as the flush came in also.

Having button behind you makes me lean towards a fold also. His flop action really looked like a flush draw to me.

Once at the river, I call also. You have the 3rd nut flush (he can't have the Qh it's on the board).

Re: drowned in the river again
 

should we raise pre-flop?

i think so.

Re: drowned in the river again
 

[ QUOTE ]
should we raise pre-flop?

i think so.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh yeah. missed that. post is good though.

Re: drowned in the river again
 

PF is a little loose, but whatever. Rest looks good. Did you have any reads on villain (i.e. aggression?) You don't seem to be giving him much credit for going insane on the flop. I tend to think: 1. he has a set of 99's, in which case your flush is good, 2. he has A9, in which case your flush may be good, 3. he has Axs (TP + FD)

Re: drowned in the river again
 

I raise preflop and play it the same postflop.

Your reasoning sounds good too except for:
[ QUOTE ]
My reraise on the flop was maybe wrong, giving an opponent better pot odds for a flush draw? although pot odds seem good for a draw anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you just call the BB's bet, the button and SB are getting 6:1 to call which is fine for the flush. By raising, the button and SB are now getting 7:2 which isn't quite enough to draw to the flush on just the turn (although implied odds will cover the difference). You've definitely made it less profitable.

Re: drowned in the river again
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
should we raise pre-flop?

i think so.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh yeah. missed that. post is good though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see a lot of you advocating a raise with ATo if you're opening in MP. is it really profitable for you guys that way? My ATo usually either misses entirely or forces me to make difficult decisions.

Re: drowned in the river again
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
should we raise pre-flop?

i think so.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh yeah. missed that. post is good though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see a lot of you advocating a raise with ATo if you're opening in MP. is it really profitable for you guys that way? My ATo usually either misses entirely or forces me to make difficult decisions.

[/ QUOTE ]

limping after 3 folds is generally frowned upon. if your hand isn't good enough to raise, you shouldn't be playing it.

If youare at a table full of cold callers, you would be best to fold it, but at a tighter table, or a table where you have good reads, it can play well.

Re: drowned in the river again
 

thanks for all the responses.

I didnt really have any reads on the guy. turned out he had A2, Ace of hearts tho [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] . what does this information mean? he is loose aggressive? Do i want to be in pots with him , and calling him down all the time?

Also, not sure of the exact definition of cold calling. Does it mean calling a raise if everyone else in between has folded? or just calling a raise even if other people have also called

Re: drowned in the river again
 

Grunch.

Raise preflop! MP2 is no position where you should open limp and AT is no hand that you should open limp.

Flop and turn are good, on the river I might consider folding the 3rd nuts.

Re: drowned in the river again
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, not sure of the exact definition of cold calling.

[/ QUOTE ]
Calling cold means to call more than one bet without having put in money already on this street. By this definition, the blinds can never coldcall preflop.

Re: drowned in the river again
 

[ QUOTE ]
I see a lot of you advocating a raise with ATo if you're opening in MP. is it really profitable for you guys that way?

[/ QUOTE ]
I can't think of many (any) hands I would open limp with from MP2. Basically open limping invites good aggressive players behind to crush you. From MP2 (some would say MP1) any hand that's still playable with noone already in is worth a raise.

Limping is particularly bad with a fundamental TP hand like an offsuit A.

[ QUOTE ]
My ATo usually either misses entirely or forces me to make difficult decisions.

[/ QUOTE ]
Most decisions get easier when you raise preflop. This limits the number of people you're up against and therefore increses the likelihood that A high still is the best hand.

Re: drowned in the river again
 

[ QUOTE ]
turned out he had A2, Ace of hearts tho [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] . what does this information mean? he is loose aggressive?

[/ QUOTE ]
A2o or A2s? If he had A2o then his flop play surely was way too aggressive. With A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] I like his play.

Re: drowned in the river again
 

A2o

Re: drowned in the river again
 

[ QUOTE ]
I didnt really have any reads on the guy. turned out he had A2, Ace of hearts tho [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] . what does this information mean? he is loose aggressive? Do i want to be in pots with him , and calling him down all the time?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not really sure how loose you can determine he is from this hand since he did get a free look at the flop. If you can play some pots with this guy, it wouldn't be bad since it looks like he'll overplay hands and pay you off well if you hit.

Re: drowned in the river again
 

[ QUOTE ]
thanks for all the responses.

I didnt really have any reads on the guy. turned out he had A2, Ace of hearts tho [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] . what does this information mean? he is loose aggressive? Do i want to be in pots with him , and calling him down all the time?

Also, not sure of the exact definition of cold calling. Does it mean calling a raise if everyone else in between has folded? or just calling a raise even if other people have also called

[/ QUOTE ]
If you had raised preflop, you might have gotten him to fold in the BB, or at least make a mistake by calling the raise with a weak hand out of position.

Re: drowned in the river again
 

Grunch.

PF: This is either a raise or fold. You don't want multiway action w/ this hand so limping is not preferable. Encourage the blinds to fold.

I like the next two streets.
River: call. Villain may still think his two pair is good. We're probably beaten though.

Re: drowned in the river again
 

[ QUOTE ]
thanks for all the responses.

I didnt really have any reads on the guy. turned out he had A2, Ace of hearts tho [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] . what does this information mean? he is loose aggressive? Do i want to be in pots with him , and calling him down all the time?

Also, not sure of the exact definition of cold calling. Does it mean calling a raise if everyone else in between has folded? or just calling a raise even if other people have also called

[/ QUOTE ]

You certainly want to be in a pot w/ someone who will 3-bet a weak hand like A2.

We don't really know if he is LOOSE aggressive. That was his BB so he didn't volunteer any $$ preflop to play it. It's quite possible that your limp play w/ that hand convince BB that you didn't have an ace as most players would be open raising your hand. It could even be a possible TAG in that case.

This hand alone doesn't tell us enough about his style. If you see him make more plays like this with weak hands that he chooses to see the flop with, then you read becomes strengthened.

Coldcall: Calling more than one bet when it's your turn to act. If matters not if others are even in the hand. As a side note. One of the mistakes bad players often make is that they cold call too much. Miller or Sklansky wrote somewhere that you might only really do it once a session if you're playing correctly.

Re: drowned in the river again
 

raise preflop, rest is standard