3bet riv?
 

59/7/1.08 46wsd after 150.

PokerStars 10/20 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

River: (5 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero ?

f that this ones closer
 

he's pretty aggro like 35/22/1.7

PokerStars 10/20 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls, CO calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, CO folds.

Turn: (6 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls.

River: (8 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero ?

Re: f that this ones closer
 

negative

Re: f that this ones closer
 

Hand 1 - I like a 3bet if you can fold to a cap.

Hand 2 - Closer to a fold than a 3-bet. Weird line with anything but A4. Seems strange enough for me to call.

___1___

Re: f that this ones closer
 

#1 I would say yes, #2 I would say no.

Re: f that this ones closer
 

#1 - Yes. Could easily be a lower A (especially a lower two pair). I don't see a flush checking the scare card on river since he has to know if you don't have an A you'll check it through. I'd probably call a cap as well (b/c I'd cap it with my A4 - though I'd play differently on earlier streets likely). Then, I'd bite my lip when he shows you his 32 hearts

#2 - No. _____1______ has it.

Re: 3bet riv?
 

Just call.

This guy can have a flush. He can have a flopped straight, he can have a set and he can have 32o here. Many people may try to justify a river 3bet becuz hes unlikely to have some of the hands I mentioned based on the logic of the hand, but this guy is not a logical player so throw all ideas about reading hands out the window. Just call the river and hope you win.

Re: f that this ones closer
 

Crying call, no 3bet.

Re: f that this ones closer
 

I think these are both easy calls.

Re: f that this ones closer
 

i am weird because i'd rather 3-bet hand 2 than hand 1.

Re: f that this ones closer
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think these are both easy calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: f that this ones closer
 

I don't like a 3bet in either. Just call.

Neither of these villains appear to be total nutjobs and that's what it would take for me to 3bet either of these.

Re: f that this ones closer
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think these are both easy calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

In #1 I think you're ahead &gt; 66% of the time here pretty easily vs. a lot of 2pr hands, and should be able to fold to a cap (though it's close and the only reason I might consider calling is if I didn't feel confident in folding to a cap).

Rob

Re: 3bet riv?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Many people may try to justify a river 3bet becuz hes unlikely to have some of the hands I mentioned based on the logic of the hand, but this guy is not a logical player so throw all ideas about reading hands out the window.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a cop out. Just because a player isn't using 2+2 thought processes doesn't mean we can't make handreading conclusions about his actions. Even very bad players usually have a rationale for the plays they make.

Re: 3bet riv?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Many people may try to justify a river 3bet becuz hes unlikely to have some of the hands I mentioned based on the logic of the hand, but this guy is not a logical player so throw all ideas about reading hands out the window.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a cop out. Just because a player isn't using 2+2 thought processes doesn't mean we can't make handreading conclusions about his actions. Even very bad players usually have a rationale for the plays they make.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I said is not a cop out. When this guy check/raises the river he can have a flush, he can have a straight and he can have a set. Trust me.

Re: 3bet riv?
 

Of course he can have a straight or a flush or a set. He can also have two pair.

Enter handreading.

Re: 3bet riv?
 

1 is a 3 bet, 2 is a call.

in 1, it is unlikely he has a flush because he would have popped the turn. It is most likely the A improved him to a worse 2 pr. A straight is extremely unlikely because he probably would have folded 32 pf.

result
 

i just called in both. hand 1 i was shown As8x and and Ah3h in hand 2 and mhwg in both.

Re: 3bet riv?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Of course he can have a straight or a flush or a set. He can also have two pair.

Enter handreading.

[/ QUOTE ]

When someone doesnt play logically, handreading techniques break down. Trying to put a bad player on a hand when the hero has no line on his play is next to impossible. The hero needs to be greater than a 2-1 favorite to make this 3bet profitable since I presume hes calling a cap. Theres no realiable way to come to the conclusion that the hero is a 2-1 favorite, so calling the river raise is the prudent course.

Re: 3bet riv?
 

[ QUOTE ]
1 is a 3 bet, 2 is a call.

in 1, it is unlikely he has a flush because he would have popped the turn. It is most likely the A improved him to a worse 2 pr. A straight is extremely unlikely because he probably would have folded 32 pf.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is exactly how a 59/7 would play 32 from the SB, and postflop lines up perfectly as well. If it's A4 / A5 / 23 / rare flush / rare bluff then 3betting doesn't look so hot.

Surf

Re: 3bet riv?
 

H1. Jam it and fold to a cap. But will he call a 3B? Do it fast so he calls before he thinks about it.

H2. Can't 3Bang river with one pair. No no no. Not even TPTK. No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.

Re: 3bet riv?
 

[ QUOTE ]
But will he call a 3B?

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol good one

Re: 3bet riv?
 

Hand 1 has to be a 3-bet. There's no way that villian's not raising the turn with a flush, and there's no way that he's calling the turn and raising the river with a set.

The only hand I see beating us is 23, but I think A4 and A5 are very likely with A7 and some single ace hands being possible as well. Also, the flush possibility may be enough to keep him from capping when he does have the straight, so we really only need to be good about 60% of the time to 3-bet. (I don't 3-bet and fold to a cap against erratic players ever.)

The second hand really looks like two pair. I see no reason to 3-bet whatsoever. Occasionally, he'll show you a worse ace, but not often enough to make putting in another bet profitable.

Re: 3bet riv?
 

58/9 would open limp 32 from the sb? woudln't he fold that, esp offsuit?